Are the Gen II's value a little too high??

[bigdeep1]

Haha. You guys have made some GREAT points!! Very well said jjp11. I AM that guy too....who graduated from High School in '97, loved cars, and saw the Gen 1/2 Viper as the epitome of American muscle in our generation. I too studied hard and thought of an exotic car as my motivation.

About this thread title "Are the Gen II's value a little too high?". I totally agree that is based on supply/demand. Correct, I also speak as a man from the "buyer" side ... so I am at a disadvantage as I see current prices of Gen 2s often in the mid 40s and 50s. Again, I think I have seen prices increase on the Gen 2s in the last couple of years. There is no doubt that I do love the Gen 2; however, I have love for the Gen 3 and 4 as well. I don't think I could go wrong in getting any generation, that is why I am inquiring about the Gen II current selling point. They are all fair game!!

 

[1fast400]

Someone give me 100k for my gen 2 tt so i can take part of these inflated prices.

 

[ACRSNK]

Haha. You guys have made some GREAT points!! Very well said jjp11. I AM that guy too....who graduated from High School in '97, loved cars, and saw the Gen 1/2 Viper as the epitome of American muscle in our generation. I too studied hard and thought of an exotic car as my motivation.

About this thread title "Are the Gen II's value a little too high?". I totally agree that is based on supply/demand. Correct, I also speak as a man from the "buyer" side ... so I am at a disadvantage as I see current prices of Gen 2s often in the mid 40s and 50s. Again, I think I have seen prices increase on the Gen 2s in the last couple of years. There is no doubt that I do love the Gen 2; however, I have love for the Gen 3 and 4 as well. I don't think I could go wrong in getting any generation, that is why I am inquiring about the Gen II current selling point. They are all fair game!!

Actually, if you follow these cars at all you will see that the prices have not risen over the last 2 years, but have dropped significantly. A member on here sold his 35K mile 99 GTS not too long ago for around $27K. These are unheard of prices a couple years ago. Buyers market right now for Vipers and just about any other car out there as well.

 

[bigdeep1]

Actually, if you follow these cars at all you will see that the prices have not risen over the last 2 years, but have dropped significantly. A member on here sold his 35K mile 99 GTS not too long ago for around $27K. These are unheard of prices a couple years ago. Buyers market right now for Vipers and just about any other car out there as well.

Thanks, but currently if you go to the VOI classifieds and look at the 99 Snakes....they average an asking price of $50k. I know....that is the asking price, and they are not sold yet.

I think I know which 99 you are referring to. It was a 99 that has had several owners and the tan interior. Pretty, but not the most desirable interior. That was a good price; however, the owner was trying to get rid of the car soon too.

 

[ZYellow01RT]

Genl and Genll's are classics. I see them bringing the most money in 15 years. Just like the early Corvettes. Mine wont as I am going to drive the hell out of it!! ha

Me too..my Gen I has 80K miles and I've loved driving the hell out of it. After I've miled it up even more, I'll sell it for more than I paid and then get another one.

I want to thank all of the guys who are keeping theirs in the garage, and keeping the miles down for me, when I'm finally ready to buy another one!

 

[ZYellow01RT]

Actually, if you follow these cars at all you will see that the prices have not risen over the last 2 years, but have dropped significantly. A member on here sold his 35K mile 99 GTS not too long ago for around $27K. These are unheard of prices a couple years ago. Buyers market right now for Vipers and just about any other car out there as well.

Believe it or not, I bought mine for 15.5K....clear title, 80K miles, and some slight body damage (scratched air dam, slight crack in left fender). Bought it from a soldier who had to let it go before he went back on tour. Timing is everything...but this economy is also helping those who are looking to buy as well.

 

[cratica]

Thanks, but currently if you go to the VOI classifieds and look at the 99 Snakes....they average an asking price of $50k. I know....that is the asking price, and they are not sold yet.

I think I know which 99 you are referring to. It was a 99 that has had several owners and the tan interior. Pretty, but not the most desirable interior. That was a good price; however, the owner was trying to get rid of the car soon too.

