Anyone using Motul 600 Brake Fluid

[Kai SRT10]

Anyone using Motul 600 brake fluid in their SRT-10?

I'm about to replace my fluid with Motul 600, so if anyone has any warnings, please speak up now.

Thanks

Kai

 

[Fiorano]

I just had motul 600 put in last month. Have only driven the car about 100 miles since because of the weather. Everything is fine so far.

 

[Brad04Mamba]

Motul is now an official Viper Days sponsor. A very good product. Haven't boiled my fluids since using it.

 

[BigCarrot]

I had it in my last car, and it will be going in this one next week. Good stuff!

 

[SCLSSRT10]

I put Motol in my car two years ago and ran Viper Days for those two years, never had any problems with Motol. It is very good stuff, it is a little more expensive but well worth the price. Just about every one that participates in Viper Days uses Motol whether they were a sponsor or not, which they were not prior to this year. You can't go wrong with Motol, they also make engine oil in case you didn't know.

 

[Viper X]

Hey Kai,

I just attended my first Viper Days event at Buttonwillow. Most of the comp coupes run motul. Call or email Dan Cragin at DC Performance with questions as he has a bunch of experience with it and seems to like it.

Dan

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

I've been using it for about 3 years now. Found it on line for $8.75 a bottle in case lots. I change it a couple times a summer. I'm told Valvoline makes a comparable product for less money, but I went with the Motul

Steve

 

[95Viper]

Make sure you use the Motul600RBF Dot4.

Do not confuse it with their Dot5. Do not use that.

 

[Kai SRT10]

Make sure you use the Motul600RBF Dot4.

Do not confuse it with their Dot5. Do not use that.

Now I am more confused than ever.

Checking their web site, I see the following types of fluid.


RBF 600 Factory Line
Dot 5.1 brake fluid
Dot 4 brake fluid
Dot 3 brake fluid

The RBF 600 "Factory Line" seems to have the highest boiling point. Is this the stuff folks are using?
It says that it exceeds DOT4, but it apparently isn't DOT5.1


When you say don't use DOT5, I assume that you mean the silicone based DOT5.

As far as I can tell, Motul makes a DOT5.1 that is not silicone based. I was looking at the Motul 600 DOT5.1

From the Motul Website:

LONG LIFE 100% synthetic fluid for hydraulic actuated-brake and clutch systems.
DOT 5.1 NON-SILICONE BASE.
Fluidity specially designed for anti-locking brake systems.

LONG LIFE FORMULA : the high wet boiling point (185°c/365°F), superior to DOT 4 and DOT 3 fluids enables to use this product longer.
SPECIALLY DESIGNED TO ANTI-LOCKING BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS) : its viscosity (820 centipoises at -40°c / -40°F) lower than DOT 4 and DOT 3 brake fluids, allows MOTUL BRAKE FLUID DOT 5.1 an easier fluid circulation in micro-valves of anti-locking systems.
PERFECTLY NEUTRAL WITH SEALS USED IN BRAKING SYSTEMS. ANTI-CORROSION.

STANDARDS : FMVSS 116 DOT 5.1 NON SILICONE BASE & DOT 4 & DOT 3
SAE J 1703

 

[GTS Bruce]

Why screx around?You spent what on the car and are worried about the price of brake fluid?Bite the bullit and get a couple of cans of Castrol SRF.Yep way expensive but what is your piece of mind and its performance worth to you. GTS Bruce

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I use Castrol SRF.

 

[Kai SRT10]

Why screx around?You spent what on the car and are worried about the price of brake fluid?Bite the bullit and get a couple of cans of Castrol SRF.Yep way expensive but what is your piece of mind and its performance worth to you. GTS Bruce

I never said I was concerned about cost. I'm looking for the best possible brake fluid.

 

[Janni]

In my experience, Castrol SRF is not much more costly. While Motul 600 has a high dry BP, it is VERY hygroscopic and requires frequent flushing / maintenance. I have seen folks at the track bleeding their brakes CONSTANTLY with Motul - and most likely then again when they get home. Probably using a couple of bottles for a complete flush.

With the Castrol SRF, we do not have to bleed brakes at the track. Not on our street cars, not on the race car(s), nada. And we have never had a soft pedal or a brake problem related to fluid. Then, when we got home and do our normal maintenance, the system does not require a complete flush - only a few pumps of the pedal to clear the fluid nearest / in the caliper and topping off the reservoir. Of course, we did completely flush the system the "first time".. We might use 1/3 of a liter of Castrol SRF for track prep. The SRF is a completely different formula and is not as hygroscopic - meaning it does not absorb the water as quickly as the other fluids - thus the higher "wet" BP.

While watching the 24 hours of Daytona, I noticed one of the pit crew walking around one of the cars and topping off the brake fluid reservoir with the telltale gray bottle of SRF. Those guys face extreme conditions - probably 5 or 6 weekends worth of track time and that's what is in their cars.

