An open forum for Roe Supercharged Viper owners/installers

[TFAST4U]

Thanks for getting things on a roll here. The problems I am having is miss fire code over and over again, a reading for the crank sencer reads zero at times. I talked with a Viper owner and Tech that is well versed with this system and I was told the following.

1. To buy retainers for the injectors that go on a gen 1 Viper, and thay will work on the Injectors now in my car. This should cure the miss fire codes.

2.Replace the VEC2 wiring harness including the littal black box. This may cure the zero reading from the crank sencer. If the sencer is bad the car will not run bottom line.

This same tech said that he had 2 cars at his shop with the same problems my car is having and he did this to the Vipers and there are no more codes or problems. If there is some one out there is having the same problems as me please let us know so we can get to the root of this. I will try the above to my car and see if it works. Thanks for your imput. I am positive this will be worked out.

 

[1TONY1]

TFAST4U.....Let us know the part number of the retainers when you get them. Everybody should do that to take care of problems before they start.

GTzVIPER.....I can see where it would be much better to have your 02 read all five cylinders. Whatever the cause of the richness in the back, if your o2 is not sensing those cylinders it won't compensate. The cars I have worked on read all five cylinders and while #8 might have been a touch richer than the front it was nothing like #10.

 

[GTzViper]

1TONY1, same here, plug #8 was not as clean as the rest of them but #10 was by far the worst.
The other side is running perfect. I would think #9 and #7 would have also shown signs of running rich if the o2s were the only problem.

 

[Sean Roe]

Regarding the rear plugs running richer in vacuum, read #21. We see people fixating on these rear cylinders running richer at a vacuum. I've explained to people how the air moves and why this occurs in vacuum, but not at boost. But, some don't seem to grasp the cause and continue believing it's the cause of a stumble or miss. A proper inspection of the plugs typically reveals they're firing, though they are dark. This is more of an issue depending on what headers are on the car and the location of the O2 sensor. One reason we suggest the other spark plugs is because the tips stay white and keep people from fixating on it.

99.9% of the time, the miss is the result of an injector plug that's loose or the major flaw we've found in the factory wiring system. That flaw and cure is not published above, but is in the actual sheet that went out to SC owners.

Tony, have you had any miss since you made the correction to the factory wiring harness as we suggested?

Here's why the rear cylinders run richer at vacuum. The air comes out of the blower, travels down and slightly forward. Excess air goes out the bypass and is recirculated to the inlet side of the Supercharger. The rear cylinders equalize when the entire plenum is pressurized (in boost), when the load is high.

On the injector connectors and how they cause a miss, see the reasons in the diagnostic guide. The stock connectors are not very good, but work ok as long as you don't mess with them too much. When someone who is not mechanically competent attempts to fix this by Supergluing the connectors to the injectors, it is not the answer. If it's such a problem, the simple cure is to replace the connector at the injector. MSD part # 2400 is a pack of 8 injector connectors with clips and 20 terminal ends. The packs cost about $11 each.

Basic mechanical principals still apply regarding a car, whether it's Supercharged or stock. It's not rocket science, but is beyond the scope of some individuals capability. Only mechanically capable individuals should install parts on their cars or attempt to do diagnostic work when needed (whether you have a battery going dead, window won't go up, engine has a miss in it, etc). Those who are not capable generally become frustrated and focus on the wrong areas when attempting to do something they don't have enough experience at.

Regards,
Sean

PS. I can design automotive parts and develop them, but won't attempt to tile the floor in my kitchen because I don't know enough about it.

 

[1TONY1]

Gtz.....Where can you relocate your o2 to ? I didn't understand where you were saying. There should be somewhere between the frame and where the pipe goes in the side sill to place it....you may have to extend the o2 wires but you NEED to be including the rich cylinders in your o2 sampling or the rear cylinders will be EXTRA rich. The other option is to run a leaner tune up than a car with normal o2 placement. A muffler shop should be able to put an o2 **** in both sides for $50 ...... I would also suggest an extra o2 **** in the same area on the drivers side for a w/b o2. This way when you dyno they will have a place for their o2.

