What are some suggestions on the best way to get swirl marks and minor scratches,(scratches that are not down to the body), out? Also, I have 2 or 3 stone chips, has anyone had any luck covering up stone chips, or is it better to wait till there is a bunch and have the front re-painted. Thanks in advance for feedback.
Best way to get Swirls out
- Thread starter Inferno
- Start date
jeffdai
Enthusiast
i had swirls when i was using wax, when i switched to zaino, used detergent to get all the wax off then a few applications of zaino, all the swirls were gone. Made a million percent difference on the looks of the car, ill never go back to wax on my black car, maybe other colors wouldnt show it as bad but the black sure did
forget zaino...buy liquid glass's product called Liquid Glass carperfect carbon teflon.
BEST wax i ever used. it took out the swirls after 4 or 5 coats. It still looks exactly the same now after 20 or so washes as it looked the first day i applied it. unlike zaino which washes away fast. even with thier zaino BS wash stuff.
you can find thier number here:: http://liquidglass.com/ but THIS product is new and NOT on the site yet. tell them i sent ya.
this stuff is the best around from what i have seen
BEST wax i ever used. it took out the swirls after 4 or 5 coats. It still looks exactly the same now after 20 or so washes as it looked the first day i applied it. unlike zaino which washes away fast. even with thier zaino BS wash stuff.
you can find thier number here:: http://liquidglass.com/ but THIS product is new and NOT on the site yet. tell them i sent ya.
this stuff is the best around from what i have seen
Viperbass
Enthusiast
Please note that if you use a wax, you are not actually removing the swirls, but just filling them in to make them less visible. If you really want to remove them a fine polish is needed and an orbital buffer. You can try it by hand, but usually you end up putting more swirls in due to uneven pressure and speed by your hand. Zaino makes a great fine polish that was just released that is excellent on swirls, also you can use 3M swirl mark remover for dark colored cars. Griot's Garage has a fine polish that I have seen work well too.
The key is really to use an orbital buffer and the proper pad or a rotary buffer. I would only recommend using the rotary buffer if you have experience, otherwise heat can build up with this buffer and you can burn through your paint. Heat will not build up with an orbital buffer.
Hope this helps.
Kurt
The key is really to use an orbital buffer and the proper pad or a rotary buffer. I would only recommend using the rotary buffer if you have experience, otherwise heat can build up with this buffer and you can burn through your paint. Heat will not build up with an orbital buffer.
Hope this helps.
Kurt
GTSPOWERED
Enthusiast
Viperbass has hit the nail on the head. The only way to remove the scratches and swirls is to polish them out. Everyone has there choice in wax/polish and mine is Maguire’s.
Patrick Mathias.
Patrick Mathias.
Matt M PA
Enthusiast
I too have found the new Zaino Fusion to be excellent. Used by hand, it is a slightly abrasive paint cleaner...by machine it becomes a more agressive swirl remover. One note though. In some cases, the Fusion will leave what appears to be a slight (wrong word for this) haze. An application of Z2 or Z5 alleviates this.
You see, there are no oils left behind with the water based Fusion. All other scratch removers (and glazes) leave behind an oil that makes the panel shine so that the average guy thinks he did a good job. No oils left behind means a squeeky clean surface to apply your Zaino, or other last step product to. Some of the better products do not adhere well to a panel with oils.
Oh and GTSPOWERED....it's "Meguiar's".
Let's not start a wax war again..huh?
You see, there are no oils left behind with the water based Fusion. All other scratch removers (and glazes) leave behind an oil that makes the panel shine so that the average guy thinks he did a good job. No oils left behind means a squeeky clean surface to apply your Zaino, or other last step product to. Some of the better products do not adhere well to a panel with oils.
Oh and GTSPOWERED....it's "Meguiar's".
Let's not start a wax war again..huh?
prm06
Enthusiast
I tried many waxes and polishes on my black 95 and the only one that worked was Liquid Glass. I bought it at Auto Zone. It's about $17.00 a can.
agentf1
Enthusiast
I called LG and they did not know anything about this product.
Joisey J
Enthusiast
Re: Liquid Glass PTFE-6
Viperbass
Enthusiast
Re: Liquid Glass PTFE-6
Man, it sounds like I just stepped into a late night info-mertial. One thought, if rock chips are no longer a worry, it must be a pain to strip if you ever need paint work done.
I would be cautious about something that binds that much to paint. That stuff that Zebart sells for cars is awful to remove to fix anything.
Just my 2 cents.
Man, it sounds like I just stepped into a late night info-mertial. One thought, if rock chips are no longer a worry, it must be a pain to strip if you ever need paint work done.
