An open forum for Roe Supercharged Viper owners/installers

[VIPR GTS]

my Vec 2 has been remapped by Sean and reinstalled in the car. This has provided a vast improvement in the smoothness and power of the engine. I know Kenny's car is also running smoother now with the Vec 2. What ever Sean did works. My car is running exactally in the manner I had been hoping for when I started this project. The few minor glitches that all of us have encountered we well worth the price of how are cars perform now. Thanks Sean!

Also, take Seans advice, red locktight the crank pulley bolt, I didn't, I paid. Luckily no major damage and Dodge warranty coverd the part. I was lucky the pulley came off while idling in my garage. I would hate to think what would have happened at 100 mph

 

[Joe Dozzo]

Hello Tony,

I have exactly that behavior. On cold start - I mean 35 to 45 Deg F outside (and about 55 in the garage where the car is parked), any throttle application responds like I mashed the brakes. On my car, this seems to happen on more than half the cold starts, but not all. When I get this behavior, I just let the engine idle me up to "speed" - I'm only talking 20 or 30 mph in my neighborhood. And just like you mentioned, get just a little bit of heat in the motor and all's well with the world again.

Also, if the ambient temp is 60+ Deg F. like when I start the car to go home after work, this bucking behavior just after starting is much less frequent, perhaps 1 time in 10.

I'm changing to the new VEC2.1 and will see if this behavior changes any.

I suspect it's a mixture issue - I still run my VEC1 A/F gauge - and blue light is solid on while this is going on. As soon as engine (O2 sensors?) warms a little, mixture leans out a bit and car returns to normal behavior. The Haltech system I had on a Pantera had a cold-start circut that was tunable, perhaps the VEC2 does as well... As soon as I get a few starts with the latest VEC2 under my belt, I'll pass what I've experienced back to this post (and Sean).

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I hope I don't sound like I'm cheerleading, but I never had the throttle hang up and my Viper has never run smoother than now with the VEC2.1. Cold start low RPMs and driving it through my plat at 20 MPH and in 1st & 2nd gears to warm up the fluids before I go on the road is almost as smooth as driving my Ram truck. I just got back from doing some spirited frolicking, and other than the gas guage moving towards the big "E", everything ran perfectly.

My Viper Tech installed the 2nd ground at the battery temperature sensor and crimped the fuel injector attachments and Lock Tighted and torqued my crank bolt, etc and it's 62 degrees outside and partly sunny and the roads were cleaned by some big thunderstorms yesterday. Full throttle causes the RPMs to come up so fast that I feel like I'm shifting every 3 seconds or less.

I've got about 650 miles to go until my next every 3,000 mile oil change and if my Roe Supercharger System performs flawlessly until then, I will officially declare everything is perfect.

 

[Dr Roof]

I'm very proud of our Supercharger system and the power it produces. The reports I got back from participants and spectators at the V10 Nationals helps reinforce my pride in our work. There were three customer blower kits there that were able to run exactly like they're supposed to, pass, after pass, after pass, with no problems or work being done on the cars. From what I heard, some tuners there had to spend a lot more time and money on their cars just to go .1 second faster and couldn't do it consistently.

Regards,
Sean

[/QUOTE]

Sean
Who's tuner cars are you speaking of? From what I know alot of your Customers Cars wanted to be there at the V-10 Nationals but could not attend because their car's would not run properly?

Regardless

Larry had his customers car's tuned well, as did Tony Armour!

 

[Larry Macedo]

David
98 Red GTS
DLM Supercharged
910 HP / Intercooled Best E.T. 10.50


David, don't forget to change the ET in your signature.

 

[fuelman]

Tony, which computer are you running? Do you have the updated VEC2? Havbe you placed the ground straps mods that Sean recommended? What other mods are done to your car?

 

[1TONY1]

Tony, which computer are you running? Do you have the updated VEC2? Havbe you placed the ground straps mods that Sean recommended? What other mods are done to your car?

1996 pcm, updated vec2, both ground straps, 70mm throttle bodies and headers/exhaust.

Has anybody ordered and recieved the msd-2400 injector connectors ????? I have 8 on the way....I need to buy 2 more to do them all at once.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

Tony, which computer are you running? Do you have the updated VEC2? Havbe you placed the ground straps mods that Sean recommended? What other mods are done to your car?