 

[1TONY1]

Regarding the rear plugs running richer in vacuum, read #21. We see people fixating on these rear cylinders running richer at a vacuum. I've explained to people how the air moves and why this occurs in vacuum, but not at boost. But, some don't seem to grasp the cause and continue believing it's the cause of a stumble or miss. A proper inspection of the plugs typically reveals they're firing, though they are dark. This is more of an issue depending on what headers are on the car and the location of the O2 sensor. One reason we suggest the other spark plugs is because the tips stay white and keep people from fixating on it.

<font color="blue"> Agreed. Just because #10 plug looks like the inside of a tail pipe does not mean it is causing the miss. Does it mean something (mixture)is not not gyrating correctly....yes. Based on plug inspections at the dyno, under boost I think #10 is still richer than others but it is cleaning itself some. I need to try this with brand new plugs and zero idle time....that is the only way to say for sure</font>

Tony, have you had any miss since you made the correction to the factory wiring harness as we suggested?

<font color="blue"> My car has missed either at cruise or wot for over four months or more. Since I have made the mod/correction it has not missed at all. Hopefully this will continue. Everybody with the s/c needs to do this. FYI for others.... This mod addresses a possible factory issue and not necessarily a problem with the s/c or vec2 </font>


Here's why the rear cylinders run richer at vacuum. The air comes out of the blower, travels down and slightly forward. Excess air goes out the bypass and is recirculated to the inlet side of the Supercharger. The rear cylinders equalize when the entire plenum is pressurized (in boost), when the load is high.

<font color="blue"> I agree about the airflow out of the s/c but I am not sure about the bypass being the cause. It may just be due to the s/c airflow period. For those that don't know......I have installed a second bypass at the rear of my intake. Currently it is fully open (unrestricted) and the front bypass has a 3/4" (hole size) restrictor in it. In this configuration I can't say that I saw an improvement on the #10 plug. After the V10 Bowling Green race I will completely block the front bypass and see how it looks. You may ask.....how did you do that....PIA </font>


On the injector connectors and how they cause a miss, see the reasons in the diagnostic guide. The stock connectors are not very good, but work ok as long as you don't mess with them too much. When someone who is not mechanically competent attempts to fix this by Supergluing the connectors to the injectors, it is not the answer. If it's such a problem, the simple cure is to replace the connector at the injector. MSD part # 2400 is a pack of 8 injector connectors with clips and 20 terminal ends. The packs cost about $11 each.

<font color="blue"> Call me cheap but if someone buys 16 then mail a pair to three other guys so everyone doesn't end up with six extra. There was a post about just buying the clips a few months back....are the MSD connectors better than ours or they just have a clip (like the factory SHOULD have done) </font>

Those who are not capable generally become frustrated and focus on the wrong areas when attempting to do something they don't have enough experience at.

<font color="blue"> I don't think this was addressed specifically at me and I agree but, there are also some of us....even Viper techs that have been frustrated or as I call it "getting my a$$ kicked".

P.S. I can also install tile </font>

 

[GTzViper]

The place where all five cylinders come together has on the inside something called I think a resonator?? (not sure of spelling) It has the shape of a cone and I think it's job is to make the air flow smoother. The tip of the o2 would be in contact with this if I try to position it in what would be the ideal area for all five cylinders.
In perspective, I most definitely fall in the category mentioned above by Sean. I like to get under the hood but my mechanical knowledge is vary basic at best and although Sean spend huge amount of time on the phone helping me understand every detail, I know my limitations and I decided to let the Viper tec. solve the problem.

 

[TFAST4U]

Sean Roe. " 99.9% of the time, the miss is the result of an injector plug that's loose or the major flaw we've found in the factory wiring system" ". "When someone who is not mechanically competent attempts to fix this by Supergluing the connectors to the injectors, it is not the answer." This is Sean refering to me TFAST4U.

Well Sean when I talked to you the other day I was not told of "the simple cure is to replace the connector at the injector. MSD part # 2400 is a pack of 8 injector connectors with clips and 20 terminal ends. The packs cost about $11 each."