At North American Race Parts, the price on SRF is reasonable - around $65, I think. So - couple that fact that that is for 32 ounces, and you use less volume (none duing the weekends, and less at track prep) it's actually pretty comparable, IMO.

 

[Kai SRT10]

Thanks Janni (and others). I appreciate the input.

In my experience, Castrol SRF is not much more costly. While Motul 600 has a high dry BP, it is VERY hygroscopic and requires frequent flushing / maintenance. I have seen folks at the track bleeding their brakes CONSTANTLY with Motul - and most likely then again when they get home. Probably using a couple of bottles for a complete flush.

With the Castrol SRF, we do not have to bleed brakes at the track. Not on our street cars, not on the race car(s), nada. And we have never had a soft pedal or a brake problem related to fluid. Then, when we got home and do our normal maintenance, the system does not require a complete flush - only a few pumps of the pedal to clear the fluid nearest / in the caliper and topping off the reservoir. Of course, we did completely flush the system the "first time".. We might use 1/3 of a liter of Castrol SRF for track prep. The SRF is a completely different formula and is not as hygroscopic - meaning it does not absorb the water as quickly as the other fluids - thus the higher "wet" BP.

While watching the 24 hours of Daytona, I noticed one of the pit crew walking around one of the cars and topping off the brake fluid reservoir with the telltale gray bottle of SRF. Those guys face extreme conditions - probably 5 or 6 weekends worth of track time and that's what is in their cars.

At North American Race Parts, the price on SRF is reasonable - around $65, I think. So - couple that fact that that is for 32 ounces, and you use less volume (none duing the weekends, and less at track prep) it's actually pretty comparable, IMO.

 

[95Viper]

Heck Janni, I might switch now.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

You might also consider Brakeman xtreme 6, which is better than Motul, but not the price of SRF. We have had fantastic results and I run it in both my race cars.


Bill Pemberton
Woodhouse Viper

 

[95Viper]

Bill, I had a heck of a time searching on wet boiling for BrakeMan Xtreme. The following link was a good site but I'm not sure of these numbers are the Xtreme product or not. If they are, it is inferior to MotulRBF600. http://www.stealth316.com/2-brakefluid.htm

Janni, Wet on Castrol 518, Motul 420.

 

[Janni]

Craig,
The high wet BP of Castrol is what sold us. That, and the fact that the formulation is less hygroscopic than others means that it degrades at a slower rate overall. Thise 2 things together, made it a no brainer for the track and race cars.

 

[Kai SRT10]

I bought a 6-pack of Castrol SRF for $360 from these guys:

http://www.raceshopper.com/castrol_srf_brake_fluid.shtml

Thanks for all the input. I get my car back today!! Can't wait!!

 

[Motul Bob]

Hello, I am new to the board and very interested in this discussion. I have been working with the Viper Days since last year. Motul is now a series sponsor of the VRL/NRL. I can give you some information from data I have collected from doing trackside tests on Motul RBF 600. RBF 600 and SRF dry boiling boints are nearly identical. SRF has a higher wet boiling point- meaning 3.5% moisture in the fluid. This wet boiling point is a DOT standard test. The wet boiling point is important if you are running a brake system vented directly to the atmosphere. If your braking system is properly maintained and sealed, moisture should not be an issue.
I test fluid directly from the master cylinder or caliper, and can find the boiling point of the fluid in about 30 seconds. I have very limited tests of SRF, so will not make any conclusions. The extensive testing I have done on Motul RBF 600 shows that the fluid will retain it's high boiling point after several track events and several months. We even tested fluid that had been boiled in the Viper Day's rental Neon. The fluid was fresh before the event, and after being cooked, it still had a 580 degree boiling point at the caliper. The fluid is able to retain it's effectiveness even after being abused.
I currently sponsor the points leader of the West Coast region of the Michelin Challenge series- Jim Garrett. His Viper has big brakes and cooling, and he reports no change in braking or pedal feel, with no bleeding required between race events. His car was recently serviced with new fluid after 4 Viper Days events, and a few local events. Absolutely no braking issues.
Reasons to use Motul RBF 600:
Meets Dot 4 specs
Safe for use in street or race cars
Safe for all metals and rubber used in modern brake and clutch systems
Factory fill in the Competition Coupe
Used by factory race teams (Nismo JGTC, Subaru WRC, Prodrive)
Used in all cars prepared at Archer Racing Accessories
Used by Bobby Archer in his personal race car
And most important is that Motul is a Sponsor of Viper Days
Alain Prost and Jean Pieree Joubille will be campaigning a Motul sponsored Viper in the French GT, and Motul is a series sponsor. http://www.motul.com/uk/mag/N%B009GB.pdf
I will always be happy to answer any questions.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I'm sorry Motul Bob but I used Motul for years and got tired of flushing it every day of a track weekend. Not to mention it going brown in a month. Is there some sort of special for-racers-only Motul RBF600 formula that I don't know about? I'd love to support Viper Days sponsors but honestly speaking Motul is crap compared to Castrol SRF. And brakes is one area I won't settle for less than the best.

