ABS -vs- non ABS Vipers

[Stray Cat]

I am looking to pick up another Viper in the next 12-18 months (hopefully sooner).

My question is, How big a difference is there in driveability between the 2001 and 2002 ABS cars and the 1999 and 2000 non ABS ? Appreciate the input..

Regards,

John

 

[SylvanSRT]

if your looking for better brakes step up to a SRT-10 '03 or newer, the '01 and '02 were a better than the cars before them brake wise but are not even close to the brakes in the SRT-10 cars!!

 

[Stray Cat]

Thanks -

I have had a 2001 and a 2005. The SRT was fantastic. I am now considering another GENII (cost) and was just wondering if the 1999-2000 cars are that much different (besides pistons after 1999, Adjustable Pedals etc.) I am seeing the 1998, 1999 cars for decent prices and was just wondering if it's that much better to wait for the right 2001 or 2002.....

Thanks !

John

 

[SylvanSRT]

i had an '01 race yellow and a '02 graphite grey neither compare to my '03 SRT

 

[Martin]

From a driveability standpoint, there's no difference until you really need to stomp on the brakes and stop driving With the number of times I've locked up the inside tires on mountain roads, I'd definitely go with an ABS car if I could. The brakes on my GTS are great for track use - but for use on public roads that have some dirt and marbles every once in a while, I really wish I had ABS.

 

[REDSLED]

How often does one get to use ABS for street driving?
How would one know if the ABS engaged or not?

 

[C O D Y]

You will feel the pedal and it's easy to tell if the ABS is working. As for how often you use.... How often do you use the airbag? But when you do use it, you'll be REAL happy you had it.

And you only need it once to save you life or you from an acident. I have both ABS and Non ABS vipers and I would definatly take the ABS.

How often does one get to use ABS for street driving?
How would one know if the ABS engaged or not?

 

[Warfang]

I'd go with an 01 or 02... I don't think there's a difference between the two brake-wise. My 97's brake ***** compared to an SRT, but the 01-02 is a good compromise between the two.

 

[REDSLED]

And you only need it once to save you life or you from an acident.

I think that there is a false sense of security, in that people think that ABS will keep them from having an accident.

 

[Warfang]

I think that there is a false sense of security, in that people think that ABS will keep them from having an accident.

ABS will rarely save you from a fatal accident. Let's face it, if you're doing 130 and a semi suddenly appears before you and slam on the brakes... ABS means squat. Most likely it'll save you from killing a kid that runs out in the street during a rainstorm. The rest it mostly property issues. ABS saved me an increase in my policy twice, and I'm thankful, but it doesn't make me a better driver. Neither will traction control or any other nannytech.

 

[Lake Murray Viper]

If you can get ABS go for it but I would not make it a determining factor or pay much of a premium for it personally. The only time I have hit the brakes hard enough to engage ABS on a Dodge vehicle the ABS failed (did not engage) and was useless. I would much rather have the sound of the forged pistons and 98 - 99 cam than the ABS brakes.

 

[PDCjonny]

There are brake upgrades available like Tom's or Dave's that will make a significant improvement on Gen 2 brakes as well. Then you have the best of both worlds.

 

[Vreracing]

I've locked up the Viper twice in a 98GTS with nonABS and after market brakes. (Stop Tech 4 wheel).

Each time I got a little flat spot on the tire that seemed to take forever to work out.

 

[Purdue_Boiler_Viper]

I bought an 01 to get ABS. The main reason was to prevent flatspotting the tires when I track the car. Now I'm upgrading the brake calipers and rotors to Gen III to get SRT level braking.

 

[plumcrazy]

im glad i dont have ABS. i never really liked it on my other cars/trucks. only needed it 2-3 times and it was in the snow.

i like what dave has done with his big brakes for our gen2's using the SRT calipers

 

[Stray Cat]

Great info - thanks. I had read that under hard braking the pre-ABS cars could lock up the right front wheel. But truth be known, I have never done any what I would consider "real hard" driving on the street and I have never tracked the car although I am going to the SRT driving school and will then do the Viper Days when I get a car.

Also, didn't realize that the pre-2000 cars sound different. Knew about the Pistons but not the Cam. I just need to attend some shows where there are vipers and check them all out. Someone said Mopar Nationals coming up would be a good place. Would love another SRT but for the money right now I think the RT/10 is a good way to go. Then if I am lucky, keep the RT/10 and when prices of SRT's get in the strike range for me get one of those too.....I've been pairing down my old car collection as it's just too much time and upkeep. Both of my Vipers required Oil Changes and detailing..... that's it.

Thanks,

John

 

[C O D Y]

I have had many vipers. My '02 GTS sounds WAY better driving than my 97. However, the 97 sounds better at idle. Most would not be able to tell, but I do get more comments about how good the exhaust sounds on the 02.

