ACR Radiator Hose Collapse Video....

[FikseGTS]

Had my car on the dyno again at the South Florida Dyno day, took this video showing the radiator hose collapsing under load....

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYfmcfd_Ec0[/media]

Anyone locate a hose upgrade for this?

 

[bluesrt]

put a spring in it- go to a napa or some what and get one- leave a 2 inch gap at the ends.

 

[BennyBad]

that *****,

 

[Nader]

Wow. I cant believe the engineers could miss that.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Thats sad.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Unbelievable. You should make sure Herb sees this. They need an engineering change on that hose. I wonder if my 06 does that.

 

[ViperGeorge]

What actually causes the collapse? Is the water pump so efficient that it creates some kind of vacuum? Do previous Gen Vipers have the spring already installed or do none of them have one?

 

[Art 138]

I was there and saw it happen to Ray's 08 and FskeGTS'.....Doug Levin (DLM) said that one of the reason these cars heat up so much when tracked....there should be a fix and Fiat/Dodge should do it at their cost IMO.......it compresses about half way up, so if you fit a spring into it you need go 3/4ths of the way up......

 

[Coloviper]

They put springs on the cargo van's lower rad hose, so surprising they never caught this. Seems like a very simple recall fix to protect the engine. I don't track mine, but those long runs up and down the Eisenhauer Tunnel could have the same effect. Let us know once you have something worked out.

I know on the Saleen S351s they actually splice in an aluminum pipe so you are only using the front and back parts of a rad hose. That works well, though the actual look is a bit disjointed. An actual aluminum pipe (painted black) with the ends having rad hose with that hose-clampLESS system incorporated would be the cats "meow". Sure someone is creative out there.

 

[cash84]

I never heard any cars have spring on the upper hose. But yes the lower hose has a spring to prevent what it is just doing on the upper hose. It should be actually creating pressure in the hose when its hot which probably also helps it from collapsing. I'd go to the dealer have them check it there's something wrong.

 

[MTGTS]

What actually causes the collapse? Is the water pump so efficient that it creates some kind of vacuum? Do previous Gen Vipers have the spring already installed or do none of them have one?

There's been lots of dyno's done on earlier Gen cars so I would think we would have heard about this before if it was a problem.

 

[Darbgnik]

Would this be a Gen 3 and 4 problem, or just Gen 4?

 

[Art 138]

Would this be a Gen 3 and 4 problem, or just Gen 4?

When I dyno'ed my o4 Mamba at the same place with the Club a while back I did not notice the tube flexing...but then Gen IIIs came with a protective cover and Gen IVs have an exposed hose....probably why its noticeable....

 

[SublimEd]

These cars don't have reverse flow cooling do they?
Thanks,
Ed

 

[WILDASP]

I know I've seen this brought up before - I just can't remember which forum it was in. As I recall it's a Gen 4 issue, and the suggested fix was a spring in the radiator hose. Wonder why there hasn't been a recall on this?

 

[redtanrt10]

Fikse, I think you posted this in the late summer too? At a club event in July, mine collasped on the 3rd pull at DC. I think Dan had never seen this happen till then. Lot's of guys out here put a spring in the upper hose to correct. It would be nice if Dodge did a TSB to correct and let the dealers do the install with a factory hose and spring. Mike

 

[jcaspar1]

Wow! That's some great water pump!

 

[VicTxV10]

My 06 does this. I noticed it when I was adjusting the throttle cable/blades after installing a BBK throttle body. Someone told Xvipers sells an aluminum pipe fix.

 

[Newport Viper]

Recall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GDog]

While a spring is one solution, may I suggest switching to silicone rad hoses? I've gone through this with my 300ZXTT at the track. It's common problem on the 300Twins with most guys running either full silicone hoses or a hard pipe centre section and silicone connectors. The effect is a cooling system that is able to keep working under load when you need it.

 

[ViperGeorge]

I can only think of two ways for this to happen. First off liquid cannot be compressed, air can. Given this the hose should only be able to flatten out as shown in the video because the cooling system is not full and has an air bubble in it or because the cooling system has built up enough pressure to override the pressure cap and force fluid into the overflow tank.

Does anyone else know how the hose could compress if the cooling system is in fact full?

