another mag test CD. viper vs vette

[rbarta]

Mopar 426 you had that stuttering problem long??? Most people realized I meant no cupholders from the factory. If an owner puts one in how can you blame it on Dodge? you seemed to miss the point. {again}

Please tell me you are joking, you can't be THAT much in denial are you??

So in order to install the MGW bezel you first need to drill a Coke can size hole into you console??? I mean after all that cup holder didn't come that way from the factory correct??

Maybe they should state that when ordering the bezel that you first ned to drill a hole in your $80,000 car before installing that $30 bezel! HAHAHA

Cup holder bad!!! (ashtray good)

 

[kwiksilver]

If it was anyone other than Mopar, say a person with at least an average IQ, I might be offended, or even explain it one more time. But after reading so much of his B.S., it's really just a waste of time.

 

[SnakeEye]

Mopar426 you should change your name to chevy427 because every post of yours I have EVER seen is all bashing the viper never 1 friggin good word about it EVER. any of you guys go back and look at all his posts 99% are saying something else is better or faster blah blah blah. BTW Mopar not EVERY test has the vette winning all the categorys -STUGOTS

If it was anyone other than Mopar, say a person with at least an average IQ, I might be offended, or even explain it one more time. But after reading so much of his B.S., it's really just a waste of time. -kwiksilver

chebby426 is a work of art, seems more than a few here are on to his BS.

 

[sween]

chebby 427
the vette didnt kill the viper in every catagory.the only really catagory that it killed was acceleration. the viper won in braking (in almost every mag) figure 8(thats MT) and in the skidpad. CD even said that the viper was a better track car and it had better handling. please know what your talking about before you start talking sh*t.

 

[EuG]

THATS a VERY good point that vette is MAXXED from GM racing headers, HF cats, 3" exhaust, ported heads, agressive cam (vipers have this one too), huge TB, 1.7 roller rockers, short throw shifter,STOCK K&N filter and a compression ratio that can choke a horse ect. except its all done by GM where on the vipers WE as the owners do it, so really if you honestly think about it its a POS all those mods and only 505 Bhp?????? look at my sig I have everything they put on the vette stock (plus the vec 2) and im putting down more the 505 at the WHEELS!!! and mines a gen 2, the vettes realy comp is the SRT WHICH comes with 60 Bhp MORE then my car.

So honestly with ALL THAT done to that vette and only 505 Bhp its a POS, you can honestly go get a 2003 Z06 with 405 Bhp ADD all that crap and have MORE then the new Z EASILY.

I know I’ll get flamed to hell just for the mere fact that I drive a vette , but I don’t care.

No offence, but you have no f**king idea what you’re talking about.

LS1/6 street engines have been making upwards of 600rwHP NA for quite some time already.

New LS7 has much much better heads, so it will make at lest as much or more.

Maxed out my ass. Motor puts down ~450rwHP stock and like others mentioned it already made ~490rwHP with just headers and no filter. Keep in mind that no tuning is yet available for LS7 and it’s holding the modifications back (as usual)

I can guarantee you it will be making ~550rwHP with nothing more than bolts ons and cam. 550rwHP in 3130lb car is not bad considering how little cash those mods would cost.

I like Vipers and even often had to defend them on Corvette forum when ignorant members post stupid false $hit about them, but give respect where it’s due for ***** sake!!

 

[STUGOTS]

THATS a VERY good point that vette is MAXXED from GM racing headers, HF cats, 3" exhaust, ported heads, agressive cam (vipers have this one too), huge TB, 1.7 roller rockers, short throw shifter,STOCK K&N filter and a compression ratio that can choke a horse ect. except its all done by GM where on the vipers WE as the owners do it, so really if you honestly think about it its a POS all those mods and only 505 Bhp?????? look at my sig I have everything they put on the vette stock (plus the vec 2) and im putting down more the 505 at the WHEELS!!! and mines a gen 2, the vettes realy comp is the SRT WHICH comes with 60 Bhp MORE then my car.

So honestly with ALL THAT done to that vette and only 505 Bhp its a POS, you can honestly go get a 2003 Z06 with 405 Bhp ADD all that crap and have MORE then the new Z EASILY.

I know I’ll get flamed to hell just for the mere fact that I drive a vette , but I don’t care.

No offence, but you have no f**king idea what you’re talking about.