 

[BigCarrot]

Oh SNAP!

 

[Bugeater]

I use Motul in my VRL car, but I do have to bleed it alot.
For the price I dont think I can complain, but I have always wondered what it would be like to run SRF.

Bob:
Is it "normal" to bleed it daily? I do it out of habit at the track simply because it takes 5 minutes with a body in the drivers seat...

Is that recommended procedure with your cars currently running RBF600 in VRL?

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

We use a ton of Brakeman and their newer Brakeman xtreme6. The regular Brakeman Fluid is fairly close to Motul, but the xtreme6 is closer to SRF. We have had fantastic luck with the xtreme6 and it is quite a bit less than SRF. Worth a try and the Dealership has used these products for years and we use them in our routine maintenance of Vipers. Just a thought.

 

[Motul Bob]

I was addressing the allegation that Motul is more hygroscopic than SRF. SRF is a good product. It has boiling points of 590 dry and 511 wet. RBF 600 is 594 dry and 421 wet. The issue is whether the fluids absorb moisture at different rates. From the trackside tests that I have done, the RBF 600 has a very good hygroscopic ability. I can make this conclusion knowing the wet boiling point is 421.
Saying that RBF 600 is "crap" is a stretch. Motul tests and develops their products with factory teams, such as NISMO. I have personally seen their technicians using RBF 600 prior to a race, and they had no braking issues. The Motul products that are available to the consumer are the same used by factory teams- no look alikes. That is a great benefit.
I believe that racers bleed their brakes as a safety issue. I see this done with every type of brake fluid. So, if your fluid is fresh and clean, moisture is not an issue. Now if you are racing in the rain with a system vented directly to atmoshpere, then moisture is an issue.
As for color, Motul RBF 600 is more of a tan color compared to SRF which is light straw. RBF 600 being brown does not mean it is bad. The fluid I tested from the caliper that was cooked was ugly, but still at 580 degrees.
If the Motul fluid looks brown like a Diet Coke, it is probably still good- it has been working. If it looks like chocolate milk- then it is contaminated.
The factory fluid that I have tested from new cars is around 500 degrees, which is not bad.
As many of you know, there are many variables in braking systems- condition of components, cooling, size of rotors, and driver's foot. Just be sure with any brake fluid to use it from an unopen container. RBF 600 is packed in a nitrogen environment and the bottle is acid etched with a caustic gas. This ensures freshness. The fluid has been tested after 2 years on the shelf and found to have the proper boiling point.
I will be doing trackside tests at Sebring Viper Days. Testing is always available at each event, just ask for Tom Sessions.
I admit to being a little biased toward Motul, but am open to testing any product and learning. I will always try to give an honest and objective answer.
Be safe on the track!

 

[Steve-Indy]

Good info, Motul Bob. I do have a question regarding the Motul RBF 600 in use by occasional track "lappers" (as opposed to racers) as some of this "lapping" population seem to be a little more casual concerning fluid changes in general...is there a recommended maximum time that a "lazy lapper" can leave this fluid in his Viper without problems? Seems to me that the last time I looked at an SRF container there was a max time stated. Thanks, in advance.

 

[GTS Dean]

All I ever hear about from people who run Motul is "bleed, bleed, bleed, bleed."

Screw that. Get yourself some AP 600 or AP 660 and drive, drive, drive, drive. Properly done, one pint in a stock (Gen1 & 2) system will completely flush all old fluid. SRTs will probably require a little more.

 

[Steve-Indy]

One of my concerns is the occasional "lapper" described above...who is often the same person that gets behind on the routine maintenance schedule...and leaves the "track fluid" in place indefinately. I certainly have seen several cases of same...hence my question above directed to Motul Bob.

 

[Motul Bob]

Steve-Indy, that is a tough question to answer. You are correct that SRF says 18 months due to "proprietary additives". Because there are so many variables, I would say 12-18 months should be okay, with some occasional "lapping" included. RBF 600 does meet DOT 4 specs. It should be fine in a pure street car for up to 2 years. It is always good to make a quick inspection of the master cylinder fluid, especially before track time. This would apply to any brake fluid. I have found that in general, older abused RBF 600 will have about a 20 degree lower boiling point at the caliper than the master cylinder. Since most cars do not have a return system, you can be sure that the fluid in the caliper is much dirtier than the resevoir. Be sure to always flush the clutch too. The Viper has some high under hood temps. If the under hood temp is 250, then your fluid is already pre-heated prior to being worked. I saw a car at VOI last year that came to the tech line off the street, and the brake fluid in the brake resevoir was hot enough to put off hot vapors.
Thanks.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Thank you, Bob...that's what I would have guessed.

Several of our guys now use it, so I keep a supply at my house for "backup"...noting that I am a believer in frequent, high volume bleeding in track cars of any type.

Thanks again,

Steve