Best HP for my Buck$$??

[Nadine UK GTS]

Personally, I'd go for a performance exhaust system. It increases power and torque by freeing up and making the gas flow more efficient, ie the engine already has it there when allowed to breath more easily. If you go for a good quality stainless steel system, it will be an investment too, as it should last a lifetime. There are many different exhaust packages and options! 2.5" or 3" pipe, you can loose just the rear boxes, change pipes and boxes from after the cats, change cats to high flow cats, change headers too (I like the tri-y type). Beware some of the tuned headers run too close to the air con, as they are designed more for GTSR Vipers which don't have air con! Stainless steel systems will save you some weight over steel, but run hotter. It's advisable to thermal rap or coat (ceramic is best) the headers, to help combat under-hood temps; and hotter gases move through faster. The more of the system you change, the better the gain in bhp that can be achieved, about 40 ponies can be seen. The sound will improve too, which adds to the Viper experience, again, systems will differ. Do talk to people about any systems you are considering, if you go for an exhaust upgrade.

Nitros gives massive bhp gain, but when the button'*****. The exhaust gains are always on tap, every mile of your drive. It depends if you want the gain for every day driving, or the drag strip? What ever you go for it should see you with a bigger grin.

ps. hope I haven't gone on too much tryed to keep it brief, but I do have a bit of an exhaust fetish.

 

[Nadine UK GTS]

oops...just realized I was mentioning rear boxes, and you have side pipes...

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[phiebert]

I agree with Nadine. I would first go with a new exhaust and then the Nitrous. I went the other way around and although Nitrous really made a difference, it made a bigger difference once the engine could breath better with new exhaust. And even without the Nitrous the exhaust was worth doing.

I haven't dyno'd but this is ballpark HP and pricing:

Replace cats with bullet cats and mufflers with PartsRack Twin-12's gained I guess around 50HP for around $500. (Ask Jon B for exact pricing).

BTR Nitrous gained probably 150HP (with big nozzle spray) for around $2,000.

 

[phiebert]

Rohan, I didn't change the headers, I just got rid of the stock mufflers and replaced them and the cats with high flows. My two cents, make sure you replace the stock mufflers, they're definitely the bottleneck in the exhaust. I'm sure the headers will help, but I wouldn't replace headers and cats and leave those corked mufflers in there.

 

[FrankBarba]

i have a complete rear if your interested. much cheaper than an exhaust. the rear is 5.54. this will definately be snappier than any exhaust mod.

 

[Marv S]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HEMIDAYTNA:
the rear is 5.54. this will definately be snappier than any exhaust mod.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Snappy" is not quite the word that comes to mind if you have a 5.54 rear gear.

 

[Tom Welch]

Horsepower for the dollar, nitrous is the best value that money can buy.

A few examples(that net similiar gains in power):

1). BTR Nitrous 200 hp for $ 1899.00 = $ 9.49 per hp gained

2). 600 hp tuner engine package equates to an average of $ 38,000.00 for the 150 hp gained = $ 253.00 per hp gained

3). Typical supercharger or turbocharger package that makes an additional 100 hp for $ 19,000.00 = $ 190.00 per horsepower gained.

Your savings equates to a minimum of $ 180.50 per horsepower gained! while not making as much power as you will with nitrous!
Yes, there is a maintenance cost for bottle filling that equates to $ 30.00 per fill, which will net you thousands of runs before equaling the cost of your other alternatives. Not to mention that the 600 hp ON ALL THE TIME upgrades will result in shorter engine life and higher maintenance costs not to mention the resale value of those mods and the fact that you will now own a RACED CAR in the eyes of any future buyer.

No flames intended, just stating the facts as I see em.

Good Luck,

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[MaxedGTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Welch:
Horsepower for the dollar, nitrous is the best value that money can buy.

A few examples(that net similiar gains in power):

1). BTR Nitrous 200 hp for $ 1899.00 = $ 9.49 per hp gained

2). 600 hp tuner engine package equates to an average of $ 38,000.00 for the 150 hp gained = $ 253.00 per hp gained

3). Typical supercharger or turbocharger package that makes an additional 100 hp for $ 19,000.00 = $ 190.00 per horsepower gained.

Your savings equates to a minimum of $ 180.50 per horsepower gained! while not making as much power as you will with nitrous!
Yes, there is a maintenance cost for bottle filling that equates to $ 30.00 per fill, which will net you thousands of runs before equaling the cost of your other alternatives. Not to mention that the 600 hp ON ALL THE TIME upgrades will result in shorter engine life and higher maintenance costs not to mention the resale value of those mods and the fact that you will now own a RACED CAR in the eyes of any future buyer.

No flames intended, just stating the facts as I see em.