If I had know this than I would of NOT of Superglued the injectors.

Well I guess that's why I had YOU put the s/c on my car. Because YOU said here:

" Basic mechanical principals still apply regarding a car, whether it's Supercharged or stock. It's not rocket science, but is beyond the scope of some individuals capability"

" Only mechanically capable individuals should install parts on their cars or attempt to do diagnostic work when needed"

"Those who are not capable generally become frustrated and focus on the wrong areas when attempting to do something they don't have enough experience at"

And that's WHY I took the car back to you a few weeks later to resolve the same problems. Because " Only mechanically capable individuals should install parts on their cars or attempt to do diagnostic work when needed"

Well with that said My car is still the same, and at a another tuner you refered me to to see if THAY can fix the problems.

Now on the o2 thing. I to have relocated the o2 to read ALL 5 cyliders " no Superglue " We welded the bungs in after the collector flange.

 

[1TONY1]

GTz....With your headers you may have to do the o2 bungs tight to where the pipe goes into the side sill. It does seem like another pipe sticks into the collector or something along that line. What it will do for you is lean the mixture some.

 

[TFAST4U]

Sean Roe, GTZ Viper, Utah Viper, 1TONY1, MES. Thanks for your help on line and off. SUN RA KAT where are you? Give us an update. I wonder what's up with the other 70 or so Roe s/c cars. Give us an update here. Looks like 1TONY1, and Utah Viper are puting down some great numbers on the dyno with the Roe s/c. I will have updates on my 97 GTS over the next few weeks. I can't wait to see how things are going to go at the v-10 Nationals in Bowling Green. I wish all good luck, and remember..HAVE FUN

 

[Jerry Dobson]

We had a bone stock(except for smooth tubes and filters) 2000 RT/10 with a Roe SC run 546.3 RWHP and 558.1 RWTQ running 92 octane pump gas.

 

[Joe Dozzo]

Finished install myself last week. Two relatively minor installer initiated (me!) hiccups - clipped an injector o-ring which lead to a minor leak (replaced damaged o-ring with one from a stock injector) and inadvertantly left a plug wire off for a bit (tinged driver silver side sill a bright orange - ouch!)

My tip: For step #9, disconnecting plugs from the coil pack - rather than try and reach down and unplug the connectors - AFTER sliding the dastardly red locking clip - simply unbolt the coil pack (3 bolts and bottom two only need be loosened as the coil pack bracket is slotted) so you can actually see what you are trying to do.

http://vca2.viperclub.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2280

http://vca2.viperclub.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2281

Best numbers from 4 pulls were 562 hp and 588 ft-lbs on car with headers, stock throttle bodies and stock cats. HP numbers ranged from 556 to 562.

Still needs a bit of tuning with VEC2 fuel and timing for my altitude (~6000 ft), but that's among the many values / benefits from the VEC2. In fact, new cards arrived earlier in the week (thanks for the great turnaround Sean) and I really like the changes Sean implemented for me. I've also upgraded plugs per Sean's recommendation and fixed factory wiring flaw (additional ground wire).

Will have new numbers after local Dyno Day 17 May. Still looking for that magical "600"!

 

[1TONY1]

Today I did my second autocross with the s/c. I kicked butt both times. I was only beat by the formula type carts for fastest time of the day both times. Doesn't matter if it's a long course or tight course. Would this work with a centrifical or turbo ??? I don't know but this s/c works !!!
The first one had other Vipers and zo6's
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=515258

Todays didn't have any high powererd cars but it was a tight course with plenty of light cars: http://www.rivergate5speed.com/scca/soloii/r030427.html

Yes I had the Kumhos on ......but there were plenty of cars with stickys.

 

[onerareviper]

Thank God!!! I am actually starting to see VALUABLE feedback before installing my Roe SC'er. I'm glad to see this thread is beginning to contain meat &amp; potatoes, instead of fluff. IF ANYONE HAS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION or TIPS PLEASE SHARE!!! Remember, many of us still need to install the unit, and the things you think are minor tweaks, etc... that you have learned through trail &amp; error, are major time savers for the rest of us! I'm sure we are all trying to achieve the same goal - increased HP with maximum reliability/drivability!!!