You'll find the prices in the classifieds here are considerably higher than street prices, (ie. Craigslist, local newspaper classifieds, Ebay, Autotrader, etc...) So that in itself is not indicative of market value.

 

[v10enomous]

This looked like a great Gen1 for $16,650 that sold the other day.

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 270641977277 end time Oct-05-10 12:10:00 PDT)

 

[97snk]

From what I've seen lately the RT/10 are going in the 20's and the GTS are holding out at mid to low 30's, there's a few b/w GTS's for mid 30's in LA/SanFran craigslist right now...

 

[99 R/T 10]

This looked like a great Gen1 for $16,650 that sold the other day.

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 270641977277 end time Oct-05-10 12:10:00 PDT)

That car has a salvage title too. Not a good comparisone. BUT, here is a 2006 Coupe for a great price:

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

Surprised it hasn't sold already.

 

[97snk]

That car has a salvage title too. Not a good comparisone. BUT, here is a 2006 Coupe for a great price:

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

Surprised it hasn't sold already.

I need to stop seeing these links...must resist temptation...

 

[v10enomous]

The title is Clear which means that it was repaired correctly and state inspected and if it checks out it's a great deal. Wasn't all that long ago that you couldn't replace the hood for that money.

Title is clear Vermont title. The title prior to Vermont title was Salvage. Once registered in VT title was cleared.

That car has a salvage title too. Not a good comparisone. BUT, here is a 2006 Coupe for a great price:

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

Surprised it hasn't sold already.

 

[PittsburghRT]

Supply and demand. I still think all Gens are going too cheap.

 

[Coloviper]

Well kept Vipers of ALL Generations will be desireable in the future. The GEN II Coupes are high because they are in demand. GEN II RT/10s are still low in price. GEN Is, less the 92s are also very low right now. Then again, their prices are much lower to start with from new. GEN III verts will be desireable again in the future, but there are a lot out there and supply is higher thnan demand. GEN III coupes are holding their own all things considered. GEN IV cars are doing relatively good considering the high depreciation of all new cars these days.

Nobody wants a "stories" car and let's face it, EBAY has quite a few stories cars and the prices show lower. The GEN II coupes with the high price tags have next to no miles on them and have no stories.

Love the GEN II GTS but it is anyone's guess what the collectible ones will truly be. The only ones we know for sure right now are the 92s and the GTSRs will be on that list.

Most of those 96s or 97s you see with like 1000 miles have large bid prices on reserve but they are not selling either. EBAY and Barrett Jackson are not the real world despite what some others might think. Do your home work, research your choices and then make a smart buy. Those opportunities are out there. I would say $45K for a no stories 96' GTS is a good price. The ones in the 50s are going to be sitting for awhile as things have not rebounded yet.

 

[488civ10]

40-50k means your are not looking hard enough, and those aren't common closing prices. Bring a pre-approved check or better, cash in hand and negotiate. In my experience, some Viper owners prefer to see their cars go to other enthusiasts who will take care and appreciate their car, post transaction. A local owner sold to me at a lower price than what a Canadian buyer offered him.

While prices may be firming since the depth of fear in the recession (plus interest rates are even lower now), we are a long way from appreciation. Better to keep your money in any Viper, an investment in involuntary grins and yourself. And there is no time like now to invest in yourself, lol. Time to break the viperpiggy bank, more searching and negotiating with owners and figuring out which exact model you want, less waxing about trends in the used Viper market. With all the time you had daydreaming in high school and college lectures, research and study should be done by now!

Haha. You guys have made some GREAT points!! Very well said jjp11. I AM that guy too....who graduated from High School in '97, loved cars, and saw the Gen 1/2 Viper as the epitome of American muscle in our generation. I too studied hard and thought of an exotic car as my motivation.