Good Luck,

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Cooray,
I had the 345 gear and dynamax exhaust (no headers) with roller rockers.
The car ran super. I was not crazy about the bigger throttle bodies, not worth the investment. Nitrous is great, but filling bottles gets old. Unless you own a nitrous refill station, you need to own extra nitrous bottles and with a 200 plus shot - you'll need a 15 lb bottle that will cost $3. OO a pound to fill.
My major concern was that nobody wants a car that has (or) had nitrous on it and I really got tired of the expense, inconvenience of filling bottles all the time.
Finally, I decided to go with one of the Top Viper guys.
Doug Levin Motorsports has one of the best reputations in the business. Go by his shop and you will see no less than 10 Vipers at a time. He custom builds everything in house and his cars are over engineered.

--- 345 gear will set you back 1,500 bucks.
--- roller rockers 1,200 bucks.
--- complete exhaust 1,500 bucks.
--- getting blown up from a leaking propane tank or accident in a street car -- PRICELESS!

Max

 

[Marv S]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck 97 GTS:
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that 5.54 was a typo. He probably has a 3.54.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be a pretty strong limb. Yep it was a typo. Frank knows I was just messin with him.. .

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[Gerald]

19,000 for 100 HP Gained on a S/C setup?
Talk about some bias numbers.

So lets say my RT/10 makes 500HP (400HP stock) instead of around 700?
Glad I don't math like you Tom!

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BTW, refilling those bottle at 50 bucks a pop gets kinda costly don't it? My air if FREE baby!

I don't have to deal w/ bottle pressure, heat, cold, weight, etc.etc etc.

Regards,
Gerald

 

[Tom Welch]

Gerald,

Ive never known you to be so inarticulate! I can't understand your verbage! If you are going to try and heckle me, learn how to form correct sentences! If you ever grow the balls to go fast, I will fill your bottles for 30 bucks!

As for Mr. Maxed GTS, I know Doug, respect what he has accomplished and have seen him run the highest 1/4 mile trap speed of any viper ever! But to burst your bubble, HE USES NITROUS ON HIS OWN CAR!!.

The gentleman who started this post asked the question of "most power for the least dollars". The fact that there isn't a turbocharged or supercharged car on the road(without the aid of nitrous!) that can beat my STOCK viper with nitrous is what i find PRICELESS!!

Take care,

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[phiebert]

Rohan, to answer your last question. There are a number of guys making exhaust setups that will fit your side pipes, mine's side pipes too.

I ended up selecting something Jon B recommended and I am very happy with the change. It's loud, but it's much more powerful. I think Tom at Btr has an exhaust solution too. I stand by my suggestion to replace the mufflers and cats first and then the headers if you really think you need too.

To be honest, especially since you're not in the US (neither am I), it might be easiest to just get hi flow cats and a flowmaster muffler setup locally. It isn't rocket science to have the old cats and mufflers cut out, re-use the hangers from them and mount new cats and flowmasters or even thrush or something like that. Just take off the side sills and measure the existing stuff in there and make sure what you buy fits. Whatever you put in there will be better than the stock mufflers as long as it is high flow. I'd give Jon B a call at PartsRack for his advice though.

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

If I had the money, my car would be supercharged by Doug Levin. I would like nothing better than power that is always on and ready to go. Too many things can go wrong that are not in your control(and some that are) with nitrous. That said nitrous is a tire shredding rush when it kicks in.

On a budget
I would buy a MGW shift knob first. Then, I would go for the exhaust.

If you want a good deal on a used NX system send me an email.

 

[Gerald]

I'm NOT in a good mood.. Sorry.
Chuck, I'll fill you in later. Yep you guessed it....


Gerald

 

[Chuck 97 GTS]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that 5.54 was a typo. He probably has a 3.54.

 

[MaxedGTS]

Tom,
BTW, Doug Levin took me for a ride in my first supercharged viper. Talk about the excitement of going fast and never thinking about filling a bottle again. You need to rethink the math and figure every time you hit the nitrous button your throwing away your money! If I added up all the money I spent on bottle refills,
I could have had my viper supercharged within one year. I like the full time power, stealth and once you take the first step, you'll never go back. Nitrous is cheap to install, but the expense NEVER stops. One day you will see, sooner or later you'll be rebuilding your nitrous motor...... I found out the hard way.

Max

 

[Mamba man steve]

I have met Doug Levin and he is a class act, his shop is large and full of Vipers. His help is good (I know him from a previous employment with a boat engine builder.) The work is first class and Doug is a wealth of Knowledge on all types of drag racing. Super chargers are one way to go it is fun to see it when you open the hood, NOS is more hidden and gives a greater low end power and can be varied. In both cases nothing has to be done to the engine up to about 200 HP. if you uses Tom Welsh's NOS or Dougs Supercharger. (Doug has crank Key'd) I have talked to Tom and purchased from him, and every conversation is a learning experience. MY IDEAL: SETUP would be a Doug Levin Super charger and a Tom Welsh NOS and Sir Hiss WATCHOUT!!!!!

 

[Gerald]

I take that apology back...

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It's not the fact that I'm "fighting" you or "being sensitive", it's just the fact that you keep hammering how much better your system is than everyone elses , Tom. No other tuner here deliberatly rags and professes how much better and cheaper his system is than the other guys. Your not just ******* up their rope, but all of their customers who in THEIR head made the right decision.