* Keep the thread alive!

 

[1TONY1]

If I remember correctly the injector/coil harness does not have to be disconnected at all, just lay it back on the windshield. If it is dirty and needs to be cleaned then remove it to clean.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I now have 2,000 miles on my Viper since the Roe Supercharger was installed. Sean has been notified by me of every incident where things weren't perfect and he either had the solution already or got a solution for the problem in a very short period of time.

The pre-detonation problem was band-aided with the MSD Retard Box and my VEC1 until Sean came out with the VEC2. The VEC2 totally eliminated any predetonation.

I next started to throw engine check codes for multiple cylinder misfire and cylinders #9 &amp; #10 misfiring and most of all cylinder #10 misfiring. Sean came up with the solution of regapping spark plugs #9 &amp; #10 and changing the crankcase ventilation system back to stock. He later came up with a ceramic reducer that fits in the blow off tube. And then he came up with a better type of spark plugs. Engine check codes for cylinder misfiring of any kind have never come back.

I started to get engine check codes for cylinder bank #1 and #2 running lean. I desribed the conditions where I was driving - low to lower mid RPMs - and Sean had me send my VEC2 program cards back to him and he reprogrammed the low to lower mid RPMs to get a 1% boost in fuel. I got the cards back and reprogrammed my VEC2 and it felt like I had gotten a nice seat-of-the-pants boost in that RPM band. And for over 700 miles since then I have not had any engine check lights come on.

I started to notice a momentary cut out of the engine for about 1/10 second, usually under moderate accelleration that would occur at random - sometimes 300 miles would pass before a momentary cut out was experienced. Sean said this problem appears to be limited to the late model creampuffs ('01 &amp; '02) that have a different factory PCM than the earlier Vipers. Sean came up with grounding the VEC2 seperately which worked until the next time the momentary cut out happened. Meanwhile, Sean was coming up with a new VEC2 that would eliminate totally the momentary cut out. Sean has just sent me the new, improved VEC2.1 this afternoon (I think he still calls it the VEC2 - I call it the VEC2.1) and I should be getting it back in a day or so and will see if perfection has finally been achieved.

We are all explorers of the Sean Roe Supercharger System - and so is Sean - a lot of new uncharted territory is being mapped out and declared safe. I think the time to call in the settlers and tell them it's safe to settle here is close at hand, the territory is now safe for women and children...

...except my wife and daughter are afraid of my Viper's power - even when I drive the speed limit, which is most of the time, because it sounds as powerfull as it is. And that can easily scare people.

 

[TFAST4U]

Joe Dozzo, good for you. The install looks great. Pleease keep us up to date on thing that may come up or if nothing comes up. I bet you love the POWER!

Jarry Dobson, what D CARD was used when the "2000 RT/10 with a Roe SC run 546.3 RWHP and 558.1 RWTQ running 92 octane pump gas" ?

SUN RA KAT, Thanks for the phone call. I amd glad you had fun at Viper Days. Nice to you do 150 mph over and over again. Glad you were in a safe place to do it.

On another note I just read what you have been doing with the Viper since your Roe install. Thanks for the info. It will help all of us out there. I know we are getting close. I hope to post what we are trying on my 97 GTS so it can help others and I can get back to street racing. I got the itch so bad for speed today I went out and got a brand new GSXR 1000 good for 9.39 at 150 in the 1/4.

I just have to say I really enjoy reading ALL the subjects at VIPER CLUB. I, as others have learned so much from peaple I do not even know. Thanks for all your help

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I sent my VEC2 to Sean Tuesday afternoon for the upgrade to the new improved VEC2 and I got it back today (Thursday).

Here is the e-mail I just sent Sean -

Hi Sean!

Thanks for the quick turnaround on the new, improved VEC2.

My car starts about twice as fast as it did before. After a few rough running miles the PCM learned how to drive with the VEC2 and everything smoothed out. It feels even smoother running than before.