1996 pcm, updated vec2, both ground straps, 70mm throttle bodies and headers/exhaust.

Has anybody ordered and recieved the msd-2400 injector connectors ????? I have 8 on the way....I need to buy 2 more to do them all at once.

Are these the ones to get? I need to try them as well. Maybe that's my problem? I'll try anything now just to get to drive my Viper again.

 

[Larry Macedo]

Tony, which computer are you running? Do you have the updated VEC2? Havbe you placed the ground straps mods that Sean recommended? What other mods are done to your car?

1996 pcm, updated vec2, both ground straps, 70mm throttle bodies and headers/exhaust.

Has anybody ordered and recieved the msd-2400 injector connectors ????? I have 8 on the way....I need to buy 2 more to do them all at once.

Tony, give me a buzz and I'll give you the part number at the alternate source for the connectors.

 

[1TONY1]

Thanks Larry......my other 8 are on back order but should not be but about 10 days away.

On another note...some of you guys try this: 2nd gear very light acceleration or steady rpm with the a/c on.....See if the engine misses/breaks up from 3800 rpm to 4800 rpm. Mine does...bad....turn the a/c off and the miss goes away. I have new plugs to install and will be doing the connectors.

 

[Mike Adams]

Tony what kind of ingnition wires do you have on the car? and how old are they

 

[1TONY1]

Magnacore 10mm, probably 3 or 4 years old. I did try another set (new) a few months back to see if it would solve the cruise miss. By the way, the cruise miss seems to be solved (ground wires ???????)

 

[King RT10]

Tony,. I had the break up with the A/C on and it turned out to be my wiring harness. Vipermed found the problem.

 

[Mike Adams]

That was the ground at the battery I told you about ?

Miss under load like ac or up hills is usually cause by ignition breaking down. I would check out and clean you plug on the coils. May not make proper contact and also that all the wires are on the coil good and tight with die electic grease.

Also what card are you using in your vec2 ?

What code is on it ?

 

[1TONY1]

On another note what is the highest miles put on a Roe s/c ? I am about to turn over 6000 on mine.

 

[Cudaman]

Tony.... I have aprox 5000 miles on my S/C.
Cudaman

 

[TFAST4U]

Hello. Just an update.

I went back and counted all the posts from Roe s/c owners. About 21 owners are posting on the thread. Great info and help for the other 80 or so owners with the Roe s/c system. BUT where are the other 80 cars with the Roe s/c. Let's hear some helpful info from the rest of you. I find it hard to beleave that the other 80 Roe s/c Vipers are rippin the streets and tracks up with no problems. If there is some thing you would like to tell us other owners than let's hear it. Thanks for your help.

Here is my update:

Larry Macedo @ Macedo Motorsports (407)246-6511 has the Viper now and is performing the upgrades and tuning on the Viper. I have found that the Roe s/c Vipers Larry has performed installs on have been vary reliable and Track worthey.

New upgrades. 50lb injectors (no crazy glue this time), New improved Injector conectors from MSD, MSD Boostapump, 1996 PCM, 7lb. pully, Relocated the frunt 02 to read all 5 cylinders. Now that I have given the OK to Larry. I will know more some time soon.

Till than keep the thread ALIVE

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Update - Shortly after my last post, I started running rough at various parts of the RPM bands and fouling sparkplugs and engine check lights. Sean has been nothing short of super-helpfull in trying to track down this latest problem. He has lent me an EASE OBDII system, new computer cards, and even a new PCM to try out to find and cure what ails my Viper. For a while I had a unique Viper and then he found another one that misbehaved similar to mine and thinks that the problem is loose injector connections. My Viper Tech will be checking into everything this evening.

 

[fuelman]

Tony,

With regard to the break up with AC system on, I had a similar situation when I first put on the Supercharger. Car just didn't seem to run right with the AC system engaged. I did the plugs the wires etc with no change, but then I changed the battery. This seemed to help the car a lot with the accessories on. I also noticed before the battery that the check engine light would come on when I would hit the brakes with the lights and AC on, the code was the multiple missfire.