I would be cautious about something that binds that much to paint. That stuff that Zebart sells for cars is awful to remove to fix anything.
Just my 2 cents.
Matt M PA
Enthusiast
Re: Liquid Glass PTFE-6
While this may indeed be the "next great thing", I find it hard to believe that Ferrari has not figured out what all other makers have to avoid acid rain....the white plastic sheeting that is removed by the dealer.
Back on topic. I see the word teflon being thrown around again. Teflon is worthless in a car wax. It does not apply (according to DuPont) until it and the object to be coated are a 640 degrees.
I remember reading similar stories not too long ago about another new product that was to be the best thing ever...and that did not pan out either.
Now I'll wait and see.
While this may indeed be the "next great thing", I find it hard to believe that Ferrari has not figured out what all other makers have to avoid acid rain....the white plastic sheeting that is removed by the dealer.
Back on topic. I see the word teflon being thrown around again. Teflon is worthless in a car wax. It does not apply (according to DuPont) until it and the object to be coated are a 640 degrees.
I remember reading similar stories not too long ago about another new product that was to be the best thing ever...and that did not pan out either.
Now I'll wait and see.
Please note that if you use a wax, you are not actually removing the swirls, but just filling them in to make them less visible. If you really want to remove them a fine polish is needed and an orbital buffer. You can try it by hand, but usually you end up putting more swirls in due to uneven pressure and speed by your hand. Zaino makes a great fine polish that was just released that is excellent on swirls, also you can use 3M swirl mark remover for dark colored cars. Griot's Garage has a fine polish that I have seen work well too.
The key is really to use an orbital buffer and the proper pad or a rotary buffer. I would only recommend using the rotary buffer if you have experience, otherwise heat can build up with this buffer and you can burn through your paint. Heat will not build up with an orbital buffer.
Hope this helps.
Kurt
totally agree, for deeper swirls, scratches, you will need to use an orbital and go into the clearcoat
AJT
Enthusiast
THIS IS "SNAKE BITTEN's" (sp?) Procedure.
I copied a while back & I used it with great results. Make sure you look at the paint REAL WELL before you start putting on coats of wax.
My poser polishing skillz documented:
1. Claybar your entire car, you can get claybars at any Auto Zone, Pep Boys, etc...the brand doesn't matter. USE PLENTY OF LUBRICANT! A large spray bottle with some Dawn dishwashing soap works great...Wait until you see the contaminents the claybar pulls off...and "renew" the claybar often, just stretch it, reshape it like Silly Putty...
2. Swirls...These are scratches in your clear coat...The easiest way to get rid of them is with a random orbital...I trust only one...The Porter Cable...It's about $125...and spring for the "velcro foam pad adapter kit"...Very important, you're gonna need it. Throw the pads that come with it in the trash, especially the wool pad.
3. To remove fine scratches and swirls, you'll need 6" YELLOW FOAM PADS... from www.topoftheline.com ...get about three of them. Also, you'll need a bottle of 3M Fine Cut Rubbing Compound. Put about a quarter sized amount of the 3M on the yellow pad, and at about 4000 rpms, work a 2 ft x 2ft area of your finish...(Tape up any crevices, like the black screens in the hood, this dust gets everywhere)...Keep the buffer moving, but go slow, and press hard enough to compress the YELLOW pad to half it's thickness...and when you think you are going slow enough, go slower...Heat (buffing pad) and abrasive (3M compound) are the only things that will remove swirls/scratches.
4. Once you have peeled all of the swirls/scratches out of your clearcoat, you'll need the 6" BLACK FOAM PADS from www.topoftheline.com ...Also, a bottle of 3M 3M Perfect-It™ III Finishing Glaze...for either DARK cars or for LIGHT cars...they make both...Now do the same as you did with the compound, only at 6000 rpms, again, pressing just hard enough to compress the pad to half it's thickness, which won't be as hard as the yellow pad was. This takes the finest of flaws out, and smooths your clearcoat to near perfection.
5. That should have taken you most of a weekend...if you stayed at it...You cannot [******] this up with the Porter Cable...trust me...you could stand on that buffer with the beforementioned foam pads and not hurt your clearcoat...You have three coats of clear from the factory...15 years worth, if you did this every freakin winter...
6. Now, all you need is to apply many coats of whatever polish/wax you prefer, and when I say many, I mean at least 20...You can use the Porter Cable and WHITE FOAM PADS from www.topoftheline.com ...These are finishing pads and softer than baby's ass (I have this on good authority from Father McOnlee, down at St. Catherines Middle School)Once you get a routine down, applying and removing one coat takes maybe 20 minutes...So instead of planting your ass in front of the bigscreen after dinner, apply a coat of polish to the Viper...Think of it as cardio...
