Are Vipers too radical for most people??

[Ianfl]

I have been reading about Vipers in the car press since 93 and noticed that in the last few years that they dont seem to be that popular in the comparo tests.
Are they just too radical for the average Joe?
I have continually bypassed them in consideration of other cars based on the lack of enthusiasm in the auto press.
I was fortunate to finally have a test in one last week, and was shocked at how much i enjoyed the car.
The car was a total wild, in your face, blast and in a short 30 minute test drive had people hanging out their cars waving, giving thumbs up, horns honking, and smiles all around.
The car got more attention in 30 min than my z06 has in 8k miles!
I have tested 360 Modenas, 911 TT's and NEVER had this type of reaction!
Nor have i ever experienced such a thrill ride.
So why is this car not revered more in the auto press?
I look forward to finding the right one and making it a car i can modify for 20 years then pass on to my kids.
What a GREAT car!

 

[Viperfreak2]

Vipers are not safe and comfortable everyday cars, so the rags blast them for being 'too hot' and 'too quirky'. They drive Camryclones and minivans all day and expect every car to be practical. What you described above is EXACTLY what we drive Vipers for. That short burst of adrenaline we get from the experience of raw power and razor edged handling! The excitement the car generates is incredible. Yet, the magazines seem to tone down what they say because it's not for everyone. They even throw in a Mosler MT900 (NON STREET LEGAL) to try and steal the spotlight from our baby! We don't want 'refined' and 'safe'.....we want V I P E R

 

[SylvanSRT]

They are plenty safe ask Kelsey Gramar! As for everday use that would depend on your job and location in the country (weather), agreed it is not as cushy as a vette, but this car is loads more fun and powerful. Nothing matches the feeling of being pushed into your seat like viper unless you spend a lot more money, even then the differences are only marginal. The new SRT has moved the Viper into the world class sports car catagory, especially when you look at the bang for the buck factor. I love my SRT over 6,000 miles since January of this year.

 

[Viperzilla]

When I first drove my girlfriend's dad's GTS for the first time last year, I couldn't believe how bad the mags bashed the Viper. I don't look at the magazines as reliable sources anymore. Not to say I don't buy them, I love the articles. But how bad they said the Viper was is only like 25% of what is really is, and my figure is probably exagerrated to the high end. You do have to watch for the power and how the tires follow ruts. I nearly smashed the front end when going 15 MPH coming to a stop light. I've driven that same lane hundreds of times in two other cars without any problems, but the tires followed like crazy in the Viper. Also beware of the stupid fly-bys where they come real close to your Viper.

 

[cratica]

You have to remember that mag editors are used to driving cars for the masses. (vans, wagons, econoboxes). It probably scares the pants off em when they just look at one.
They (GTS/RT's) can be intimidating just to look at! That's also why they don't get the best times in them either at the track. They really don't know much about high performance cars because, well, there just aren't very many at the level of the viper. It's not a car for the masses, mags don't get "kickbacks" for giving them good scores, etc...

It really is a racecar on the street and your everyday Joe doesn't know how to appreciate that.

Unfortunately, the SRT is heading towards a car for the everyday Joe, especially in looks. Oh well, makes me that much more thankful for the Viper RT's, GTS's.

How do you think they would rate a Formula 1 car? "This car is terrible, it has no cup holders and it only gets 3 MPG, I give it a 1 out of 10" - ed.

 

[Snakester]

I also agree with most auto-writer's point of reference being ordinary consumer cars. And the problem is that they always improperly compare the Viper to the Corvette, as opposed to comparing it to cars like the Lamborghini Murcielago and Porsche GT2.

They will usually fall over themselves to praise an exotic car like the Murcielago for it's great performance, looks, handling and braking. And yet when the SRT-10 Viper performs similarly they comment on cabin heat, low gas mileage, and how the Corvette offers nearly the same performance for $30K less.

Yet it's interesting that when they review the Ferrari 360, the magazines never mention that the Corvette Z06 offers the same performance for $120,000 less!

The bottom line is that most auto journalists simply do NOT understand what the Viper is all about. Because it's an American car that costs less than $100K, the concept of the Viper being an exotic car, or a street legal racecar is totally lost on them.

-Dean.

 

[SnakeBitten]

In the late 96-00 the mags[C&D, MT] got it right...In there highspeed shootouts the Viper was winning 7 out of 10 tests outright...It was killing everything they threw at it. Especially on the roadcourse and acceleration..Ferrari, porsche, vette didnt matter it won..Apparently they forgot how to drive a Viper or that it even exists..Whats funny to me is how they dont mind the 200+k MT900's crude, loud behavior..Matter of fact it part of the cars charm...But that same behavior is a gross oversight in the 70k GTS When you are at the top for too long, hate is inevitable...