LS1/6 street engines have been making upwards of 600rwHP NA for quite some time already.

New LS7 has much much better heads, so it will make at lest as much or more.

Maxed out my ass. Motor puts down ~450rwHP stock and like others mentioned it already made ~490rwHP with just headers and no filter. Keep in mind that no tuning is yet available for LS7 and it’s holding the modifications back (as usual)

I can guarantee you it will be making ~550rwHP with nothing more than bolts ons and cam. 550rwHP in 3130lb car is not bad considering how little cash those mods would cost.

I like Vipers and even often had to defend them on Corvette forum when ignorant members post stupid false $hit about them, but give respect where it’s due for ***** sake!!

I LOVE the vette (always have) but that car IS modded from GM more so then the viper is so yeah it has an advantage.

 

[EuG]

I LOVE the vette (always have) but that car IS modded from GM more so then the viper is so yeah it has an advantage.

OK, I don’t completely understand what you mean by Z06 is “modded” from GM more than Viper.
All I’m saying is Z06 is VERY VERY VERY far from maxed out. In fact it’s the other way around.

Look for 550-600rwHP NA Z06s in very near future with minimal mods

 

[STUGOTS]

I LOVE the vette (always have) but that car IS modded from GM more so then the viper is so yeah it has an advantage.

OK, I don’t completely understand what you mean by Z06 is “modded” from GM more than Viper.

well

3" exhaust that the viper owner has to buy aftermarket.

heads alot more high flowing then the viper which the viper owner would have to port/polish

HF cats which us viper owners have to buy

1.7 rockers which us viper owners have to buy

TB which us viper owners buy

ect.

Don't get me wrong it is a GREAT idea put all the mods that 90% of the guys do anyways and put them on the stock car thats an awesome idea but........

1. if the viper had all of those things stock we would see a diffrent outcome

2. lets be honest with all those mods from GM the car SHOULD have more then 505 Bhp.

 

[Fast Freddy]

THATS a VERY good point that vette is MAXXED from GM racing headers, HF cats, 3" exhaust, ported heads, agressive cam (vipers have this one too), huge TB, 1.7 roller rockers, short throw shifter,STOCK K&N filter and a compression ratio that can choke a horse ect. except its all done by GM where on the vipers WE as the owners do it, so really if you honestly think about it its a POS all those mods and only 505 Bhp?????? look at my sig I have everything they put on the vette stock (plus the vec 2) and im putting down more the 505 at the WHEELS!!! and mines a gen 2, the vettes realy comp is the SRT WHICH comes with 60 Bhp MORE then my car.

So honestly with ALL THAT done to that vette and only 505 Bhp its a POS, you can honestly go get a 2003 Z06 with 405 Bhp ADD all that crap and have MORE then the new Z EASILY.

I know I’ll get flamed to hell just for the mere fact that I drive a vette , but I don’t care.

No offence, but you have no f**king idea what you’re talking about.

LS1/6 street engines have been making upwards of 600rwHP NA for quite some time already.

New LS7 has much much better heads, so it will make at lest as much or more.

Maxed out my ass. Motor puts down ~450rwHP stock and like others mentioned it already made ~490rwHP with just headers and no filter. Keep in mind that no tuning is yet available for LS7 and it’s holding the modifications back (as usual)

I can guarantee you it will be making ~550rwHP with nothing more than bolts ons and cam. 550rwHP in 3130lb car is not bad considering how little cash those mods would cost.

I like Vipers and even often had to defend them on Corvette forum when ignorant members post stupid false $hit about them, but give respect where it’s due for ***** sake!!

EUG........ put down the crack pipe and step away from the computer you need to read my post on page 2 and then come back with a reply to that. addresing the LS7 engines, exhaust gas reversion and piston to valve clearance issues with cast pistons are not gonna be solved with minor mods. good luck making 600 rwhp N/A and getting this motor to pass emissions. you are the one who has no clue what you are talking about

 

[Fast Freddy]

I got my Car and Driver today and the results were sad to read indeed. Generation IV, we need you now.

Cheer up! Only Viper's have instant bolt-on gratification! (Z's already maxed out compression ratio). Here's the fix (and Woodhouse will even honor the factory warranty if you buy the car from them!)

Cure for them ol' Corvette Blues!