7. I've used Meguires, Mothers, Zaino, etc...Really doesn't matter...Here's the super secret sensitive secret: Apply a coat of Pinnacle Spray Wax in between each coat of polish...and before you take your baby out, and after you put it up... you can get the Pinnacle Spray from...you guessed it... www.topoftheline.com ...I recommend these people because their service is phenomenal...period.
8. NEVAR! Use anything but foam pads, or MicroFiber towels on your finish...The Viper's clearcoat is very soft, and scratches easy...
9. Dusting...California Duster...Buy a new one every summer, use the old one on your wheels to remove the bulk of the brake dust. Next summer, same deal, buy a new one, old one goes to the wheels, the old old one goes either to the wifeys car or the trash...
10. Now, you've got several coats of polish/wax and Pinnacle applied...Your baby is looking pretty sweet...Take a brand new WHITE foam pad and at about 4000 rpms, go over the entire finish...yep...just a dry white finishing pad...Now do this after every Pinnacle application to really make your finish pop...
I present to you, exhibit A: My ********* car
I copied a while back & I used it with great results. Make sure you look at the paint REAL WELL before you start putting on coats of wax.
My poser polishing skillz documented:
1. Claybar your entire car, you can get claybars at any Auto Zone, Pep Boys, etc...the brand doesn't matter. USE PLENTY OF LUBRICANT! A large spray bottle with some Dawn dishwashing soap works great...Wait until you see the contaminents the claybar pulls off...and "renew" the claybar often, just stretch it, reshape it like Silly Putty...
2. Swirls...These are scratches in your clear coat...The easiest way to get rid of them is with a random orbital...I trust only one...The Porter Cable...It's about $125...and spring for the "velcro foam pad adapter kit"...Very important, you're gonna need it. Throw the pads that come with it in the trash, especially the wool pad.
3. To remove fine scratches and swirls, you'll need 6" YELLOW FOAM PADS... from www.topoftheline.com ...get about three of them. Also, you'll need a bottle of 3M Fine Cut Rubbing Compound. Put about a quarter sized amount of the 3M on the yellow pad, and at about 4000 rpms, work a 2 ft x 2ft area of your finish...(Tape up any crevices, like the black screens in the hood, this dust gets everywhere)...Keep the buffer moving, but go slow, and press hard enough to compress the YELLOW pad to half it's thickness...and when you think you are going slow enough, go slower...Heat (buffing pad) and abrasive (3M compound) are the only things that will remove swirls/scratches.
4. Once you have peeled all of the swirls/scratches out of your clearcoat, you'll need the 6" BLACK FOAM PADS from www.topoftheline.com ...Also, a bottle of 3M 3M Perfect-It™ III Finishing Glaze...for either DARK cars or for LIGHT cars...they make both...Now do the same as you did with the compound, only at 6000 rpms, again, pressing just hard enough to compress the pad to half it's thickness, which won't be as hard as the yellow pad was. This takes the finest of flaws out, and smooths your clearcoat to near perfection.
5. That should have taken you most of a weekend...if you stayed at it...You cannot [******] this up with the Porter Cable...trust me...you could stand on that buffer with the beforementioned foam pads and not hurt your clearcoat...You have three coats of clear from the factory...15 years worth, if you did this every freakin winter...
6. Now, all you need is to apply many coats of whatever polish/wax you prefer, and when I say many, I mean at least 20...You can use the Porter Cable and WHITE FOAM PADS from www.topoftheline.com ...These are finishing pads and softer than baby's ass (I have this on good authority from Father McOnlee, down at St. Catherines Middle School)Once you get a routine down, applying and removing one coat takes maybe 20 minutes...So instead of planting your ass in front of the bigscreen after dinner, apply a coat of polish to the Viper...Think of it as cardio...
7. I've used Meguires, Mothers, Zaino, etc...Really doesn't matter...Here's the super secret sensitive secret: Apply a coat of Pinnacle Spray Wax in between each coat of polish...and before you take your baby out, and after you put it up... you can get the Pinnacle Spray from...you guessed it... www.topoftheline.com ...I recommend these people because their service is phenomenal...period.
8. NEVAR! Use anything but foam pads, or MicroFiber towels on your finish...The Viper's clearcoat is very soft, and scratches easy...
9. Dusting...California Duster...Buy a new one every summer, use the old one on your wheels to remove the bulk of the brake dust. Next summer, same deal, buy a new one, old one goes to the wheels, the old old one goes either to the wifeys car or the trash...