 

[YouWish]

Too radical??? Maybe...Too wicked??? Yes!!! Too expensive for most people??? Yes!!! Too awesome??? Yes!!! Get the point? Yes,Yes,Yes.

 

[FranciscoR.]

You don't have to own a Viper ( like me ) to understand and appreciate this vehicle. It is with lots of faults. It is not a awesome daily driver. It is horrible on gas economy. And you can fit only two people. That put aside, and considering I am not some 30 year old woman with kids, I don't give a damn. They are beautiful, fast, powerful, and truly awesome cars. Anyone who says otherwise should get back into their Camry's, get 25 mpg, and kiss my A$$...

 

[Russ Oasis]

Allow me to throw my .02 in. I have a little different view of why the magazines write the things they do. People who work for magazines see themselves as JOURNALISTS, especially biased rags like "Road and Track." They are "Automotive Journalists," You know, the educated ones among us. Their tastes are a cut above the common man, "Six Pack Joe," who drives a Ford or Dodge. For years, the "Automotive Journalists" have been touting the sophistication of fine European automobiles, the Ferrari, the Lambo, MB, BMW...etc. Sure, they'd tip their hat to Corvette. It's a reasonable attempt by an American manufacturer to build something that is both inexpensive and performance oriented. Now, along comes DODGE (of all companies) building a vehicle that makes their opinions BS. All of their long held beliefs go OUT THE WINDOW. What self respecting elitist would prefer a Dodge over a Ferrari? But hold it, the Dodge is kicking the Ferrari's ASP...what do we do? Well, let's shade the story in the mag by highlighting things that European afficianados have always complained about in American cars. So now the articles are published and they say "It's too crude, it's fit and finish isn't that good, gee...it's hot, blah, blah, blah." They intentionally downplay the fact that people buy supercars for performance and the Viper outperforms the European supercars in practically every category. 1) Handling 2) Acceleration 3) Braking. And don't even mention cost. How can a $80,000 car be better than a $160,000 Ferrari? The "Automotive Journalists" then try to place the Viper in the $40,000 category by comparing it to the Corvette. The bottom line is that any car made by Dodge will never have enough snob appeal to satisfy the elitists at MOST of the car magazines. "Road and Track" is the worst, followed by "Car and Driver".
Now that I've finished, I have a big decision to make, do I feel like Grey Poupon or Guldens on my sandwich?

 

[Hans Christian]

Russ,

Couldn't agree more with you!!!

 

[Mach500]

Russ,

I also agree with you 100%. Who gives a rat's a$$ about what the magazines say, anyhow? I certainly don't. I bought a Viper over a Porsche or a Ferrari because I love the way a Viper looks and performs, especially mine. Even if those European cars were priced the same or below a viper, I would still buy a viper over those others.

 

[FranciscoR.]

Mach, what is it? Cheapest Ferrari running roughly $120,000 to start off at? Saw the new line at the Detroit Auto show. My lord are they beautiful but insanely expensive. The Enzo now goes for roughly $1,500,000 or so. For that money, I would save some more and get a 2003 Bugatti 16/4 Veyron. Check out the link. It has to be one of the most (top 4) most beautiful, awesomely designed cars ever.

Link to best pic of car.

http://www.fast-autos.net/bugatti/031648.html

Link to several pics of car.

http://www.fast-autos.net/bugatti/03bugatti164.html

 

[Hans Christian]

Francisco,

I agree with you - that Bugatti, is just out of this world - WOW. If money wasn't an object it would be shopping time.

 

[SylvanSRT]

even still the Bug is going to be a fairly heavy car compared to the F1, my feelings are its more of a continent crosser than a track car. then again if you have the money to buy one of these cars you probably have the money to buy BOTH of these cars. i would love the chance to drive either one of these wonderful automobliles, or even a ride in one for that matter!

 

[Skip White]

Never has there been a car to appeal to the public. Thats great. We all like that. The real appeal is the fact the car is all American, built by the company that needs a break. I can't say enough about the car. I have come to accept the ********* rawness of the car, and the lack of build quality as compared to M.B. or BMW. The car reminds me of a Harley. There is no substitute for it. If I were forced to drive the car all day, then I would opt for something else, but thats not the case. I do drive mine every day but not for very long, and I enjoy this very much. I am on my seventh and still haven't got used to the thrill.

