ACR vs. Katech Z06 Clubsport

[SnakeBitten]

Duh, I meant head to head. I'm just surprised no one has gotten the two fastest production cars on the same track on the same day just yet. Magazines would fly off the shelves.

Maybe GM has something to do with that lol.j/k..I remember when the C6 Z06 came out and when the 08 Vipers came out the mags wasted no time pitting them in several head to heads against each other.... Quite surprised that they cant come together yet.

 

[Disturbed]

Nice read....wonder how many miles it took them to reach the 242mph in that 1020hp Audi? We got Supras hiting that in just a mile over here lol...Im sure if someone can figure out how to plant those 1500 ********** horses and monster torque to the ground safely, the Viper would take a dump on the competition.

The answer is simple. Dry sump, make the power higher in the rev range. You will have less tq. A pushrod engine with good valve train is fine to run a 8500-9000rpm. That way you can have your 2000rwhp and 1500rwtq

 

[Disturbed]

Maybe GM has something to do with that lol.j/k..I remember when the C6 Z06 came out and when the 08 Vipers came out the mags wasted no time pitting them in several head to heads against each other.... Quite surprised that they cant come together yet.

It's ok, they will have to do it soon to sell more mags. GM will not be able to afford to pay off CD as they are broke.

 

[SnakeBitten]

The answer is simple. Dry sump, make the power higher in the rev range. You will have less tq. A pushrod engine with good valve train is fine to run a 8500-9000rpm. That way you can have your 2000rwhp and 1500rwtq

Sounds like a Supra minus the dry sump part. Spinning 9k in a massive 8.4 V10 would be sweet and expensive. Would love to hear what that sounds like with an open exhaust.

It's ok, they will have to do it soon to sell more mags. GM will not be able to afford to pay off CD as they are broke.

Lol thats what they went to Washington for. Need a bail out just to pay off C&D...

 

[bluestreak]

It's ok, they will have to do it soon to sell more mags. GM will not be able to afford to pay off CD as they are broke.

Um, well isnt Chrysler broke too. GM may be brok-er, but they are both hurting.


If both the ZR-1 and ACR beat the Clubsport by 1.5-2 seconds, it will be pretty close when the two meet. It's going to be a good one.

I will say that GM must be avoiding the test because the ZR-1 is almost certain to lose, but I'd bet it wont be more than a couple seconds on the normal tracks.

I'll bet on the ACR being an average of 1.5-3 seconds faster on the 2.5 or more mile tracks.



Edit: In looking at the Data, how does the ACR end up 13 and 14 mph slower as min MPH in segments 1 and 2? That seems unfathomable for that much of a difference in any corner on any track. Especially over an ACR. The ACR won, but if those stats are true, something isnt right (meaning time gap should be bigger).

 

[ACRBruce]

The article did point out brake fade is a weak point of the ACR and quoted Erich in saying future ACR's will use pads from the Comp Coupe, so I wonder if that change has happen already? On current cars, then the fix would be Mintex, fluids and SS lines?

 

[Grant]

The article did point out brake fade is a weak point of the ACR and quoted Erich in saying future ACR's will use pads from the Comp Coupe, so I wonder if that change has happen already? On current cars, then the fix would be Mintex, fluids and SS lines?

SS lines aren't going to help fade, but the stock pads on the ACR are really as good as I've used. Practically no OE pads are suitable for track use, but the Viper's seem to work. I know a lot of people like to upgrade to race pads ASAP, but I think with some good ducting (which is cheap and not a consumable) the OE pads might work pretty damn well.

The fade they mention was the pedal getting longer, which indicates fluid fade. In other words, there wasn't good, fresh brake fluid in there. The Clubsport had (likely fresh) Motul 600, which isn't going to fade.

I use Castrol SRF in my ACR (put in by Mark J), which lasts quite a bit longer than Motul. I've done 4 track days with the car so far, and I'm still on the original fluid.

 

[Grant]

If both the ZR-1 and ACR beat the Clubsport by 1.5-2 seconds, it will be pretty close when the two meet. It's going to be a good one.

C&D had the Clubsport being 0.6 slower than the ZR1's 1:24.9 lap, but if the Clubsport is really 2,915 lbs, I really doubt the ZR1 is faster. I'm sure the ZR1's OE tires are great, but they aren't going to be as great as PS Cups with some heat into them on a car 450 lbs lighter. I think its more likely that C&D wasn't pushing the Clubsport like the other cars, and/or didn't give it as much seat time.