10. Now, you've got several coats of polish/wax and Pinnacle applied...Your baby is looking pretty sweet...Take a brand new WHITE foam pad and at about 4000 rpms, go over the entire finish...yep...just a dry white finishing pad...Now do this after every Pinnacle application to really make your finish pop...
I present to you, exhibit A: My ********* car
This sounds like a crock of S**T! If it's so great, why can't anyone get it? And, why would they sell it in large volumes to countries like China and the Philippines where cars are more a means of transportation rather than a reflection of personality. I don't get it!
its NEW and still being tested from what i know. all i know is its better than BS Zaino and lasts a lot longer and thru way more washes. thats really what i care about.
i agree any deep scratches need an orbital.
i also clay barred the heck out of my car before the wax went on. it really is the best thing to do before any waxing.
i agree any deep scratches need an orbital.
i also clay barred the heck out of my car before the wax went on. it really is the best thing to do before any waxing.
pattymelt3605
Enthusiast
Re: Liquid Glass PTFE-6
I called and no one ever called me back. How much is the product and how much do you get?
Patrick
I'm thinking it might be cheaper just to throw the car away and get a new one every time it needs wax.
I called and no one ever called me back. How much is the product and how much do you get?
Patrick
Re: Liquid Glass PTFE-6
ya get a kit of a few products and one of them is this carbon ptfe stuff. its more than enough to do a viper. I put 5 coats on and its only 1/3 used up. gonna run ya $150 for the kit i think he said.
ya get a kit of a few products and one of them is this carbon ptfe stuff. its more than enough to do a viper. I put 5 coats on and its only 1/3 used up. gonna run ya $150 for the kit i think he said.
Matt M PA
Enthusiast
Re: Liquid Glass PTFE-6
Joisey Jay…welcome to the VCA forum! I hope you’ll have a good time here. Lots of helpful and knowledgeable folks.
I took a look at your profile, and saw your name listed. Did you realize that you and the President of Liquid Glass share the same name? Uncanny.
(I sincerely hope that this is not the President of a company using a pseudonym and speaking in third party to hype product. That would only diminish the product and company’s credibility.)
I'm all for legitimate discussion about any product or technique. "This stinks that rules" is AOL chatroom BS, not constructive. I posted above, how I would remove swirls, but everyone has their favored manner.
As far as this new product is concerned...prevent stonechips? I can't quite buy that. Even the 3M clear tape doesn't completely protect for that. 25 coats? Geez....we "Z zealots" get all kinds of static if we mention applying a few coats of polish as being too much work.
One more thing about swirls. Viper paint is soft. Avoid using abrasives until necessary. Paint is only a few mils thick, so each time you cut it with abrasives, you make it that much thinner.
Chips. I have used Langka with goods results. There is a bit of a learning curve, but the end result can be excellent and it sure beats sandpaper.
Joisey Jay…welcome to the VCA forum!
I hope you’ll have a good time here. Lots of helpful and knowledgeable folks.I took a look at your profile, and saw your name listed. Did you realize that you and the President of Liquid Glass share the same name? Uncanny.
(I sincerely hope that this is not the President of a company using a pseudonym and speaking in third party to hype product. That would only diminish the product and company’s credibility.)
I'm all for legitimate discussion about any product or technique. "This stinks that rules" is AOL chatroom BS, not constructive. I posted above, how I would remove swirls, but everyone has their favored manner.
As far as this new product is concerned...prevent stonechips? I can't quite buy that. Even the 3M clear tape doesn't completely protect for that. 25 coats? Geez....we "Z zealots" get all kinds of static if we mention applying a few coats of polish as being too much work.
One more thing about swirls. Viper paint is soft. Avoid using abrasives until necessary. Paint is only a few mils thick, so each time you cut it with abrasives, you make it that much thinner.
Chips. I have used Langka with goods results. There is a bit of a learning curve, but the end result can be excellent and it sure beats sandpaper.
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Re: Liquid Glass PTFE-6
Plum,
I have used just about everything.... And for someone to say Zaino does not last is very shocking. I have found Zaino to be one of the most durable polished I ever used. One coat last me about 4-6 months, and that's my other car that is kept outside. People have complaints about Zaino, but durability is usually not one of them.
Plum,
I have used just about everything.... And for someone to say Zaino does not last is very shocking. I have found Zaino to be one of the most durable polished I ever used. One coat last me about 4-6 months, and that's my other car that is kept outside. People have complaints about Zaino, but durability is usually not one of them.