Both have the SAME cat back.

Also, didn't realize that the pre-2000 cars sound different.

 

[ruckdr]

Are we missing the point of ABS, or the real advantage of ABS?
You can steer the car while the brakes are 'ABS locked up'.
While assisting in a driving school, where we use a water skid pad, we install a turn in the water braking area. Non-ABS car apply brakes in the water at about 50 mph, and have no chance of making the corner. ABS cars can negotiate the turn with ease.

Try it you'll like it.

Later,

 

[Simms]

A little off topic, but what seems to be better for track and street. Upgrading to SRT brakes, or a big brake kit from Stoptech?

 

[Purdue_Boiler_Viper]

Are we missing the point of ABS, or the real advantage of ABS?
You can steer the car while the brakes are 'ABS locked up'.
While assisting in a driving school, where we use a water skid pad, we install a turn in the water braking area. Non-ABS car apply brakes in the water at about 50 mph, and have no chance of making the corner. ABS cars can negotiate the turn with ease.

Try it you'll like it.

Later,

Good point!

 

[REDSLED]

A little off topic, but what seems to be better for track and street. Upgrading to SRT brakes, or a big brake kit from Stoptech?

I have both and hands down the SRT Brake upgrade is a better value.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Some of you guys need ABS.

In all my life I have only emergency activated ABS twice. Once because I missed a turn (no real emergency) and another to save me from a fenderbender. Like Warfang said, if you are going fast enough to kill yourself or somebody else ABS aint gonna save anybody. And if you are driving through a residential too fast to apply the brakes and turn when some kid runs into the street then start driving the speed limit.

As for a track car, I can't see why anybody would want ABS other than to keep up with the cheat...um, I mean the other ABS cars. F1 got rid of it years ago. NASCAR never had it. Indy doesn't have it. The Porsche 997 doesn't have it.

 

[REDSLED]

As for a track car, I can't see why anybody would want ABS other than to keep up with the cheat...um, I mean the other ABS cars. F1 got rid of it years ago. NASCAR never had it. Indy doesn't have it. The Porsche 997 doesn't have it.

Exactly Chuck!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Yes, ABS works in a turn, but yes, brake kits still make a huge difference because the OEM system was so bad.

Toot, toot. A really basic, low budget system can bring the braking from a dismal 0.8 G's to over 1.0 G's, so what does that say about the factory choice? The discussion about ABS or brake kits is over a small difference when compared to the performance of the original system - anything is better.
http://forums.viperclub.org/showthread.php?t=579342&highlight=deceleration

 

[GR8_ASP]

One very siggnificant advantage an ABS car has (from the factory) is brake bias that is proportional to what the car needs most the time. It can then use thye ABS to prevent premature rear lock-up.

Without ABS a stock car has so much front bias the rears work very little. What Tom has done with more rear bias is great in the after market. Unfortunately OEMs cannot do that for fear of rear lock-up in higher speed wet driving conditions.

So whether you actually engage ABS or not you are taking advantage of that benefit. Note race cars are set up for much more neutral braking and do not gain in that way.

 

[SylvanSRT]

i disagree ABS is a good thing many times i have had it operate on the track, a completely dry track and it keeps the tires from locking up and still allows steering inputs(avoiding flat spots and loss of control). I do not believe that there are many drivers out there who can out brake the ABS sys on the SRT and the ones that can are probably driving F1

 

[luc]

Don't take it personally but, if you need ABS not to flat spot your tires on a track, the problem is not the brakes but the driver skills ( or more exactly lack of it).

I agree 100% with Chuck, ABS do not belong on a race car, nor traction control, nor any other driver aids.

Racing is about driver skills and braking is one of the most important skill that a driver must have since a major part of passing is done under braking.

Sylvan:
The reason your ABS is on so often on the track is simply because you use your brake pedal as a on/off switch knowing that the ABS will do it's job.
If you were to dis-able your ABS, you will certainly be slower at the beginning but you will learn a lot more about car control,weight transfer,treshold braking, tires feedback,etc

Luc

 

[C O D Y]

On the track you KNOW when the corners are coming up.... On the street you never know what's going to happen!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I do not believe that there are many drivers out there who can out brake the ABS sys on the SRT and the ones that can are probably driving F1

But nobody is debating which is faster.

 

[SylvanSRT]

when i say many times its always at the end of a particular straight and now where else on the track i usually drive on. i feel it allows me to gain higher speed on the straight and go deeper into the corner. I look at as another tool, better tires, or better shocks, ect...

it allows shorter stopping distance i dont see any issue. poeple are not screaming for cars to go back to carberators and get rid of fuel injection