THATS a VERY good point that vette is MAXXED from GM racing headers, HF cats, 3" exhaust, ported heads, agressive cam (vipers have this one too), huge TB, 1.7 roller rockers, short throw shifter,STOCK K&N filter and a compression ratio that can choke a horse ect. except its all done by GM where on the vipers WE as the owners do it, so really if you honestly think about it its a POS all those mods and only 505 Bhp?????? look at my sig I have everything they put on the vette stock (plus the vec 2) and im putting down more the 505 at the WHEELS!!! and mines a gen 2, the vettes realy comp is the SRT WHICH comes with 60 Bhp MORE then my car.

So honestly with ALL THAT done to that vette and only 505 Bhp its a POS, you can honestly go get a 2003 Z06 with 405 Bhp ADD all that crap and have MORE then the new Z EASILY.


Think about it this way..........


ported heads (a REAL sh!tty port job) 40 Bhp
cam 20 Bhp
K&N 5 Bhp (even tho the claim 5 RWHP just to be fair say 5 Bhp)
TB 5 Bhp
Headers 15 Bhp
HF cats 15 Bhp
cat back 10 Bhp
1.7's 15 Bhp (most guys get 25 - 30 but again to be fair here)


thats ATLEAST 125 Bhp in mods alone NOT counting compression thats appx 380 Bhp WITHOUT the mods thast less power then the 03 Z.

hell with this theory withstanding D.C. don't have to make ANY changes to the snake hell just add B&B headers/exhaust and cal Gregg Good for some porting because thats ALL GM did.

If this is true, then why are C6 Z06 owners seeing really big gains from headers?????

the reason the new LS7 engine is getting such big gains from headers is because the cylinder heads have a poor exhaust port. the intake port is awesome. the intake port has 2.20 valves and flows a whooping 348 cfm @ .600 cam lift. the exhaust port has a relatively small valve at only 1.61 inches and flows 220 cfm @ .600 cam lift. the exhaust to intake ratio is a dismal 63%. in order for this engine to go beyond 500 rwhp in a N/A state you will have to port and polish the exhaust side and install bigger valves. in order to run more lift on the exhaust side you will have to fly cut valve reliefs into the pistons. since the pistons are cast you might as well throw those in the garbage and get your self a set of custom forged pistons. the stock cam already has 20 degrees more duration to combat this flow inneficiency so a biiger cam won't get you much more than 25 rwhp on this motor unless you do the engine work that i have described. and so there in lies the rub. its gonna cost you sum $$$ to mod this engine to get 550+ rwhp in N/A state. if you do it right you can make 550+ rwhp N/A on premium pump gas. you may or may not pass emissions though.

EuG - here you go **** face. tell me what you gonna do about this *****.

 

[Fast Freddy]

EuG - while your busy solving this problem why don't you fix the TPWS and the T/C-A/H problem while your at it too big shot.

 

[Warfang]

Another frustrating fact is that They are pumping even more money into the slow selling $450,000 SLR to make it lighter and faster with more aggressive bodywork. DC is upset that the SLR has not had the impact of the Carerra GT and Enzo.

The money and technology would be better spent on the Viper program an ESTABLISHED successful sports car with a great racing history. The SLR is an automatic and very heavy, and i cannot imagine that many buyers cross shopping one with a Carrera GT or an Enzo.

The SLR is actually quite equal to the Carrera GT. Most people say it is incredible as to how similar the performance is between the 2. In a recent test they were dead even in acceleration, both topped out around 207mph, same braking distances, same lap times as well. I would say they are direct competitors. Here is a review that compares the two and you can see just how similar they are (there are differences though, Carrera GT is more PURE).
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1256050_1,00.html

The SLR is crap. For all that money, it's still an ugly piece of machinery, and it's only a hair faster than a Viper on a good day. So when they say there's no money for the Viper program and then announce they're putting in more money to beef up the SLR... I sense a little "stepchild hating."

The Porsche GT slices and dices it, and the Enzo can kick it's @$$ to the moon. Also, it's an ugly pinocchio-nosed car! THAT's why the sales have sucked!

Oh yeah... I can see the business case for that piece of ****.

re-halo the Viper and let the best car win... or are the krauts afraid of what American engineering can do?