They only had it being 1.5 seconds a lap quicker than the base Z06. Give a stock C6Z to LG Motorsports, tell them you want it road legal with PS Cup tires, and they'll hand you something more than 1.5 seconds faster than what you started with!

Edit: In looking at the Data, how does the ACR end up 13 and 14 mph slower as min MPH in segments 1 and 2? That seems unfathomable for that much of a difference in any corner on any track. Especially over an ACR. The ACR won, but if those stats are true, something isnt right (meaning time gap should be bigger).

Its probably the driver. Reviewers don't have a lot of time with the cars, and typically don't want to wreck them. The driver may just be more confident with one car than the other. That data isn't very useful unless you have some software to browse it, though.

 

[eucharistos]

thanks for the scan simms

 

[bluestreak]

C&D had the Clubsport being 0.6 slower than the ZR1's 1:24.9 lap, but if the Clubsport is really 2,915 lbs, I really doubt the ZR1 is faster. I'm sure the ZR1's OE tires are great, but they aren't going to be as great as PS Cups with some heat into them on a car 450 lbs lighter. I think its more likely that C&D wasn't pushing the Clubsport like the other cars, and/or didn't give it as much seat time.

They only had it being 1.5 seconds a lap quicker than the base Z06. Give a stock C6Z to LG Motorsports, tell them you want it road legal with PS Cup tires, and they'll hand you something more than 1.5 seconds faster than what you started with!


Its probably the driver. Reviewers don't have a lot of time with the cars, and typically don't want to wreck them. The driver may just be more confident with one car than the other. That data isn't very useful unless you have some software to browse it, though.

I agree, on paper, that clubsport should beat the ZR-1 easily. Better tires, better wiehgt to power, and considering the Z06 isnt all that far behind the ZR-1, just a Z06 on coilovers with MPSC should run toe to toe with the ZR-1.


But if you look at the diagram, in segments 1 and 2 there has to be some turns in there that are as slow as 30-40 mph or so, and you're telling me the ACR is 13 and 14 mph slower on the slowest parts of those sections than the Corvette.

That is utterly rediculous!!!!!!! Minimum speed over a segment would be hard to acheive 13 mph for a ACR over a BMW M3. So there is no way the clubsport is going 13,14 mph faster on any part of the track than the ACR. Even with brake fade, unless they were completely gone.

The ONLY way that is possible is if the ACR was stuck in traffic, and guaging the comments about passing the Porsche, I'm assuming there was traffic on the track.

But I smell foul.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Well as a fyi Katech said the ACR got the only clean run, free of traffic on the track, so the ACR was able to put in a much faster lap. All the Clubsport laps were in traffic and both cars times were near identical on the laps with traffic. He said they didnt mention any of that in the article. Sounds to me like both vehicles left alot on the table. Rematch time.

 

[bluestreak]

OMG, they used traffic laps to make a comparison? Wow.

Either way, if the ACR was clean lapping, there is still no way the Clubsport should have been that much faster on any point on the track.

We are talking a point between turn in and apex. I just dont see 13 mph difference at any point in the track other than a straight being possible between cars of this caliber. And they are too close in accelration even for that.

I'd like to see some in car vids of these laps, something isnt adding up.

 

[Grant]

bluestreak, many mag reviews seem to show disparities like this. Look at C&D's review of the GT-R vs. Z06 vs. 997TT. The GT-R had cornering speeds over 10 mph higher than the other cars in some sections of the track, while being nearly identical in others.

Though the huge difference of relative speeds and the speed over distance graph (zoom in on it) makes me think it was GPS error.

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

Well as a fyi Katech said the ACR got the only clean run, free of traffic on the track, so the ACR was able to put in a much faster lap. All the Clubsport laps were in traffic and both cars times were near identical on the laps with traffic. He said they didnt mention any of that in the article. Sounds to me like both vehicles left alot on the table. Rematch time.

Of course they said that. The point is that the ACR won again. Dont get me wrong the Vette was well built but it just wasnt as well engineered as the Viper was. They should of done more than just lighten the Vette if they wanted to compete with the ACR.