I don't think this was the cure for the problems with the car breaking up, but it did seem to help when running the accessories. Sean and Larry both agreed that a weak battery might put some strain on the ignition system as well. I just put in the top of the line Discount Auto battery ($55) it was a little more powerful then the stock one. When I took out the stock battery the green dot was black, however the car always started and the voltmeter seemed to be normal. Just a thought.

 

[Sean Roe]

Hi Everyone,

I have a couple more items to add to the Troubleshooting guide.

32. My check engine light comes on for a lean mixture code on one or both banks.

One or more injectors not firing properly. If the engine is run with an injector(s) disconnected, the factory PCM adaptives will attempt to add fuel to that bank (Bank 1 is left, Bank 2 is right).

· Using a mechanics stethoscope, listen to each injector to make sure they’re each clicking properly. If an injector is not clicking (firing), begin checking the connection at the injector, then between it and the VEC2. Tighten any loose connections. The injector connectors can be removed with the engine cool without removing the fuel rails. When finished, disconnect the PCM (or battery) to clear out the old PCM adaptives, which set the code.


33. The exhaust is really rich (maybe even smoking or spitting raw fuel), and I have one or more spark plugs that are wet.

There are probably one or more injectors that are stuck in the “on” position.

· Using a mechanics stethoscope, listen to each injector. If an injector is not clicking, then it is either off or full on.
Disconnect the VEC from the car’s wiring harness at the power steering pump and at the back of the valve cover. Reconnect the factory connections. Restart the car and listen to the suspect injectors. If they are now clicking, remove the VEC2 box from its wiring harness and return it for repair.
We have found that if a connection at an injector is loose, the bad connection can cause the injector driver in the VEC2 box to burn out as the connection makes contact again when the injector is under heavy load. When the injector driver burns out, it grounds and causes the injector to open fully.

Chris (TFAST4U),
You wrote "I went back and counted all the posts from Roe s/c owners. About 21 owners are posting on the thread. Great info and help for the other 80 or so owners with the Roe s/c system. BUT where are the other 80 cars with the Roe s/c. Let's hear some helpful info from the rest of you. I find it hard to beleave that the other 80 Roe s/c Vipers are rippin the streets and tracks up with no problems. If there is some thing you would like to tell us other owners than let's hear it. Thanks for your help."

If everything is working well, you usually don't hear from people. We use the the old saying around the shop "no news is good news".

Regards,
Sean

 

[1TONY1]

Sean, In reference to my above post how many miles have you put on your car with the s/c ?

Sunrakat, Sorry about your problem. I recieved 8 of my new injector connectors (the other 8 are on backorder) and the actual metal female part of the connector looks like a MUCH better design so maybe new connectors will help both of us. I am hoping it will take care of my wot miss and then I will work on my a/c miss. My theory on why the connectors seem to be a problem is that: (besides the poor connector design) with the injector harness in the stock (stock intake)hanging position, the plugs have some weight on them always keeping the connector pulled to one side and now that pressure is gone. If you or someone else would like to just buy one pack of eight connectors I can send you two. I will have six extra and will keep two for spares.

 

[Sean Roe]

Hi Tony,

Injector connectors came in today from MSD. Call the shop tomorrow if you want us to send you a few (if your backorder is not in soon). We're still trying to get them in a large quantity direct from the manufacturer.

Our car has about 4,500 miles on the SC over the past year and a half. They have been test and tune miles with between 150 and 200 dyno pulls. I'm actually quite impressed with how well the engine has held up for all the abuse we've given it. As you can imagine, being an R&D car, we're quite ******* it.

I spoke with SURAKAT's tech today. He found the intermittent injector connection problem as described above and closed the female connectors down with needle nose pliers. Of the three types of termial ends available for the stock injector connectors, I've learned that DC uses the low end ones.

Regards,
Sean

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Sean, I found out DC uses the low end ones to keep the price of our Vipers so darned low.

I think my Viper Tech is happy that he gets to keep my Viper for another day - he worked on my Viper through his lunch hour today, but didn't finish all the connections. He said he could finish the connections tonight. I told him to enjoy test driving it. He even said he bought gas for my Viper and I'm getting good gas mileage again. I told him I would pay for the gas, but he said "No."

Wait 'til I pay him for installing my VEC1 on my Ram truck!

