Arrow Gen III-IV Engine

[Nader]

Did anyone read the most recent Viper mag? Arrow talks about their Gen III Gen IV engine package where they convert the GenIV to GenIII electronics and mechanical throttle linkage. They claim 600 horsepower but my guess is that it is significantly higher than that. I can only imagine what it must sound like with a conventional high lift cam and overlap.

On another note I came across these pics and find it a bit coincidental... 700 hp seems reasonable.

From Arrows website:


From the Challenger Drag pac.

 

[redtanrt10]

Tom, saw that too and surprised that someone hadn't posted this last week? doesn't seem as simple as putting Gen IV heads on a Gen III as was discussed a year or so ago. Real good power, no DBW, and no Gen IV electronic restrictions. Should mean that supercharger or twin turbo would work too?

 

[Nader]

Yeah I thought the original concept was adapting the heads to the genIII block but it looks like they went in the opposite direction. I am surprised arrow hasnt put together pricing as I have asked on several occasions and just gave up. With the new drag pack, that might be the reason why.

As far as supercharging this setup should get you into the 800 range no problem so long as the pistons are up to the task.

Tom, saw that too and surprised that someone hadn't posted this last week? doesn't seem as simple as putting Gen IV heads on a Gen III as was discussed a year or so ago. Real good power, no DBW, and no Gen IV electronic restrictions. Should mean that supercharger or twin turbo would work too?

 

[AbsolutHank]

This is a very intriguing setup...so is VVT completely abandoned? Is a conventional can used instead? What is the benefit of this over a Greg good head/cam Gen III engine?

 

[Viper Specialty]

The VENOM controller would be needed for Cam control. So, it seems logical that it is basically a solid-cam mechanical throttle body version of the Gen-4 engine.

 

[Dan Cragin]

Dan is correct, what you get is a G4 engine with an non- VVT camshaft, and a new upper plenum that has a single mechanical throttle body. Nice set-up, call Todd at Arrow for info.

 

[Simms]

Dan is correct, what you get is a G4 engine with an non- VVT camshaft, and a new upper plenum that has a single mechanical throttle body. Nice set-up, call Todd at Arrow for info.

Sounds pretty cool to me! Make up some motor mounts and slap one of those into a GTS for us Dan.

 

[mnc2886]

This is a very intriguing setup...so is VVT completely abandoned? Is a conventional can used instead? What is the benefit of this over a Greg good head/cam Gen III engine?

I am curious about this also. I'm not speaking from any personal experience here, but what I have learned is that the Gen IV doesn't make more power just because of VVT. It is the heads also which apparently are similar to Striker heads which are supposedly the best flowing heads on the market ported or not. Also, the intake manifold is different than the Gen III. So would anyone say this is comparable to a Gen III with Striker heads and cam? Another thing, if a company decided to produce aftermarket cams for the Gen IV that had more duration than stock, wouldn't you make more power keeping the VVT? Sorry if I rambled...

 

[Viper Specialty]

I am curious about this also. I'm not speaking from any personal experience here, but what I have learned is that the Gen IV doesn't make more power just because of VVT. It is the heads also which apparently are similar to Striker heads which are supposedly the best flowing heads on the market ported or not. Also, the intake manifold is different than the Gen III. So would anyone say this is comparable to a Gen III with Striker heads and cam? Another thing, if a company decided to produce aftermarket cams for the Gen IV that had more duration than stock, wouldn't you make more power keeping the VVT? Sorry if I rambled...

While the factory programming of the VVT in the VENOM may not be making any more power, you can rest assured that by having control of the camshaft, there is more power to be found. The whole purpose of VVT in the Viper application is to allow the use of a more aggressive profile, and have it remain completely streetable and smooth. The result is that it can maximize power throughout the curve, not just at the peak. Yes, you could make a cam more aggressive than the Gen-4 is capable of with tuning and put down higher peak numbers, but the VVT engine will put down more power everywhere else in the rev range, and be much smoother and easier to drive with equivalent sized cams.

Also, the benefit of having the Gen-4 intake manifold over a Gen-3 is HUGE. Striker heads work well, but having to pull through the Gen-3 intake manifold does not help.

 

[mnc2886]

While the factory programming of the VVT in the VENOM may not be making any more power, you can rest assured that by having control of the camshaft, there is more power to be found. The whole purpose of VVT in the Viper application is to allow the use of a more aggressive profile, and have it remain completely streetable and smooth. The result is that it can maximize power throughout the curve, not just at the peak. Yes, you could make a cam more aggressive than the Gen-4 is capable of with tuning and put down higher peak numbers, but the VVT engine will put down more power everywhere else in the rev range, and be much smoother and easier to drive with equivalent sized cams.

Also, the benefit of having the Gen-4 intake manifold over a Gen-3 is HUGE. Striker heads work well, but having to pull through the Gen-3 intake manifold does not help.

What I meant was that if you keep the VVT and use a cam with more duration than what is currently there, you would make more power everywhere including peak numbers, but your reply did alude to that. So I guess that leaves me with the question on hand of keeping the Gen IV intake manifold with ported Gen IV heads would be a better combination performance wise as opposed to Striker heads and Gen III intake? Both intake manifolds ported of course.

 

[Dan Cragin]

Dan is correct, the VVT is very good at extending the power and rpm range of the engine. For a Gen 3 application a non VVT system will not require a computer change (only a calibration change).

The advantage of the Gen 4 engine in a Gen 3 is a bigger motor, heads that flow as well as aftermarket types and a much better intake.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dan is correct, the VVT is very good at extending the power and rpm range of the engine. For a Gen 3 application a non VVT system will not require a computer change (only a calibration change).

The advantage of the Gen 4 engine in a Gen 3 is a bigger motor, heads that flow as well as aftermarket types and a much better intake.

Hey Dan,

Do you know if this "G3.5" engine will be coming with a new wiring harness & computer [or flash] so that it is a complete drop-in? I would suspect that they will have to build a harness to "group fire" the coils for Wasted Spark, as the JTEC only has 5 coil drivers, and the engine above, if it comes with 10 G4 coils, would require this... unless it uses G3 valve covers, and is drilled to accept the G3 coils as well under the manifold. Another question would be IF the JTEC could even handle the current of driving two coils in tandem per driver...?

 

[Dan Cragin]

From what I saw at Arrow they are using the Gen 3 coils with the JTEC. We have fired 10 coils with 5 drivers on other EMS's but never have tried that with a JTEC. Call Todd he will fill you in.