 

[STUGOTS]

Thanks Freddy, VERY nice write up

 

[EuG]

Freddy,

EUG........ put down the crack pipe and step away from the computer you need to read my post on page 2 and then come back with a reply to that. addresing the LS7 engines, exhaust gas reversion and piston to valve clearance issues with cast pistons are not gonna be solved with minor mods. good luck making 600 rwhp N/A and getting this motor to pass emissions. you are the one who has no clue what you are talking about

Man, you found the wrong person too call out on modding late model Vettes! lol
I know almost everything there’s to know on this subject.


First of all, it’s a fact 427ci LS1/6 motors have been making in the neighborhood of 600rwHP for some time. This is NA, street motors that run on pump gas. This is a FACT. If you have a problem with this, I suggest you do a search on CorvetteForum and you’ll find specs, dyno charts, track numbers, etc. I’m not gonna bother wasting my time on this for you…

Now, any idiot that knows anything about motors knows that LS7 is a much better motor than LS1/6, mainly due to 12 degree heads. Also lightweight bottom end (thanks to titanium rods) doesn’t hurt making additional HP either, neither does dry sump.

So you look at all these FACTS it’s easy to see that at a minimum LS7 will make ~600rwHP with bolts-on + heads/cam job. A job like that costs $10-12K tuned and installed for C5s/C6s at a reputable tuner. I don’t see why it would be any different for new Z06.

Now I never mentioned anything about passing emissions, but since you brought it up consider this:
A lot of states now have “ODBII check type” of emission testing. In case you don’t know what it means – a computer is plugged into ODBII port and it checks for any emissions related codes.
No codes – passed.
What this means is that pretty much any size cam, no cats, etc. can easily pass.
All you have to do is program out the codes that would be normally set by computer (this is done during the tuning process) Very easy

the reason the new LS7 engine is getting such big gains from headers is because the cylinder heads have a poor exhaust port. the intake port is awesome. the intake port has 2.20 valves and flows a whooping 348 cfm @ .600 cam lift. the exhaust port has a relatively small valve at only 1.61 inches and flows 220 cfm @ .600 cam lift. the exhaust to intake ratio is a dismal 63%. in order for this engine to go beyond 500 rwhp in a N/A state you will have to port and polish the exhaust side and install bigger valves. in order to run more lift on the exhaust side you will have to fly cut valve reliefs into the pistons. since the pistons are cast you might as well throw those in the garbage and get your self a set of custom forged pistons. the stock cam already has 20 degrees more duration to combat this flow inneficiency so a biiger cam won't get you much more than 25 rwhp on this motor unless you do the engine work that i have described. and so there in lies the rub. its gonna cost you sum $$$ to mod this engine to get 550+ rwhp in N/A state. if you do it right you can make 550+ rwhp N/A on premium pump gas. you may or may not pass emissions though.

And finally to address you specific technical details:

I don’t know where you got your info on the cam, but LS7 cam size is - 230/231 with .591 lift - Source
Not sure what LSA is at this time…

You did get the right numbers for head flow - Source

Now are you telling me that LS7 motor with such tiny cam and this outrageous head flow will not pick up significant HP moving up to a bigger cam?

FYI - My heads flow:
200 132 117
300 194 172
350 220 196
400 244 207
450 265 215
500 288 220
550 305 223
600 314 226
650 327 227

and I make ~500rwHP with 244/244 .608/.612 114LS cam.
My car doesn’t even have 90mm TB and 90mm intake which LS7 has stock and makes a HUGE difference on big cube motors (proven multiple times to show gain of another 20-30rwHP easily)

So now looking at all this data you’re gonna keep telling me that LS7 with MUCH better head flow will not make 550rwHP with stock heads and decent sized cam (say like mine)
Maybe it’s you who needs to put the crack pipe down?

P.S. Btw: what makes you say that bigger cam will cause valve to piston clearance issues? Is this just your assumption?
Valve relieve you say? Take a look at this: LS7 pistion

You must be registered for see images

P.S.S. Many people had their stock cast LS6 pistons fly-cut while in motor when they needed it for a large cam - no problem at all

 

[sachin]

Another frustrating fact is that They are pumping even more money into the slow selling $450,000 SLR to make it lighter and faster with more aggressive bodywork. DC is upset that the SLR has not had the impact of the Carerra GT and Enzo.