Is it possible that I now have more power than I had before? It feels friskier and the temperatures are about 20 degrees warmer today than the friskiness I experienced on the day I'm comparing today with. And I'm running 93 octane today and on the cooler day I was running 94 octane.

No engine check lights and no momentary cut offs experienced with the new VEC2. Thanks again for building a great system!

Now, is it possible I have more Roe Power?

- Ken

 

[Nadine UK GTS]

Free speak SC post huh...

Sun Ra Kat, all I can say is lucky you!

My car is off the road, I had to take it off before the VEC2 engine cut out took it off! It always cut on me as I got back on the power after apexing a corner, Yikes! I did the factory grounding mod as Sean said (after finding out from someone else) but...it still cut (like hitting my driveline with a sledge hammer); Sean then admitted it was a VEC2 software problem, I have had to fund and insure shipping it back to Sweden myself for the 'fix' (I'm told I'll have to pay $750 if it is lost!). I am disappointed with the SC 'garrentee', it seems we are personally doing research and development testing (and at what unseen wear and tear to our cars?). I am speaking up now, as I'm p*ssed with keep spending my time and money on trying to get the Roe SC to run safely and correctly on my snake, besides the SC probs have already given my car. BTW, I am not a mechanically incapable individual!

 

[Jerry Dobson]

TFast4U,

Those numbers were with a 6D car on 92 Octane. The car is running rich right now. I don't want to tune it until a final decision is made on the exhaust mods. That will lean the car out. But right now, I am off scale at less than 10:1. This car was Stock before the install. Still has the factory header/cats/exhaust.

My problems were minimal during the installation. On startup, I did get a few check engine lights. They were caused from "multibank missfires". First they came on during heavy accelleration. I got a total of four check engine lights.

I thought they were coming from a bad injector. I use a DRB3 and I can turn the injectors on and off. Confirmed this was not the problem, the PCM just needed to re-learn.

OK, now for the dangerous part. During the check engine light, the motor goes into "Safe Mode" and richens the engine. With the larger injectors and stock cats, the exhaust got HOT..... no HOT HOT HOT. I left the DRB at home and had to drive back to reset the codes. With that much fuel dumping into the stock cats, they were smoking. I pulled the side sills off and reset the error code.

After the check engine light situation, all is good and no more check engine lights and the car runs smooth.

During the install, I put in a 180 thermostat. I did not think the stock coolling system could sustain the lower temp. Wrong... It runs real cool now.

The car runs smooth and has power. Could it use more? Sure. Maybe I am a power freak. But it's no problem putting the Go-Fast pedal all the way down through the gears.

FYI: Sean was called on the weekend after the Dyno testing. Sean did call back and it was on a Sunday.

 

[MES]

Some more comments regarding 9&amp;10 fouling. I've tried a restrictor in the bypass valve and it did help. Be careful that it's not sucked into the supercharger, you'll need to secure them in the tube.

Various results

7/8" hole - runs good, cleans up #9 a little bit

3/4" hole - runs fair, cleans up #9 alot, gets check engine code every 3 or 4 drives for lean bank 1 &amp; 2

1/2" hole - not very drivable (throttle transition very abrupt) #9 white as a babies bottom but gets check engine code every time for lean bank 1&amp;2 This is also the only restrictor that cleaned up #10 significantly

 

[utahviper]

I will have to admit that I have spent more than I wanted on the SC'er but my car was a unique situation.

Nadine, did you try the ground on the wire in the rear of the car? I did the one in the front and didn't see much of a change but the one in the rear made alot of difference.

With a new product I think it is going to take a little R&amp;D on the part of the installer. If I had to do it all over again I would still purchase the SC'er but I would have appreciated this type of feed back before I bought it. This would have made it a little easier to make an educated decision. I think I would have waited a little longer before purchasing it to work out most of the bugs. For example, in the last 3 weeks the driveability of my car has improved 100% because of R&amp;D performed by Sean, Larry, and Mike Adams.

The product that Sean provides is top notch and beautiful but there are some small issues to be worked out with some cars. I think that is true with all forced air induction cars in the beginning. When you buy a product DIY and get it for a great price there are some things that will need to be worked out for each individual car.