About this thread title "Are the Gen II's value a little too high?". I totally agree that is based on supply/demand. Correct, I also speak as a man from the "buyer" side ... so I am at a disadvantage as I see current prices of Gen 2s often in the mid 40s and 50s. Again, I think I have seen prices increase on the Gen 2s in the last couple of years. There is no doubt that I do love the Gen 2; however, I have love for the Gen 3 and 4 as well. I don't think I could go wrong in getting any generation, that is why I am inquiring about the Gen II current selling point. They are all fair game!!

 

[FLATOUT]

I'd buy that 06 coupe in a heartbeat if I was in the market. Great car, great price.

 

[bigdeep1]

I saw that 06 on ebay, and was also shocked it wasn't snapped up!! From what I have seen, I would guess that Vipers average bottom is around $35k. I must be honest, I would love to snag a gen II at $25k; however, as most would say, you get what you pay for. There are some exceptions where great deals can be had like that Gen 1 above.

I would like to be a mulitple Viper owner one day, and wanted to start off getting the best deal I can on a Gen II. Correct me if I am wrong, but I doubt prices on the Gen I and IIs will get any lower. If the prices for a great Gen II stay close to $40k, I will wait to snag a nice 2006 Gen III couple....like that **** Viper blue coupe on ebay.

 

[PAvenomRT/10]

The original poster lost all credability with his argument by stating that a GENIV will sell for 45K. That 45K might cover the motor alone but not much else unless the car also came wrapped with its own telephone poll.
PAVenomRT/10

 

[bigdeep1]

The original poster lost all credability with his argument by stating that a GENIV will sell for 45K. That 45K might cover the motor alone but not much else unless the car also came wrapped with its own telephone poll.
PAVenomRT/10

The Gen IV "WILL" sell for $45k one day; however, I did not see the OP make that claim. If you want to speak about credibility, a more accurate price for a Viper crate motor is ~$25k.

OP quote:

It is not the norm for the Gen IVs to sell in the high 40's/ mid 50's, but I have seen a couple in the last month on ebay. I also still see a lot of Gen IVs selling in the mid 60's, low 70's.

 

[agentf1]

Gen II's are at the bottom right now. The no story super clean cars are getting farther and fewer apart and prices only have one way to go, up. That said there is a lot of junk out there that can be had for cheap.

They didn't make many of these cars and people are screwing them up and wrecking them every day. I have been following the market for a while now and can tell you you DO NOT see very many nice Gen II's on the market anymore. I am glad I already have mine since I am sure it is probably even harder to find one now than it was when I was looking. Like somebody posted earlier, they are definitely the next mid year vette as far as pricing and desirability goes.

My advice is if you want one I would buy it sooner than later while there are still deals and unmolested cars to be found.

It is also a hard market to judge since condition, mileage and even color can effect the price so much. Not to mention later Gen II's are even more desirable due to ABS but then for the people looking to modify earlier cars are more desirable due to forged internals. I think cars like one year only colors, GTSR and B&W will be at the top of the desirability list. That said there are not many out there so any clean one will hold its value well when compared to other mass produced cars.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[v10enomous]

The overall desirability and future value will without question favor the lumpy cammed forged internal earlier cars over the later ABS Creampuff cars. The GTS-Rs and B/Ws alone would swing the average. B/Ws are amazing but there are a lot of them (more than any other GTS combo)and they always sell on the high side. A 99 ACR in a low production color combo will probably yield the best return over time because those cars are truly undervalued and underappreciated right now. As GenIIs move from occassional drivers more to collector status, the creampuff motor and ABS won't be nearly as sought after especially in a car that is heralded for it's raw nature and general lack of nannies and creature comforts. You see this played out on 60s and 70s mucle cars at every major televised auction with cars like Yenko Camaros where less is more... It's like a Cleveland vs a Windsdor Mustang or a solid lifter 396 vs a 402.

Gen II's are at the bottom right now. The no story super clean cars are getting farther and fewer apart and prices only have one way to go, up. That said there is a lot of junk out there that can be had for cheap.