Skip White

 

[mit]

Please don't compare my car to a Harley.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

I think Skip was trying to express the similarity many Viper owners see compared to Harley Owners. The old adage that the only time you see a Doctor and a Lawyer talking is if they are on their Harleys, is very much akin to the passion folks have with Vipers. No one really cares what you do, where you have been ( in fact it is funny that many people never ask ) they just wanna talk Snake. I think Skip's analogy is that Harley owners are a breed apart in the Bike World , in that regardless of race, creed , etc., let's just ogle , talk, and drink over these Hogs. I understand his thoughts, as it has often occurred at many Viper functions to see Democrats and Republicans, Catholics, ****, Muslims, and Protestants all hanging out together, enjoying the passion of a GTS, RT-10, or SRT-10. Biases seem to stand removed and I still stand by my creedo that if everyone had a Viper in their driveway we would have world peace,ha. Anyway, just a ramblin,but I think I got Skip's drift!

 

[jcaspar1]

I have come to accept the ********* rawness of the car, and the lack of build quality as compared to M.B. or BMW.

BMW yes. MB no. Rememeber that Dodge, Chrysler and Plymouth all out scored Mercedes on the latest JD Powers Vehicle Dependability Study!

 

[Skip White]

Oh I did'nt say Dependability, I said build quility as in fit and finish, and refinement. MB certaninly has a Dodge beat there. And far as JD Powers, well they are surely speaking of the mass produced models. I will say that the Viper does in fact hold up well considering that so few have been made. If you want to talk dependability then lets talk Toyota and Honda. I can still appreciate other cars high points.

And thanks for the comments, Bill. A Harley to me does very much remind me of this car in the sence that it is America at it's best, and I will not argue with the fact that I do think a Honda is a better bike in allmost every way,but It does not have that feel, look and sound of the Harley. This is very much like the Viper. This is why Harley guy love the Viper so much. After all looks,feel,sound are what much of what it's all about, and as Bill said it doe's bring out the American in all of us.

Skip White

 

[Torquemonster]

Are Vipers too radical for most people?

Judging by some of the driving we see out there - a stock Neon is too radical for most people to handle safely!

Car magazines - like all media - are invariably political. Follow the money and you'll see who gets the favours.

Despite the snobbery of the motoring media - Viper has created its own community and momentum.

A Viper is a poisonous snake - so has to be handled with respect. But mastered, offers a level of fun and satisfaction that you can't get out of taming a Camry. When we've mastered a snake, we know we've done something special.

 

[Skip White]

I'll second the above. I have much fear of the car, and know pretty much how far to take the car. I have had a few close calls. I keep my speed down reosonably. I just like to get on it, go thru a few gears and get off it. If a race comes up I've learned to be a little more considerate of other people's lives. I think you have to really have to have a certain level of maturaity when playing around, and if you do, you will be very unlikely to have a problem. Second worse thing to do in these cars is getting on it before you're completly straightend out. Thanks God for the new stlye diff. in the car. This has made that issue very much safer. I see why they did it now.

Skip

 

[sun diego]

The Harley comparison is interesting, but doesn't fully sum it up. Ducati might be a better example. Fast, dangerous in the wrong hands, low production, some bought for posing, some for racing, a bond between owners, and not so expensive that there is much snob appeal.
When my sons turn 16 the car will be too radical for them until they have a lot of driving schools and experience.
Interesting thread!

 

[Tom and Vipers]

All I can say is that a LOT of people prefer food out of a can!

(AOL Survey, car you most want to own: Mustang)

We are a pathetic lot.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Automotive journalists are all english major pansies who are more in tune with the writings of Shakespeare than they are with what's important. Most of them probably aren't even automotive enthusiasts or they're just too in love with their MGB to admit something else is better. When you look in automotive mags at what cars the writers actually own, you'd be astonished that very few, if not any don't own a single, bad ass muscle car or anything worth any real $$ They are bitter simpletons who hate any car they will never attain in their useless existence.

 

[Viper 24]

I just purchased my first viper and the advice I recieved was "respect the car, or it will kill you". After spedning some time driving the car I have to agree you need to respect the power, this car can get away from you rather quickly. I've found the SRT to be different then hotrods i've owned in the past - firebird with a built RamAir 3 400, cam, tri-power manifold/carb system and 372 rear-end doesn't come close to the quickness and agility of the viper. Is this car too radical for most people, depends on how you qualify "most people" but I will say this car demands respect, a level head and wide open roads.

 

[Viperzilla]

Automotive journalists are all english major pansies who are more in tune with the writings of Shakespeare than they are with what's important. Most of them probably aren't even automotive enthusiasts

I'm looking into changing that. I may go into Journalism to work for a car magazine. I can't stand the literature part of english. IMO it's poems and stories over-killed by over-analyzing minds looking into meanings of details that have no meaning to start with. Example is a character that wears sunglasses, and the literary fool may look at it and say "he's blind to the world and what goes on around him", I say it's a sunny day, and his eyes are effected by glare. Sorry if I offended any literary analysists, but I think it's bloated.

