ACR without Air/Stereo, whats it worth?

[46hemi]

I am a new member on the site and I dont own a Viper but am very interested in purchasing one soon. As a long time classic Mopar, fan the Viper would be the only way for me to go. I guess its because I am nostalgic but I like the ACR because its production is even more limited. I must admit when looking at the production numbers for the ACR I am siomewhat baffled at how little were produced without the comfort/convenience package. Is it just because nobody wants a 90k car without it or are people just not interested in a car like this without some modern ammenities. Are the ACR's without air worth more? I see that only 4 were produced this way in 2001, should I expect to pay more for one if I could find it or less? Any advice would be great! Maybe the car is just undrivable without air (I can only imagine the "cockpit" would be almost unbearable in the summer). Due to the fact that I would only use it on the weekends in the nice weather the allure of having a car so rare, greatly outweighs the convienince of a radio and air conditioning. After all how many Hemi Cudas came with air and a radio that you could actually hear? I dont know about you guys but to me its just not that important. Thanks again, and this site is very helpful!

 

[Dixter]

I think that Dodge created the ACR to be a race car version
of the standard viper version.... that is, you would buy
an ACR to race on the track... thus there was no reason to
have a radio and air... but they also surmised that many
folks would like to drive the racer during the week and so
allowed the items to be added back in as an option if you
needed it.

I like the ACR very much, my only complaint is how they forgot
to put in the fog lamps. I'd have to add them back in or put
in the brake ducts from snake oyl products.

Any viper can be hot in the cockpit. Its sorta like putting
your a$$ in a frying pan and blowing cold air on your head to
make you " think " your cool.

I wouldn't have a viper without the air... the radio is not
the best and I don't play it much. Can't hear it much over
the exhaust tone anyway.

If your still looking for an ACR I'd go with one of the last
edition ACR's if you can find one when you get ready to buy.

 

[46hemi]

Dixter,
Thanks for the reply, its appreciated. I can definitely understand why they would offer the ac and radio but I think it kind of goes against what they were trying to accomplish. Once again I guess I am outdated because I always come back to the muscle car era where bare bones were the street kings.

You recommend that I go with a final edition, is there any mechanical reason for it? Are the 2002's better than the 01's? It would seem to me that if its one without air I was going for the 01's would be my best bet. Also, when you say that you wouldnt buy one without air, does that mean its going to be completely unbearable without? Sorry for so many questions, its just that I really dont want to make a decision I am going to be real sorry over! thanks

 

[Joseph Houss]

Here's my take:

The ACR option was designed to offer SCCA "maximum potential" by offering upgraded suspension and lighter (?) wheels, plus the supposed deletion of fog lamps so that brake cooling could potentially be attached in that area. All to make the most "extreme" Viper for Stock SCCA classes.

Since most of our Viper racing guys had previous history in upgrading their existing cars, I believe most realized that it was actually less expensive to purchase a used Snake, and "adjust" equipment, rather than to start with a Viper that was set up good, but not necessarilly exactly the way they liked it. Additionally, most seemed not concerned about SCCA Stock class certification (although I know of a few that did purchase ACR's for that reason).

So, what ended up happening, is that many of the ACR's were purchased by Viper guys that just wanted something "a little different", and with the BBS wheels and special badging, that's pretty much what they got (as long as they ordered the comfort group). Also, dealers that ordered them for "in stock" inventory, didn't want to limit their potential market by NOT ordering comfort group.

Will the VERY rare ACR without comfort group be more valuable? That's hard to say. I guess time will tell.

....now, NEXT time around, things will be WAY different! as the competition coupe (although not street legal) is absolutely a out-of-the-crate, ready to rock, race car.

 

[Dixter]

I say the 2002 only because the ACR would be loaded with all
the goodies, very limited and red with white stripes that
make it even a more rare ACR and its the last of the last....