They didn't make many of these cars and people are screwing them up and wrecking them every day. I have been following the market for a while now and can tell you you DO NOT see very many nice Gen II's on the market anymore. I am glad I already have mine since I am sure it is probably even harder to find one now than it was when I was looking. Like somebody posted earlier, they are definitely the next mid year vette as far as pricing and desirability goes.

My advice is if you want one I would buy it sooner than later while there are still deals and unmolested cars to be found.

It is also a hard market to judge since condition, mileage and even color can effect the price so much. Not to mention later Gen II's are even more desirable due to ABS but then for the people looking to modify earlier cars are more desirable due to forged internals. I think cars like one year only colors, GTSR and B&W will be at the top of the desirability list. That said there are not many out there so any clean one will hold its value well when compared to other mass produced cars.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[musclenutz]

The title is Clear which means that it was repaired correctly and state inspected and if it checks out it's a great deal. Wasn't all that long ago that you couldn't replace the hood for that money.

Title is clear Vermont title. The title prior to Vermont title was Salvage. Once registered in VT title was cleared.

Yes,but i think what is important,it was a salvage which tends to scare potential buyers and bring the price down much lower than one that had no problems.Still a good deal for anyone not bothered by that.

 

[agentf1]

The overall desirability and future value will without question favor the lumpy cammed forged internal earlier cars over the later ABS Creampuff cars. The GTS-Rs and B/Ws alone would swing the average. B/Ws are amazing but there are a lot of them (more than any other GTS combo)and they always sell on the high side. A 99 ACR in a low production color combo will probably yield the best return over time because those cars are truly undervalued and underappreciated right now. As GenIIs move from occassional drivers more to collector status, the creampuff motor and ABS won't be nearly as sought after especially in a car that is heralded for it's raw nature and general lack of nannies and creature comforts. You see this played out on 60s and 70s mucle cars at every major televised auction with cars like Yenko Camaros where less is more... It's like a Cleveland vs a Windsdor Mustang or a solid lifter 396 vs a 402.

I have to somewhat disagree. The Cleveland and Windsor had a big difference in performance where as the creampuff vs older forged motors really do not perform much different. Some even say the creampuff performs better. That is obviously a topic for another thread. The only advantage to the earlier motors is if you want to supercharge or turbo charge the motor. That said, if they do eventually become collectable like we are talking people will want them stock. Personally I think it will be more color and condition driven than forged or abs driven. I think that all Gen II's will be equally desirable when it come to early vs late, with a possible edge going to the abs cars. The ACR's may be a little more desirable to collectors due to production numbers being lower but then with the shock absorber issues who knows. They are all pretty much bare bones relatively speaking. JMHO

We can debate this all day, I don't think we will really know until that day arrives. I prefer the Sapphire, Graphite and Black cars where others may like Yellow or B&W. I am guessing this is why they make both salt and pepper.

 

[46hemi]

Gen II - No comfort ACR'S...the original and real ******** package. There is a car, built in 1999-2002, and it does not have a radio or air conditioning. I am sorry but thats just cool.

 

[RECOIL]

I have started my pricing research to get back into the Viper family. Just wanted to say the opinions of everyone here are appreciated. 35K is my sweet spot for a Gen II. I'd love to get a creampuff in great condition for that price (red, no stripes). We'll see what happens. I've been scanning the VCA classifieds daily but not much is being added. If anyone knows a VCA guy on the fence about selling, and wants to sell to an enthusiast, with cash in-hand, please let me know.

 

[Next Phase]

I have started my pricing research to get back into the Viper family. Just wanted to say the opinions of everyone here are appreciated. 35K is my sweet spot for a Gen II. I'd love to get a creampuff in great condition for that price (red, no stripes). We'll see what happens. I've been scanning the VCA classifieds daily but not much is being added. If anyone knows a VCA guy on the fence about selling, and wants to sell to an enthusiast, with cash in-hand, please let me know.

I would make a thread stating that you are a buyer... GL!