Further, once the VEC2 and the software for the VEC2 is complete then I think the vast majority of the problems that some people are having will be fixed! At this point the product will be very easy to install and to dyno tune. Right now the "stock" cars are pretty easy to install but the heads/cams cars are still complicated.

The power I desire will probably not come until I get the software for the VEC2 but I think that I will be most of the way there.

 

[utahviper]

Regarding the #10 plug:

Since I have done the grounds for the engine I checked my plugs and they look normal. My plugs looked very dark before I did the grounds!

 

[Joe Dozzo]

Sean,

If you are monitoring this discussion, perhaps you could highlight the major recent recommendations.

For example, I have:
1. The additional ground wire in the pin #3 / VEC2 harness and
2. the new Bosch plugs (sorry all, don't have part number at hand).

I've only had one check engine light since the install - in close to 2300 miles now - and that was my own fault. I fired the car up without connecting the sensor up on the air intake.

At the moment, I also have the very occaisional VEC2 brain f*rt and will be sending VEC2 to Sean Monday for upgrade to VEC2.1 as SUN RA KAT calls it.

I would appear to be missing the second ground - somewhere in the rear of the car?

Any other recent recommendations?


Last, I think I understand Nadine's frustration. On the other hand, I also think we are all part of the "early adopters club" (I think I was #26) and for the quality and price we received, I for one am still very willing to help get all the bugs worked out.

 

[varanus]

I was number 4 and if you guys think you have had problems, I went through what I believe were a lot more than you guys. That being said you can imagine how frustrating it was for me. Some of the problems you guys never even encountered was because me and some earlier people already reported them and Sean was made aware and made adjustments. I have spent a fair amount of time and money trying to trace problems with my viper tech. When I got the sc I thought it was going to be a bolt on and drive into the sunset without a glitch, but it was not.

Now that I have said that, I want to say that Sean has been great.

I bought a nitrous kit from another vendor and customer support was nil. The kit came incomplete missing parts and instructions. After 3 months of phone calls not being returned. promises to send the rest of the parts and instructions, I still did not have everything in the kit. I gave up and sent back what I had recieved so far unused and got a credit card chargeback. The vendor refused delivery and sent it back. I now had the kit as well as my money back. The credit card company told me to just hold on to it as they were sure he would call me for it's return since they took the money back from his account. About 4 months later I never heard a word back from the vendor to return the kit, money, or even ask me why I was returning it or why I was unhappy. Then one day I was served papers saying he was suing me for the money and that I was to appear in court on the other side of the country. Great way to run a business huh? Take the money, don't deliver, and blame everything on the customer even though it's your fault. This was probably the worst mail order experience I ever had and I have bought well over $70,000 in merchandise over the years without any problems.

Sean has been everything a good businessman should be. He has offered to refund my money in full if I wasn't happy. He has always returned my calls promptly-usually within 1/2 hour if I have to leave a message. He has sent diagnostic tools on loan to me for free as well as parts. Because he has always been there, I always had faith the sc would be right. Yes there have been some hiccups along the way, but he has always been there for me and has spent so many hours on the phone it is ridicolous.

His follow ups are amazing. He has called me evenings, saturdays, sundays-sometimes just to ask me how everything is or if he has anything new he has learned.

Some of the problems I honestly can't see how Sean could have forseen them until a number of installs were actually done and used in the real world.. You all have to believe that this undertaking of a DIY SC is enormous, more complicated than anyone anticipated. I believe Sean did his homework and honestly believed he had a product ready to go. from what I have learned- I think he did his due diligence.

Every business has made mistakes. The important thing is how they take care of the customer to make it right. In the case of the nitrous vendor-that would be a textbook case of how not to treat a customer-especially since I had planend future purchases with him for over $8,000 in other partsafter the nitrous kit was installed.

Sean has done everything he could and I am satisfied. Of course no problems at all would have been great, but I have found that anything with a sc always has some problems. Just ask mustang and camaro owners, their DIY kits are always more than bolt it on and go. Plus I would expect an even more problem free kit for them as they have the numbers to justify research for making the kits.