 

[Art 138]

While a spring is one solution, may I suggest switching to silicone rad hoses? I've gone through this with my 300ZXTT at the track. It's common problem on the 300Twins with most guys running either full silicone hoses or a hard pipe centre section and silicone connectors. The effect is a cooling system that is able to keep working under load when you need it.

I looked at the Snake-oly ones (Silicone tubes) but if the same thickness of the smooth tubes(intake) I bought from them, don't know if that will work any better...

GBatejan "Quote..Does anyone else know how the hose could compress if the cooling system is in fact full?

From what I saw appears a very strong draw by the pump on the top side and inability of the radiator to sufficently supply fluid (coolant) in proportion to the force of the pull by the pump....

 

[ViperGeorge]

I looked at the Snake-oly ones (Silicone tubes) but if the same thickness of the smooth tubes(intake) I bought from them, don't know if that will work any better...

GBatejan "Quote..Does anyone else know how the hose could compress if the cooling system is in fact full?

From what I saw appears a very strong draw by the pump on the top side and inability of the radiator to sufficently supply fluid (coolant) in proportion to the force of the pull by the pump....

But if the cooling system is completely full how does the hose collapse given that water cannot be compressed? If the hose collapses and the system is full the water that was in the hose has to go somewhere. Did you notice a sudden increase in the level of the overflow tank by any chance? Assuming the system was full then squeezing the hose would have to force coolant out of the overflow but this can only happen if the pressure in the system suddenly exceeds the cap's rating. If the system was not totally full then I suppose the hose could collapse and cause the air to compress.

 

[Copperhead245]

This is not new (not just a Gen IV issue). I posted the same thing (with video) in March 08:

http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...adiator-hose-hi-rpm-cold-nearly-collapse.html

Ron

 

[ACR steve]

If it is flattening but the flow rate does not change then there is no issue. What has to be determined is if the flow rate has changed .

 

[fireball]

I've never had a heat issue, but just the same - if there's a problem it should be fixed.

Do one of our esteemed vendors have a fix for this?

Question though. Has anyone ever had an overheat because of this? Was air in the cooling system the cause of this?

Greg

 

[TrackAire]

In a previous life, I used to sell and rent water pumps (from small hand carry units to giant towable units).

My guess is there has to be a little air in just about any system....it can literally be a few cubic inches of air.

One thing that really caused problems was cavitation (could be from various causes). If our hoses are collapsing, are the pumps cavitating? This causes air bubbles to be frothed into the coolant (not good for heat transfer), bad harmonics (think of a propeller half out of the water and spinning), etc.

Hopefully SRT will chime in and let us know if this is a serious long term issue.

George

 

[Shandon]

I had this exact issue happen to me on the dyno when I used the replacment cap with the diode that replaces your coolant cap. I put the factory lid back on and the problem went away. Be sure that the factory lid is on the coolant tank!!!!!

 

[ROCKET62]

I had this exact issue happen to me on the dyno when I used the replacment cap with the diode that replaces your coolant cap. I put the factory lid back on and the problem went away. Be sure that the factory lid is on the coolant tank!!!!!

Sounds like Shandon is on to something here. The service manual states to check the pressure cap if hose compression is noticed. May also be worth opening the bleeder valve to ensure there is not air trapped in the system (manual also states to open the bleeder when refilling the coolant when completely drained.) The other thing to check would be the thermostat. On a cool engine or a slow thermostat, the thermostat may not be completely open leading to this situation.

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

I can only think of two ways for this to happen. First off liquid cannot be compressed, air can. Given this the hose should only be able to flatten out as shown in the video because the cooling system is not full and has an air bubble in it or because the cooling system has built up enough pressure to override the pressure cap and force fluid into the overflow tank.

Does anyone else know how the hose could compress if the cooling system is in fact full?

Some time ago, I had mentioned the hoses were in fact collapsing. In theory, the water is not being "compressed," rather it's being "displaced." Without going into full detail (and everyone running out to purchase internal springs, caps, etc...), here's what needs to happen:

The cars are being tested on a dyno; a "controlled environment." The dyno's "stand-in" external fan is being placed in front of the car to cool the radiator's water causing the vehicle's cooling system thermostat to close. We need to test with a "restricter" instead of a thermostat which will represent full flow at operating temperature to help gather more viable data.

Sincerely,
Doug Levin