 

[Jim Hodel]

Yes, Vipers are too radical for most people, especially the people who like 'fine plastics' in the interiors of the cars. Also, the car is too hot inside most of the time, has a lumpy idle, and is geared too tall. I use our Z06 for daily driving because it is just plain easier to use. That's why the road testors vote against the Viper. They have a requirement that the car be evaluated as a daily driver.

Now, if I have to sell the Viper or the Z06, the Vette is outta here. I just 'like' the Viper better.

As far as Harley's go, I hope the Viper isn't the automotive equivalent of a Harley. I'm not bike expert, but I've never understood the facination with Harleys. My impression is that they are mostly just loud - and relatively slow in comparison to really fast bikes

I can understand slow and quiet, fast and quiet, and fast and loud, but I can't understand slow and loud....

Jim

 

[Russ Oasis]

Jim,
I think that the Harley reference was more of a "fan base" comparison than comparing the machines themselves. As far as the cars being hot, lumpy idle, etc. These are some of the things that come with owning a real live race car. The Vette is great for going to the grocery store and picking up a few things. The Viper is not as good for those things. On the track, there's no comparison. So...it's a grocery car you're looking for, buy the Vette. If it's all out performance, no question that the Viper wins, hands down. That's what angers so many on this board. The magazines claim to judge performance cars on PERFORMANCE and then whimp out and judge them on picking up groceries.

 

[Bwright]

Are Vipers too radical for most people? Not really. Truth is radical is not the word that describes what most people think when they hear the word Viper. Sad fact is that most simply perceive the car as an unsophisticated one-trick pony that will be difficult and unpleasant to live with. Viper's are usually perceived as cars you have to adapt to. When contemplating paying a considerable sum for such a car, few buyers today are prepared to do so. There are ready examples of this. One of these examples even includes the Viper itself. There are easily twice as many potential Viper owners each year as there are Vipers actually produced and sold. However, Dodge has allowed itself to be cornered by a small but vocal minority of Viper owners into building a car which so alienates a large percentage of potential buyers that Dodge presently can't build much more than 1,500 units because it would not be able to find buyers.

There are too many reasons to list and explore readily but the sum of it is a perceived lack of refinement, features and assembly quality considered necessary by many of the people with the available financial capacity to purchase a Viper. These range from the concrete, such as the available facts on the shocking collision record of the Viper as reported by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, to the sobering list of complaints by Viper owners themselves. Even within this thread there can be found commentary by a Viper owner on something so basic as the difficulty inherent to stopping his car. Such things don't help. I won't even touch on the Valve Issue thread at the top of this page. Can anyone imagine the delight a potential Viper owner must feel reading that thread? Does anyone here remember the venom (no pun intended) directed at the SRT-10 by fellow Viper owners? How would a potential owner feel about the expected marque camraderie after reading some of those threads? The heat issues mentioned by some members on this site easily lend credence to the reporting coming out of major magazines.

While we're on the subject, there is a surprising amount of ire directed at magazine writers and their take on the Viper. From a driving standpoint there are several auto writers writing and testing cars for major auto magazines who have driving and writing credentials that are untouchable by virtually anyone on this site. There should be less 'blame the messenger' and more careful and honest examination of the message which has helped the SRT-10 evolve into the car it is today and which will make the upcoming hardtop variant even more spectacular. Some years ago Motor Trend tested a Viper in a high speed shootout. The GTS Viper blew a coolant house and expired after a spectacular high-speed run. The revamped SRT-10 not only disemboweled its competition during this year's test but did so without a single mechanical twitch in a package far more liveable than that of the GEN I RT/10 it replaced. Auto magazines have an audience of millions. Their readers pay attention, collate their data and share them among themselves and anyone who will listen. Savvy auto makers know this and pay careful attention. Even the Viper's Chief Engineer acknowledged the role of magazines in changing some of the features on the Viper. It is easy for a site member here to dismiss magazines and their influence but then they don't have to answer to the various Boards at Dodge tasked with keeping the Viper in production.

In this day and age the Viper can ill-afford the conceit of all too many of its owners that it be produced in tiny numbers while hewing to an equipment standard that turns off significant numbers of potential owners. The features needed are often vehemently opposed by Viper owners, not for any valid technical reasons, but almost always purely on an emotional basis. Yet their inclusion when offered has proven to be both universally preferred by Viper buyers and to yield performance that simply can't really be beaten by any other production car.

Refinement and performance are not mutually exclusive. It is the uninformed belief that it is that keeps the Viper from being not just a great car but the best of all the supercars.

The Viper is indeed a great car. Too radical? No. Just not as desirable as it could and should be.