Sean and Bobby Loder (my Viper Tech) have both been super during this long process of finding everything out about the Viper. Sean is now Dr.Roe (Doctor of Viperology) and Bobby is Mr.Loder, M.S. (Master of Viperology Science).

 

[fuelman]

I know we have only about 20 Roe Supercharger owners that have participated on this forum. I would like to get some comment from those that have systems working well on what gas mileage your getting. I realize with more than 600 flywheel horsepower this is probably a ridiculous question, but as my car runs great I'm interested as to what other well running supercharged cars are getting. Around town I am getting an OPEC happy 9.75 miles per gallon. On highway only driving it seems to be around 14 MPG. Before the super charger I would get about 14 mpg in the city and on a flat highway 25 mpg.

 

[Joe Dozzo]

I have just under 5000 miles on my car with the Roe SC, 2000 just this last weekend driving the car to, from and at the Mid-America ViperDays event (thanks again Bob!).

Highway mileage was 19 mpg (I also have 3.45 gears), 6 on the track and 13 around town. Before SC, 23 highway and 15 town with gears and VEC1.

Should also say that with the latest iteration of VEC2.1, the cold start driveability issue has gone away on my car

 

[axe]

I know we have only about 20 Roe Supercharger owners that have participated on this forum. I would like to get some comment from those that have systems working well on what gas mileage your getting. I realize with more than 600 flywheel horsepower this is probably a ridiculous question, but as my car runs great I'm interested as to what other well running supercharged cars are getting. Around town I am getting an OPEC happy 9.75 miles per gallon. On highway only driving it seems to be around 14 MPG. Before the super charger I would get about 14 mpg in the city and on a flat highway 25 mpg.

Getting between 9 to 12 mpg with a mix of city and highway driving. It does pop a lot more than before.

Has anyone experienced any of the following?
1) On cold starts, car idles low for 10-15 seconds before idling normally.
2) More idle hang than before SC.

 

[Black Snake]

[/QUOTE]

Getting between 9 to 12 mpg with a mix of city and highway driving. It does pop a lot more than before.

Has anyone experienced any of the following?
1) On cold starts, car idles low for 10-15 seconds before idling normally.
2) More idle hang than before SC.


[/QUOTE]

Yes we have been experiencing both. One problem that has us a little concerned is that every now and then when taking off from a light using little throttle the car will lunge forward hard, but then will drive normal. This only happens on rare occasions, but the lunge is so quick and hard you can hear the tires briefly spin. Overall we have been pretty satisfied with the Supercharger and we somewhat expected a few little bugs to come up. We just recently had a chance to get an air/fuel reading at our last dyno session so hopefully when we get a copy sent to Sean he will be able to help come up with a program to lean the car out a little least it is running so rich.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I got my Viper back from Bobby Loder, my Viper Tech Extrordonaire, about an hour ago. He went over every fuel injector connection and made sure they were as tight as tight can be. And then he did extensive road testing trying to get a rough idle or have it throw a code -and it refused to act up for him.

I just got back from my test drive and I'm still shaking. My Viper really scares me again. More than it ever did before. I'm not saying it picked up 400 horsepower, but it sure picked up at least 60 rear wheel horsepower from before when I had fouled spark plugs and multiple cylinder misfire codes. I don't think it ever ran this good before.

Once again, time will tell if having good connections to the injectors will solve all the world's problems, or at least the problems that concern me right now. But for now, good connections are the right thing to do. If in the future it starts to run rough again, you can bet I'll be getting some good clips (MSD) for the connectors ASAP.

I'm using my 2002 stock PCM instead of the 1996 PCM that Sean had lent to me and my 94 octane card (Sunoco 94 octane gasoline is $168.9/gallon)for the VEC2.1. No 1500 RPM idle hangups, idles at 750-800 RPM (just like stock), Corsa tail pipe tips stayed clean (never happened before), runs smoother from idle to 6000 RPM redline (and sounds quieter, too). My Viper Tech, Bobby, said that my gas mileage improved a whole bunch, too - makes sense because fouled spark plugs make the PCM think it's running lean and was adding 30% more fuel to make it rich enough to be what it thought was the right air-fuel mixture - and it wasn't. Now it is.

 

[Gerald]

ANOTHER 60?

 

[King RT10]

I think he recouped 60