I still have the hiccup and will get the vec 2 upgrade next week at no charge like everyone else and hopefully that will cure it.
The car flat out hauls. Did you guys see the video of Tonys 10.48 at 137mph pass? With kuhmos for grip and 3.54's, every acceleration run is a risk for neck injury.
At car shows after people are wowed by the viper, popping the hood and seeing the beautiful craftsmanship of the blower makes their jaws drop.

To sum it up
1. yes its been a little bumpy of a ride on the sc adventure
I agree with Joe
"Last, I think I understand Nadine's frustration. On the other hand, I also think we are all part of the "early adopters club" (I think I was #26) and for the quality and price we received, I for one am still very willing to help get all the bugs worked out.
"
2. I am very happy with the sc performance and looks and feel it is close to being perfected. Anyone who is getting a kit now should have little or no problems
3. Would I continue to buy from Sean again? Absolutely because I have learned that he backs up everything he sells and I have total confidence that in the end every purchase will be as it should. How does he make any money when he talks on the phone with everyone for 1/2 all the time

One other negative-I cannot run at the track anymore because it is too fast until I get a roll bar and 5 points. A problem many car guys would like to have though

 

[varanus]

By the way-the guy who is angry with Sean for not telling him about the retainers and decided to superglue the connectors to the injectors

What were you thinking?

I talked to a friend about this thread and when he heard about the super glue he just shook his head and laughed.

Why would you permanently attach them? What if you needed to swap an injector because it went bad. You made it so you couldn't fix anything easily.

Both myself and another sc owner who lives close by experienced the loose injector connectors. It seems some injectors clip on well with no free play and others wiggle. We both had intermident misfiring which was frustrating to diagnose. Sean told me how to check with a $9 stethescope and we easily found injectors that sometimes fired and sometimes didn't due to connectors that wiggled loose and tight during driving. On my friends car we got it to run well than after some hard pulls it misfired. It took me 5 minutes to find his number 8 injector had stopped firing. I pushed on the connector and it immediately ran smooth again.
I am cetainly not a mechanic, but Sean has walked me though a lot so if you have an open mind and can follow directions, a lot of diagnostics can be done by people not so experienced. Although I think some people just ought not to attempt working on their cars, it just depends on them. me personally I have learned a lot and feel fairly comfortable doing some of my own wrenching now although nothing too major.

 

[TFAST4U]

Varanus,

You have a question for me on why I " superglue the connectors to the injectors".

Answer: Not a smart move on my part. I was not thinking. We all had a good laughe. Now I will have to buy new injectors. Have another tuner fix my car and find out why it is doing what it is doing.

I think the s/c kit should have the injector clips included. I should of asked someone on the board here what I should do when the injector wires keep coming loose. I too thought " When I got the sc I thought it was going to be a bolt on and drive into the sunset without a glitch, but it was not. "

So thanks for the update, and YES you are right YOU went through what I believe were a lot more than the rest of us. I also agree on ALL you said about Sean. But this is not about how great of a guy Sean is. This is about us, you, me, everyone with or with out the Roe s/c. All the info we get here will help us all out. I just want to drive and enjoy my Viper as I did befor. I never said I was a tuner. Far from it. Call me and I will tell you what I do for a living ( fun ). Nothing close to a tuner. I have now left this up to Larry Macedo at Macedo Motorsports, a tuner Sean refered me to.

I will give you all the updates I can. Larry, I and the cooooool crew went to the V10 Nationals. One of the cars Larry did was Ward's car with the Roe kit and it did 10.30's at the V10 Nationals.
Larry can deal with getting things back on track. I'm not cut out for this tuning stuff, and I have no time to do it to begin with. When I get the info from him I will fill you all in.

I have a Q for you. What did your Viper do in the 1/4 mile?

-----------------------------------------------------------

Jerry,

Thanks for the update!

I know spell check

 

[varanus]

Jerry, thanks for not getting defensive about the post i put up about the superglue. I agree that this is a good exchangeas it is nice to know that I wasn't the one person cursed with problems.