I chose my system because of the HP increase , 250 to 300 and the relative EASE it has on your engine from dailly driveability. Did I want to fill a bottle everyother day at 50 bucks pop and weigh my bottle all time, heat it up and cool it back down w/ a wet rag? Did I want to potential bottle leakeage of propane, nitrous etc and have the danger of it exploding in my face or the spark of a door light, etc igniting UNSEEN and UNSMELLABLE gas that is in my car? No. I choose the Supercharger system because like MANY ppl on this board, I simply get in and go, and go, and go and go. All I do is put gas in the tank.

Did I spend 19,000 for 100HP? No. Did I spend 19k for nearly 300HP??? Not really. When you add up minor mods, exhaust, throttle bodies, roller rockers, etc THEN supercharge a motor, you might be suprised at what you get...

It also is nearly a one of a kind car as all packages are different to different vehicles. Someone is flying from California to purchase my Viper from me Monday (hopefully!), he loves the supercharging idea and how easy it is on my engine. If I would have told him I would have had nitrous on my car, he would have hung up on me. Trust me, because I was giong to do it and he told me to stop and he'll just buy my car as is. In fact Doug had to take it back off being 50% installed. (Would've put me near the 850hp to 900hp mark w/ maybe over 1000ftlbs torque!) What have I learned so far? If resale is a major issue, stay away from the Nitrous, it makes it harder to sell.

No flame Tom, just step lightly, lots of eggshells here.

Regards and hope to see you shortly!

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Gerald

 

[ntmatter]

Are you sure you need the extra horsepower? The extra grunt that you'll get from a horsepower boost would be nice in the 1/4 mile, but if you're looking to improve lap times, how about taking an advanced drivers course, or working on the suspension? IMHO, you will get used to and not notice the extra horsepower fairly quickly, whereas improvements to the car's handling and brakes will pay you back on every corner. In addition, for 95% of you street and racing applications, will 600 HP make a difference that 450 doesn't? Well possibly, but enough to justify the cost to install, maintain, and insure the upgrade over the life of the car? I'd spend my money on a lighter hood, Bembro brakes, upgraded suspension, and maybe do the exhaust for a modest gain and much better sound.

 

[jwwiii]

Hey folks, this is one hot topic! I have done simple mods on my Viper; tubes, K&N's, exhaust. I love the way it drives and sounds. However, ponder this... I bet Tiger Woods would whip about any excellent golfer even if he used really old clubs. I think as others on this board wisely told me, that the best performance upgrade is SKILL. I don't care how much hp I have; a trained, experienced driver will beat me.

Food for thought. More horses do feel great, but there is more than most can handle already. My 2 cents worth.

Hey, it's almost spring!

Jim

 

[phiebert]

I'm surprised to hear you say that the Viper gets killed in the turns. I don't do track racing, I'd love to but there are no tracks close enough, but on the occasional street race against Ferrari's and Porsche's in the mountain corners here I more than hold my own. I saw a car and driver article that had the Viper being the only one tested that handled near or over (I can't remember) a 1G lateral force. It even beat out the 911 which surprised me. That should mean it should be solid on the tight turns while out HP'ing the other guys on the short straights you have shouldn't it? Admittedly, braking is poor though!

 

[MaxedGTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IEATVETTS:
Listen Mad Max, Since you are way underrrrr... just throw the **** blower on, and thats it..Mel, just chill out and enjoy the car..who cares about Nitrous and blowers..the cars fastttttttt..

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))enjoy Mate!! And dont get wild on me with the Mad Max joke)) OK Mel?/

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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm very cool see

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!
What erks me is a snot-nose tuner that tries to compare a "HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE PROPANE/NITROUS SYSTEM" to other modifications and that my car is worth less with a supercharger on it? So how is my car depreciated with a supercharger and a nitrous setup isn't? I believe nitrous WITHOUT a propane bottle can be a good source for horsepower, but I didn't pay $19k for 100 horsepower either, so get your facts straight before you go talking smack kid!

Have a nice day,
Max

 

[MaxedGTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MaxedGTS:

Originally posted by IEATVETTS:
Listen Mad Max, Since you are way underrrrr... just throw the **** blower on, and thats it..Mel, just chill out and enjoy the car..who cares about Nitrous and blowers..the cars fastttttttt..

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))enjoy Mate!! And dont get wild on me with the Mad Max joke)) OK Mel?/

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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry IEATVETTS

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, I wasn't referring to you.

 

[TomMiriViper]

19K for a 100 horsepower Supercharger???
I know my Doug Levin Supercharger didn't cost me 19k to get 100 horsepower.

Two things you'll never find on my Viper...........
A propane bomb and a spiffy set of Firestones!

 

[Gerald]

Bump! ^^^

 

[MaxedGTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IEATVETTS:
PS- How do the Kangeroos taste??

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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Never ate one, but I heard
they taste like chicken!

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[MaxedGTS]

The problem is not the cheap nitrous, it's the cheap talk!!!

Max