The money and technology would be better spent on the Viper program an ESTABLISHED successful sports car with a great racing history. The SLR is an automatic and very heavy, and i cannot imagine that many buyers cross shopping one with a Carrera GT or an Enzo.

The SLR is actually quite equal to the Carrera GT. Most people say it is incredible as to how similar the performance is between the 2. In a recent test they were dead even in acceleration, both topped out around 207mph, same braking distances, same lap times as well. I would say they are direct competitors. Here is a review that compares the two and you can see just how similar they are (there are differences though, Carrera GT is more PURE).
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1256050_1,00.html

The SLR is crap. For all that money, it's still an ugly piece of machinery, and it's only a hair faster than a Viper on a good day. So when they say there's no money for the Viper program and then announce they're putting in more money to beef up the SLR... I sense a little "stepchild hating."

The Porsche GT slices and dices it, and the Enzo can kick it's @$$ to the moon. Also, it's an ugly pinocchio-nosed car! THAT's why the sales have sucked!

Oh yeah... I can see the business case for that piece of ****.

re-halo the Viper and let the best car win... or are the krauts afraid of what American engineering can do?

Did you not just read the article or anything I wrote? Sure the SLR may not be the most beautiful car (it looks much better in person than in pictures though). It will beat a STOCK Viper any day of the week in any test.

It seems with the introduction a lot of Viper owners have become what they use to hate. People should just learn to appreciate a good car for what it is. Not complain that a Z06 is more modded than a Viper stock, lol that is the most hilarious thing I have heard. If it came that way stock then it is stock, end of argument. Z06 owners might as well say the Viper comes more modded compared to our vehicles, they have 8.3L and we only have 7.0L so if we modded our motors to what theirs are we would ****** them. Face it, in straight line acceleration and around the track the Z06 is faster. The Viper drives better and is almost as quick, but it just isn't there. ACCEPT it. I hope DC brings out a new Viper soon to cream the Z06, but for now the Z06 is king of the hill.

 

[STUGOTS]

EuG

with just a set of Gregg Good heads I'll be (hopefully) over 600 RWHP with the mods in my sig (but im gonna be changing the cam at the same time to expect a little more)

 

[Warfang]

Another frustrating fact is that They are pumping even more money into the slow selling $450,000 SLR to make it lighter and faster with more aggressive bodywork. DC is upset that the SLR has not had the impact of the Carerra GT and Enzo.

The money and technology would be better spent on the Viper program an ESTABLISHED successful sports car with a great racing history. The SLR is an automatic and very heavy, and i cannot imagine that many buyers cross shopping one with a Carrera GT or an Enzo.

The SLR is actually quite equal to the Carrera GT. Most people say it is incredible as to how similar the performance is between the 2. In a recent test they were dead even in acceleration, both topped out around 207mph, same braking distances, same lap times as well. I would say they are direct competitors. Here is a review that compares the two and you can see just how similar they are (there are differences though, Carrera GT is more PURE).
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1256050_1,00.html

The SLR is crap. For all that money, it's still an ugly piece of machinery, and it's only a hair faster than a Viper on a good day. So when they say there's no money for the Viper program and then announce they're putting in more money to beef up the SLR... I sense a little "stepchild hating."

The Porsche GT slices and dices it, and the Enzo can kick it's @$$ to the moon. Also, it's an ugly pinocchio-nosed car! THAT's why the sales have sucked!

Oh yeah... I can see the business case for that piece of ****.

re-halo the Viper and let the best car win... or are the krauts afraid of what American engineering can do?

Did you not just read the article or anything I wrote? Sure the SLR may not be the most beautiful car (it looks much better in person than in pictures though). It will beat a STOCK Viper any day of the week in any test.

It seems with the introduction a lot of Viper owners have become what they use to hate. People should just learn to appreciate a good car for what it is. Not complain that a Z06 is more modded than a Viper stock, lol that is the most hilarious thing I have heard. If it came that way stock then it is stock, end of argument. Z06 owners might as well say the Viper comes more modded compared to our vehicles, they have 8.3L and we only have 7.0L so if we modded our motors to what theirs are we would ****** them. Face it, in straight line acceleration and around the track the Z06 is faster. The Viper drives better and is almost as quick, but it just isn't there. ACCEPT it. I hope DC brings out a new Viper soon to cream the Z06, but for now the Z06 is king of the hill.

The Vette is irrelevant... 'nuff said.