I think Larry will have you up and running in no time. Although I am curious as to why you didn't have Sean work on your car after the install. As I recall he did the install for you?
If it wasn't right I would think Sean would fix it free of charge if it was something that he was responsible for. But maybe you are too far away to drive back and Larry is closer.

Was the car that ran 10:30's a normal sc setup eg exhaust, 70mm throttle bodies, roller rockers, 5 lb pulley?

I have not been to the track since last summer and that was before the sc. I have only gotton in a few days about 4 runs each. I don't go a lot because I have to drive 100 miles to get to the track and it usually takes 4-5 hours to get those runs in. It's hard to learn when you sit around that long. I only got in 2 runs with et streets at 11.7 on motor. I think with some more practice as that was the first time I had ever run those tires it would have dropped. But the clutch started slipping as I did a nitrous run next and that was it for the night. The sc went on a few days later.
I probably will not get to run the sc at the track as they were going to throw me out for running 11's. I really don't want to spend the $ for the 5 point roll bar, 5 point harnesses, jacket, approved harmonic balancer, flywheel, bellhousing etc. So I have to rely on what others have been running on more liberal tracks.

After the problems with injector connectors, I'll bet Sean starts to include them in the kit. Although it's funny they connected fine on the stock injectors and not well on the larger ones. I am going to get the clips as I have to take off the intake tubes anyway to put on my water injection. I like you am not a mechanic, but with all of this I have leaned to be more comfortable with working on the car myself.

Let us know how your car turns out.

 

[Sean Roe]

Hi Kevin,

I can answer a few of the questions you asked Chris (TFAST4U) and give you so more information.

Chris lives in south FL, about 4 hours south of us. He brought the car here a few weeks ago when it was setting a misfire code and not running properly. His local dealer had installed the front ground as per our instructions, but that didn't take care of everything. Chris came up, we checked the code (misfire), disconnected the PCM, looked over everything (plugs, wires, etc.) and could find no problems. So, we added the second ground that we had tested on our car earlier in the day and he took it for a ride. After a few minutes of PCM learning and minor idle fuel adjustment, the car ran great, like it was supposed to. Chris stayed over and hooked up with one of the other local SC owners and they went out driving that evening. Chris stopped by the next morning, said the car was running great, we looked at the plugs and he drove south. On his way, he stopped at a Dynojet shop we told him of and he dynoed the car. It made the expected power.

Everything was fine for about a week until Chris called saying it had set a code or was running rough (I forget which). I told him about looking at the injector clips (I was in the process of writing the troubleshooting guide at the time). I think this is when he decided to superglue the connectors. However, that did not cure what had caused the code.

Chris was frustrated and wanted to bring the car up right then. Problem was, we were booked in the shop and wouldn't have time to work on it soon. That's when I suggested he contact Larry, who is also closer to Chris. If it was just a simple injector connector, I'm sure any professional mechanic could have diagnosed it and repaired the loose connection. But I knew if he took it to Larry, he would get taken care of properly and have a good resource for handling his performance car mechanical needs.

Regarding the injector connectors, we have placed a stock order for them. I don't know that we'll include them in the kit (as our cost keeps going up already), but will make mention of them in the instruction manual. It's funny that on most cars, they snap on fine, where others don't. The injectors themselves have the same connectors. I think it's more that the factory connectors don't have retaining clips on them.

That's one of the tough things about providing a kit like this. We have to rely on the fact that all the other parts on the car are working properly, where sometimes they are not. Add to that all the potential variables (engine condition, production tolerances, different fuels, different climates, etc) and you can see how we were able write a real troubleshooting guide after making 103 systems.

Regarding Ward's car, Larry took Ward's 2001 engine and replaced the pistons, cam and did some light cylinder head work along with adding another 2+ psi of boost.

Regards,
Sean

 

[Big Medicine]

I'm glad this thread came up too. I was under the impression that the R&amp;D period was more or less over for these things. Me thinks headers &amp; full exhaust, maybe some heads &amp; RRs now. No codes for me.