 

[JimK]

I have started my pricing research to get back into the Viper family. Just wanted to say the opinions of everyone here are appreciated. 35K is my sweet spot for a Gen II. I'd love to get a creampuff in great condition for that price (red, no stripes). We'll see what happens. I've been scanning the VCA classifieds daily but not much is being added. If anyone knows a VCA guy on the fence about selling, and wants to sell to an enthusiast, with cash in-hand, please let me know.

I just saw a car that fit your "sweet spot" description to a T roll right infront of me at Mecum's auction in St Charles, IL a couple weeks ago. It was a perfect Red 97' GTS - think the hammer dropped at $35,250...


Jim

 

[RTTTTed]

Since the "forged piston" issue came up I'll post some info on the issues that the SRT engineers had to go through to find forged pistons for the ACRX.

They tested forged pistons to find the least power loss over the Hypereutetic "cast" pistons. They found forged pistons (from Mahle I believe) that only lost about 4-5 hp. At least 1 set of forged pistons lost as much as 40bhp! Forged pistons don't reshape themselves as easily as do cast pistons and therefor do not fit the non-round bore of the engine block as well. Nearly all emissions are spewed out at engine start up, since Forged pistons generally run .04-.07" gap they rock in the bore and are real "polluters" until after they expand upon expansion. Cast pistons usually get installed about .001" and obviously run smoother and don't wobble as much with the flame travel over the piston dome.

IF you NEED forged pistons such as in a supercharged application, then trade the power for the stronger (0nce they're warmed up) forged pistons.

Words from the SRT tech session at VOI 11. Dick Winkles is the engine engineer and the man to speak to about V 10 engines. The SRT engineers are awesome and happy to answer your questions if you go to the tech sessions. I only wish that Mopar Performance made a "Racer's Bible" for our Vipers. Before Daimler every performance Vehicle got it's own Racing Manual and I bought them all. The older ones contained information on how to order parts, what parts to order and head porting information etc. Daimler eased out of the free information and started providing books with less info but still the best part numbers.

Ted

 

[v10enomous]

Ted... Great overview of the piston issue but the perception is that a forged piston car is more desirable right now... The Creampuff motor label certainly doesn't enhance the image of the car but who knows maybe that will change in the future. Can you do a run down on the Cam differences too ?

International Viper Registry

Looking at the Registry my picks right now for a collector GTS aside from the GTS-R cars in order of desirability and potential appreciation would be:

99 ACR Silver with stripes
01/02 ACR Yellow with Stripes
98 GTS Silver with Stripes
02 Final Edition
01 Saphire Stripes Black int
00 ACR Steel Gray with stripes
96/97 Blue White


These would all be on my shopping list if I were in the market for a low miles collector. I'm certainly no expert but these look like good bets.

I'm aware that the ACR shocks have pros and cons but with a factory harness and the ACR designation and slightly higher factory HP rating and the BBS wheels the ACR cars will bring the much bigger dollars down the road.

Keep in mind that I considered current prices into the appreciation factor which hurts cars like the B/Ws because they are already selling at premium prices and there are a lot of them out there.

 

[Vipuronr]

After the last few years of "economy-shock", the need to go back to basics has become paramount. That said, many people originally in the market for a non-essential, high end performance car have walked away from that idea. As said above, supply and demand is key in determing prices. What we've seen during this recession is many owners selling their cars (as seen with boats as well) and a reduction in overall demand for these types of luxuries.

Consumer mindset, despite the economy coming back to some extent, has not changed much. People are still uncomfortable about the economy and the future so values of the Viper, for example, are down and not returning to the "pre-downturn" values.

Right now, I think there is a huge gap between asking price and actual selling price. Condition/history/mileage still drives many Gen II RT's into the $40's, GTS's into the $50's and same impact with the Gen III's/IV's. But these are listed prices and I would bet many do not sell until prices have been lowered.

I bought my RT just prior to the downturn (unfortunately), and would probably have paid $5K or so less if purchased a year later. Much of this discussion hinges on impact of timing. I think it will take quite a bit of time before demand starts to increase and we see a noticeable upturn in pricing.

Then, we also have the impact of the upcoming launch of Gen V's, so all bets may be off.