You seem to be the only one not paying attention. I've already noted that the SLR, at hundreds of thousands of dollars, is a hair faster than the Viper (and NOT worth the money, hence its poor selling numbers). I don't hate the car, I hate the company that says with one side of it's mouth that it has no money for the Viper, then with the other side proclaim more money to be spent for SLR's development. The same company wants the Viper to present a strong business case for existance, yet continues to keep alive the SLR that has proven to be a poor seller.

That's not a complaint...that's a FACT. The ONLY conclusion that can be drawn is that they insist on having a killer krautmobile... at a loss or not, while the American brands better be generating money, or out it goes! A complaint would be: "WAAAAH... I want traction control.... WAAAH."

 

[EuG]

EuG

with just a set of Gregg Good heads I'll be (hopefully) over 600 RWHP with the mods in my sig (but im gonna be changing the cam at the same time to expect a little more)

Good luck on the upgrades.
I see you're in my area, maybe we'll run into each other one day
Maybe on one of the "Fun runs" if you heard about it

 

[STUGOTS]

EuG

with just a set of Gregg Good heads I'll be (hopefully) over 600 RWHP with the mods in my sig (but im gonna be changing the cam at the same time to expect a little more)

Good luck on the upgrades.
I see you're in my area, maybe we'll run into each other one day
Maybe on one of the "Fun runs" if you heard about it

maybe its called something else where I am, where are you exactly? NY or CT

 

[EuG]

maybe its called something else where I am, where are you exactly? NY or CT

I guess you've never been to one after all.
It's usually around Northen Jersey area.
I'm in NYC area, btw

 

[Mopar426]

Mopar426 you should change your name to chevy427 because every post of yours I have EVER seen is all bashing the viper never 1 friggin good word about it EVER.

any of you guys go back and look at all his posts 99% are saying something else is better or faster blah blah blah.


BTW Mopar not EVERY test has the vette winning all the categorys

Sorry for telling it like it is, some can't handle it...

My disgust for how Dodge is sitting on their *** not uping the ante is no secret but that doesn't change anything in terms of serching for the right car. I'm flying to Georgia next weeknd to look at a B&W GTS.

As for the Viper not getting bet in all mags, You Got Me..

The Viper ran a blistering 12.0 in Car and Driver (yes all times wer off for the GT and Z06).

So what is that 1 out of 7 magazines were the viper won the 1/4 in 12.0??

By all means gloat away.....

 

[Mopar426]

If it was anyone other than Mopar, say a person with at least an average IQ, I might be offended, or even explain it one more time. But after reading so much of his B.S., it's really just a waste of time.

Coming from a memember here barely 2 months with less than 30 posts...

Looks like you failed debate in high school, great come back.

 

[Mopar426]

chebby 427
the vette didnt kill the viper in every catagory.the only really catagory that it killed was acceleration.

Are you kidding me, that's THE most imnportant area. You think most owners car if the car next to them brakes 2ft less?? No hey care about getting beat in the 1/4 by .3-.4., getting beat 0-60,top speed, MPG, and for $20,000 less.

What ****** me off is DC is VERY capable, the just don't give a f*(k....

 

[VipeRicK]

You know what guys this debate over who is faster the Viper or the new Z06 is really getting ridiculus.
First of all if you really are a mature car person there is a lot more to cars than just speed. Last night I was watching the Speed channel and thay had pumped up four
cylinder cars that could blow all our doors off (6.9 @ 197MPH) If thats what you want go get one of those sleds ! I'd rather be riding down the street in my VIPER with the top down!!!

 

[STUGOTS]

Mopar426 you should change your name to chevy427 because every post of yours I have EVER seen is all bashing the viper never 1 friggin good word about it EVER.

any of you guys go back and look at all his posts 99% are saying something else is better or faster blah blah blah.


BTW Mopar not EVERY test has the vette winning all the categorys

Sorry for telling it like it is, some can't handle it...

My disgust for how Dodge is sitting on their *** not uping the ante is no secret but that doesn't change anything in terms of serching for the right car. I'm flying to Georgia next weeknd to look at a B&W GTS.

As for the Viper not getting bet in all mags, You Got Me..

The Viper ran a blistering 12.0 in Car and Driver (yes all times wer off for the GT and Z06).

So what is that 1 out of 7 magazines were the viper won the 1/4 in 12.0??