PaulH
Enthusiast
swirl removal
are there body shops (or other types of shops) that will remove swirls for you... not just a full detail but more?? what does it mean to wet sand?
are there body shops (or other types of shops) that will remove swirls for you... not just a full detail but more?? what does it mean to wet sand?
Viperbass
Enthusiast
Re: swirl removal
In answer to your question, yes, there are body shops that will go over the paint with a buffer. It is just as easy to do it yourself with a good orbital like a Porter Cable and a whole lot cheaper. You will find even if you have not used one before, there is not much of a learning curve with an orbital buffer. With a rotary buffer, that is a different story. Only someone with experience should try a rotary buffer on a Viper.
Wet sanding or color sanding as it is sometimes called is a process using pre-soaked fine grit (ex. 2000 grit) sandpaper to gently sand out paint imperfections such as orange peel. When you are painting a car, wet sanding can be done in between coats especially the clear to achieve a flawless finish in the end. I have used this technique also with guitar refinishing. This should only be done by someone with experience as you can easily sand through the clear into the color if you are not careful. After the wet sanding is over, you will still need to buff with successively finer compound to achieve a mirror finish.
Hope this helps.
Kurt
In answer to your question, yes, there are body shops that will go over the paint with a buffer. It is just as easy to do it yourself with a good orbital like a Porter Cable and a whole lot cheaper. You will find even if you have not used one before, there is not much of a learning curve with an orbital buffer. With a rotary buffer, that is a different story. Only someone with experience should try a rotary buffer on a Viper.
Wet sanding or color sanding as it is sometimes called is a process using pre-soaked fine grit (ex. 2000 grit) sandpaper to gently sand out paint imperfections such as orange peel. When you are painting a car, wet sanding can be done in between coats especially the clear to achieve a flawless finish in the end. I have used this technique also with guitar refinishing. This should only be done by someone with experience as you can easily sand through the clear into the color if you are not careful. After the wet sanding is over, you will still need to buff with successively finer compound to achieve a mirror finish.
Hope this helps.
Kurt
Matt M PA
Enthusiast
Matt M PA
Enthusiast
Re: swirl removal
Some more info on Teflon....
To point to some concrete evidence regarding Teflon. This comes from
Professional Carwashing & Detailing magazine, January, 1989, page 110.
A direct quote:
My conclusion is based on the information I have gathered in the past
year from representatives, lab technicians and chemists from many leading car care product companies, including DuPont, the maker of Teflon. According to G.R. Ansul of DuPont's Car Care Products Division, "The addition of a Teflon fluoropolymer resin does nothing to enhance the properties of a car wax. We have no data that indicates the use of Teflon fluorpolymer resins is beneficial in car waxes, and we have not seen data from other people that supports this position." Ansul also notes that, "Unless Teflon is applied at 700 degrees F (371degrees C), it is not a viable ingredient, and it is 100 percent useless in protecting the paint's finish."
Some more info on Teflon....
To point to some concrete evidence regarding Teflon. This comes from
Professional Carwashing & Detailing magazine, January, 1989, page 110.
A direct quote:
My conclusion is based on the information I have gathered in the past
year from representatives, lab technicians and chemists from many leading car care product companies, including DuPont, the maker of Teflon. According to G.R. Ansul of DuPont's Car Care Products Division, "The addition of a Teflon fluoropolymer resin does nothing to enhance the properties of a car wax. We have no data that indicates the use of Teflon fluorpolymer resins is beneficial in car waxes, and we have not seen data from other people that supports this position." Ansul also notes that, "Unless Teflon is applied at 700 degrees F (371degrees C), it is not a viable ingredient, and it is 100 percent useless in protecting the paint's finish."
LETHAL GTS
Viper Owner
Re: Liquid Glass PTFE-6
So why do they have a Vette on their products and not a Ferrari??
So why do they have a Vette on their products and not a Ferrari??
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ROCKET62
Has Left the Room!
Re: Liquid Glass PTFE-6
Joisey J - been pretty quite after being called out by Matt? I would tend to agree with him in that less credence is added if you don't identify yourself. If you have a good product for us Viper owners - please do share as we are all looking for the "holy grail" of car wax. There are quite a few that I'm sure would do a head to head comparison and if your product does as claimed - you would get a lot of free publicity if that's what you're looking for.
Joisey J - been pretty quite after being called out by Matt? I would tend to agree with him in that less credence is added if you don't identify yourself. If you have a good product for us Viper owners - please do share as we are all looking for the "holy grail" of car wax. There are quite a few that I'm sure would do a head to head comparison and if your product does as claimed - you would get a lot of free publicity if that's what you're looking for.
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