I think there maybe only one other ACR more rare...

that would be the dark blue one with silver stripes

 

[Joseph Houss]

I believe you mean the ONE OF ONE Viper Raffle Car - Viper Blue with silver stripes and ACR option.

 

[46hemi]

I still can't seem to make any sense behind it. If I truly wanted to race a Viper it would make much more sense to buy a late model at the cheapest price I could find, then proceed to make the best possible race car I could. Mileage or trim level wouldnt come into play. One with a blown motor would be even better because then I could build it just as I wanted. Can you really compete with a stock ACR at a serious level right off the showroom floor? Maybe you can, I must admit I am no expert on this level of racing. In my opinion the ACR package is somewhat of a "gimmick?" that they did to produce a desireable low production model. This is probably what draws me to it. I am a big fan of low optioned cars. Cars that were produced to be bare bones in an effort to make them the fastest. As history proves this theory usually dosent hold water because there is always some guy who builds a faster car out of nothing. I think the ACR came without air and radio for a reason, because thats how they wanted it ordered. When you add those features you detract from the intended version of the vehicle. Thats just my opinion and I make no claims of expertise. I am just astounded that so little were ordered that way. I know the dealers reasons why (they want to move the cars) but I need help on the Viper community's opinion. Its the enthusiasts who make the market and not the sales people. Again, I only mention this because I am a true Mopar fan who wishes he was born 10 years earlier!

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

46hemi,

Vipers run hot, the footwells get very hot, the sidesills are hot, the windshield and rear hatch let in a lot of sun, most have all black interiors and the windows are small and don't allow a lot of fresh air into the cabin.

That said - a Viper GTS without air would be great for weight loss - as you would be sweating the pounds away. No air in Houston would limit you driving to 2 months a year.

 

[JonB]

Didja know that "probably half" of the No-Air/No Stereo ACRs were dealer ordering mistakes? In fact, at least 2 sold orders resulted in D-C buybacks because (some) DEALERS did not understand the ordering process! So even tho 9-12 per year were "ordered" that way, far fewer were INTENDED that way. Fact. OOPS!!

What Joe said is a good analysis. Clarifying:

By the time Dodge put in the fog-light brake duct holes, Viper Days competitors had been-there-done-that and found that it does not work above 65-70 mph! That zone becoms an area of NEGATIVE pressure, sucking air out as air rushes past !

Then Dodge never supported some of the promised mods: Improved pan, better brake cooling, and no Neon-ACR like support program developed. SCCA restricted the Viper intakes badly, and then relaxed regs in 2000. Vipers did ok. SCCA Re-tightened them in 2001-02 and now SCCA T-1 is dominated by Z-06s.

Thankfully, a National-Champ-Top 3 Neon ACR Racer, and Friend-Of-VCA is now in charge of PVO-Team Viper and also Mopar. Performance !

Wanna know more? Call me. I just bought a new ACR and can compare it to 3 prevous Vipers I owned/own if you like...

 

[46hemi]

JonB,
The fact that there were orders that were messed up by the dealers doesnt surprise me one bit. As I stated earlier the salespeople (for the most part) do not really care about anything other than the sale.

I have to believe that when they decided to make the ACR package, they intentionally deleted the air and radio. As a matter of fact I think the fact that so little were oredered differently is reason for them not to produce it again. Joseph stated earlier the next comp group wont be street legal (a real comp group package) but that dosent eliminate the decision to produce the first series. When I first started reading about the ACR the fact that it had no air or radio was always mentioned as a feature of the ACR. If I could get a 01 (without) do you guys think I am goingto have problems selling it in the future? Jon, also thanks for the invitation to call. I definitely will to get some more advice!

 

[Jeff Torrey]

46hemi- I lasted a year without AC in my 92. I am adding it as soon as I can get the job scheduled. Short trips are fine, race days are great. Hot sunny days on long (3 hour) drives are very taxing. Good luck.