By all means gloat away.....

I believe Road and track had the viper winning as well.

But I agree with your discust the Viper should be ahead in EVERY mag not 2 I 100% agree

 

[Fast Freddy]

Freddy,

EUG........ put down the crack pipe and step away from the computer you need to read my post on page 2 and then come back with a reply to that. addresing the LS7 engines, exhaust gas reversion and piston to valve clearance issues with cast pistons are not gonna be solved with minor mods. good luck making 600 rwhp N/A and getting this motor to pass emissions. you are the one who has no clue what you are talking about

Man, you found the wrong person too call out on modding late model Vettes! lol
I know almost everything there’s to know on this subject.


First of all, it’s a fact 427ci LS1/6 motors have been making in the neighborhood of 600rwHP for some time. This is NA, street motors that run on pump gas. This is a FACT. If you have a problem with this, I suggest you do a search on CorvetteForum and you’ll find specs, dyno charts, track numbers, etc. I’m not gonna bother wasting my time on this for you…

Now, any idiot that knows anything about motors knows that LS7 is a much better motor than LS1/6, mainly due to 12 degree heads. Also lightweight bottom end (thanks to titanium rods) doesn’t hurt making additional HP either, neither does dry sump.

So you look at all these FACTS it’s easy to see that at a minimum LS7 will make ~600rwHP with bolts-on + heads/cam job. A job like that costs $10-12K tuned and installed for C5s/C6s at a reputable tuner. I don’t see why it would be any different for new Z06.

Now I never mentioned anything about passing emissions, but since you brought it up consider this:
A lot of states now have “ODBII check type” of emission testing. In case you don’t know what it means – a computer is plugged into ODBII port and it checks for any emissions related codes.
No codes – passed.
What this means is that pretty much any size cam, no cats, etc. can easily pass.
All you have to do is program out the codes that would be normally set by computer (this is done during the tuning process) Very easy

the reason the new LS7 engine is getting such big gains from headers is because the cylinder heads have a poor exhaust port. the intake port is awesome. the intake port has 2.20 valves and flows a whooping 348 cfm @ .600 cam lift. the exhaust port has a relatively small valve at only 1.61 inches and flows 220 cfm @ .600 cam lift. the exhaust to intake ratio is a dismal 63%. in order for this engine to go beyond 500 rwhp in a N/A state you will have to port and polish the exhaust side and install bigger valves. in order to run more lift on the exhaust side you will have to fly cut valve reliefs into the pistons. since the pistons are cast you might as well throw those in the garbage and get your self a set of custom forged pistons. the stock cam already has 20 degrees more duration to combat this flow inneficiency so a biiger cam won't get you much more than 25 rwhp on this motor unless you do the engine work that i have described. and so there in lies the rub. its gonna cost you sum $$$ to mod this engine to get 550+ rwhp in N/A state. if you do it right you can make 550+ rwhp N/A on premium pump gas. you may or may not pass emissions though.

And finally to address you specific technical details:

I don’t know where you got your info on the cam, but LS7 cam size is - 230/231 with .591 lift - Source
Not sure what LSA is at this time…

You did get the right numbers for head flow - Source

Now are you telling me that LS7 motor with such tiny cam and this outrageous head flow will not pick up significant HP moving up to a bigger cam?

FYI - My heads flow:
200 132 117
300 194 172
350 220 196
400 244 207
450 265 215
500 288 220
550 305 223
600 314 226
650 327 227

and I make ~500rwHP with 244/244 .608/.612 114LS cam.
My car doesn’t even have 90mm TB and 90mm intake which LS7 has stock and makes a HUGE difference on big cube motors (proven multiple times to show gain of another 20-30rwHP easily)

So now looking at all this data you’re gonna keep telling me that LS7 with MUCH better head flow will not make 550rwHP with stock heads and decent sized cam (say like mine)
Maybe it’s you who needs to put the crack pipe down?

P.S. Btw: what makes you say that bigger cam will cause valve to piston clearance issues? Is this just your assumption?
Valve relieve you say? Take a look at this: LS7 pistion

You must be registered for see images

P.S.S. Many people had their stock cast LS6 pistons fly-cut while in motor when they needed it for a large cam - no problem at all

________________________________________________________________________________

EuG re-read the article. the article states 2 different cam specs in it? the duration specs you mentioned and 230/211 duration @ .050. that bein the case its pretty obvious this article is suspect. the correct LS7 cam specs are:

intake exhaust

lift .591 .591

duration @ .050 211 230

LSA = 120

so again i still stand by my statements and assesments that bein that 550 N/A rwhp with the stock unmodified heads will not be achieved and pass emissions.