 

[46hemi]

It is certainly a tough call. I guess maybe I am too bent on the old school cars. I am involved in Mopar collectable cars (70 coronet 6-pak r/t, 71 hemi challenger, 66 hemi coronet, 70 440 challenger and 71 440 charger) and I would never even entertain a car with air. They just dont have the same allure as the bare bones street rods. I know these cars will probably never come close to the collectability of the muscles but I can't get over the rarity of the ACR without comf/conv. Maybe I need to take one out for a ride without the a/c and see how bad it is. I know the oldies dont get too hot but maybe these cars are another league all togher. I must say I am very torn!! Either way having a car that is 1 of 4 produced, I feel will always be somewhat special.

 

[Jeff Torrey]

Have you ever seen that commercial for NASCAR; Where the guy drives on a hot summer day with the windows up and the heat crankin' on high- "Have you got it bad?" That's what it's like.

 

[46hemi]

ViperJim,

Finally I get some support for no a/c! The radio thing dosent seem to be an issue with anyone (no sound sweeter than exhaust)! So I am left with should I buy the 01 ACR or just go and get a GTS.

If I buy an ACR the only way I would get it is without. I am not interested in building the ultimate street machine. Owning a Viper, in and of itself, is enough for me. Maybe its because I am such a Mopar nut but when you see or hear one its as if you no longer have conrol over your senses. You have to look, you have no choice. Its a beutiful car with an appeal that cant even be explained.

I do think that ACR's without comf/conv will be more desireable in the future. Not because they are faster or better, simply because there were so little produced. Actually as I stated earlier the ACR package is kind of a joke, but I do understand why they did it (at least I think I do?). Just my .02 cents. So I guess I still dont know what to do!! UGH!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I'll give you some support for no A/C, although I couldn't live without it. Jim's point about weight reduction is valid, but only if you're gonna race it.

If you want it for uniqueness it's a bad buy. Try justifying the rareness of an airless ACR to your woman as her hair goes flat. The next time you see her she'll be in a Camaro with some guy in a mullet. Even years down the road when the current Viper style is relegated to just poser events, those posers will want A/C.

Just because it’s unique doesn't mean its worth much. Every time I sit on the crapper the result is unique to the times before. It doesn't make it any more valuable.

 

[Snake Bitten]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck 98 RT/10:
Every time I sit on the crapper the result is unique to the times before.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must be registered for see images

 

[46hemi]

I wonder if thats what the guy said who ordered the 71 Hemi Challenger? Looks like he made the right call, huh? As far as a girl, who cares. If I am buying a 90k sports car to get a girl what does that say about me? I buy cars for the enjoyment to myself. I especially like cars that are rare. Air conditioning in a muscle car is like bringing a DVD player camping. Although in todays society its certainly understandable. Maybe you guys will luck and and they will add a navigation system on the 03's.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 46hemi:
Maybe you guys will luck and and they will add a navigation system on the 03's.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that's a little extreme for me Hem.

The broad is just an added pleasure. It wouldn't matter if it's a Viper, Vette, or Yugo, AC makes life a little more comfortable.

Like I said, if you're gonna race it or if hot hot hot doesn't bother you then go for it. But I don't think it will be worth more because of the exclusivity.

 

[Matt M PA]

Let me tell ya 46Hemi..I have been involved with Mopars and musclecars for a long, long time. Rare and desireable DO NOT always go hand in hand. There are many cars that were rare, and still have little collector interest. That said, if you want a non comfort group ACR...buy it. The reason few are built without it, is because very few people want it. In the future, this will still hold true. Talk to a dealer that has one without...and they will tell you how hard it was to sell. And to compare this to a Hemi Challenger is silly. Different time. If you could have ordered a Hemi WITH A/C..that car would now be worth much more than one without. Look at the car market (not the auction BS) and you will see that highly optioned cars bring the money. We will not see the likes of street legal MaxWedge lightweights again.

 

[George Farris]

46hemi,

Shouldn't you be 426HEMI???