 

[SnakeBitten]

The Vette is irrelevant... 'nuff said.

You seem to be the only one not paying attention. I've already noted that the SLR, at hundreds of thousands of dollars, is a hair faster than the Viper (and NOT worth the money, hence its poor selling numbers).

LMAO....You are kidding right? I guess you never seen the Top Gear episode where the Mclaren SLR went around the track less than a half second behind the much lighter Carrera GT. A Viper would be destroyed by the Carrera GT..The SLR was faster then the Zonda, Ford GT, Gallardo, Murcielago etc....The Viper is much slower than the SLR on a track or straight line...SLR traps mid 11's at near 130mph. If you are gonna qoute the best numbers for the Viper you gotta do it for the SLR..Which stock Viper can come within a hair of that performance...It cant even come close to beating the new Z06..The Z06 is more than a second a lap on a short 1.6 mile trackand 5mph faster in the 1/4...Wake up man...Z06 irrelevant??? Only to an ostrich with its head in the sand. BTW the poor SLR sales has alot more do with the existance of the CGT and Enzo than it has to do with the Viper being a hairslower...lmao

 

[VipeRicK]

Mopar 426 let's tell it like it is as you would say.
You really never have anything good to say about Vipers.
So don't bother going to Georgia just go down to your local Chevy dealer and put your money where your mouth is.... on a Z06. Your really not the Viper type. And before you say I'm anti-chevy, I also own a Vette. I'm afraid everybody has your NUMBER and that's as you would say, telling it like it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[EuG]

EuG re-read the article. the article states 2 different cam specs in it? the duration specs you mentioned and 230/211 duration @ .050. that bein the case its pretty obvious this article is suspect. the correct LS7 cam specs are:

intake exhaust

lift .591 .591

duration @ .050 211 230

LSA = 120

Regardless of which spec is right it’s still a very tiny cam for motor this size, so nothing changes.

so again i still stand by my statements and assesments that bein that 550 N/A rwhp with the stock unmodified heads will not be achieved and pass emissions.

I never claimed that 550rwHP will pass emissions, but read my post again – in those states with ODBII emissions pretty much any motor will pass if you “massage” the PCM the right way, so yes it will pass as well.

I guess we can wait and see - shouldn’t be long.

 

[Warfang]

The Vette is irrelevant... 'nuff said.

You seem to be the only one not paying attention. I've already noted that the SLR, at hundreds of thousands of dollars, is a hair faster than the Viper (and NOT worth the money, hence its poor selling numbers).

LMAO....You are kidding right? I guess you never seen the Top Gear episode where the Mclaren SLR went around the track less than a half second behind the much lighter Carrera GT. A Viper would be destroyed by the Carrera GT..The SLR was faster then the Zonda, Ford GT, Gallardo, Murcielago etc....The Viper is much slower than the SLR on a track or straight line...SLR traps mid 11's at near 130mph. If you are gonna qoute the best numbers for the Viper you gotta do it for the SLR..Which stock Viper can come within a hair of that performance...It cant even come close to beating the new Z06..The Z06 is more than a second a lap on a short 1.6 mile trackand 5mph faster in the 1/4...Wake up man...Z06 irrelevant??? Only to an ostrich with its head in the sand. BTW the poor SLR sales has alot more do with the existance of the CGT and Enzo than it has to do with the Viper being a hairslower...lmao

For the price tag, it's ONLY a hair faster. For the r&d money they put into it, they're WAY behind. The ME412 can kick the SLR's ASS... at a faster and less expensive development time. Hmm.. I wonder why they cancelled production at the last minute? Surely it makes a better business case than the SLR? Face it, DC hates their American brands.

BTW the poor SLR sales has alot more do with the existance of the CGT and Enzo...

I'm glad you see my point... sales **** because the ugly SLR can't compete with cars in their price range in performance and design appeal. Instead of firing the design team for coming up with a dog, they throw more money at it... then have the nerve to claim there is no money to go around to the Viper guys.