 

[John ACR]

46Hemi,
The joke is ACR stands for Air Conditioning Removed.
ACR could also stand for A/C replaced.
Fact is without A/C the car is VERY HOT!
An owner of one of the 99's without A/C posed this question 2 years ago. He was told get A/C. He did not. When he got stuck in the rain with the windows up that summer he thought he was melting.
You can always remove the A/C for racing.
The comfort group is properly named.
Good luck.

 

[dadsvpr]

i have a dealer speced purposely ordered no comfort group car where the buyer wisely insisted the dealer added back in the air and the fog lights on the purchase order. i like having an original no comfort group acr because it's unusual, better yet i like have the dealer installed a/c even living next to the coast the car can get pretty toasty. personally i'm thrilled about my car, it's "correct" either way and wouldn't have ordered it any other way if i bought new.


Jason

 

[46hemi]

Wow!

I never realized I would stir such a controversy! First I can address the easy one. Indeed it should be 426hemi but I always figured that ones taken so I dont bother any longer. Maybe the 71' Hemi comparison is extreme. How about super trac pac? Or Bulge hood on a 70 Coronet? Or upping the ante for an R/T? Or insisting on the shaker hood for your 71' Challenger even though the wait was ridiculous?

Agreed that rare dosent always translate into more desireable, but wasnt the essence of this model the fact that it came without it? Also agreed that I wouldnt want to take a 71' Hemi for a 6 hour road trip in the Summer. Was that what it was made for? Wasnt it created strictly to compete with the other manufacturers cars on the street/strip of that era? I dont really agree that the high otion cars always bring the most $$. My brother owns a 71 Hemi Challenger with 3k miles radio and a/c delete. Am I to believe that car would be worth more today if it had air and a radio?

Matt you sound extremely knowledgable and as I stated earlier I am CERTAINLY not a Viper expert. My discussion began as perhaps my foolhearted notion that a car from today could encompass the feelings of the lightweight era. I thought that was what Dodge was going for with the ACR. Whether that was the reason or not, it certainly seems from this message board thats not what people today want. Maybe I should plunk my 80k down on a nice 70 HemiCuda. Radio and a/c delete of course!

 

[46hemi]

Jim,

I am sure you are correct I probably will. And when the originals come off they will be hermetically sealed with the skill of an egyption morgue worker. I am a bit zainy that way.

 

[Matt M PA]

46Hemi..if you have decided on a non air ACR..go get it. Make yourself happy..this is all that matters. Your brothers 3K mile Challenger is valuable partially because of the ultra-low mileage. But being a non-air Hemi does not make it rare....A/C WAS NOT available with the Hemi or 440-6. Everyone likes what they like, if you like a stripped car with few options, go for it. One of my former Superbirds was loaded with options, and in my opinion was more interesting because of this. We all forget that much like a Viper today, yesterday's performance cars were cars that were driven on the street, to work and play. I frankly think that an ACR is overpriced for what it is, especially considering the really rough ride (2001-2002) and deletion of foglamps. (Not even talking about the comfort group) You do get 10 more hp thanks to the filters and smoothies. In the end..get what you like..the heck with what anyone thinks!

 

[8AVETTE]

I say get what YOU want. But as a ACR owner and after 6 Vipers, last 2 were ACR's I like the ACR better.In the right color combo they are the rarest of all Vipers.You could buy all the options for the ACR separate and pay a little less but it still will not be a Factory production limited number Viper called the ACR. ALOT, NOT ALL will put down the ACR because they don't have one.When you buy a car like Viper GTS with stripes new for about $73k and you can get the more rare ACR for about $82k it's not that bad of a deal for what you get.SOME PEOPLE PAID THE MSRP FOR THE GTS AT $79K.I drove same year Viper's in auto cross GTS and ACR, Huge difference in the corners. GTS leaned very bad and ACR was very stable and a lot more fun.