Bleeding clutch?

[boplaw]

Quick question - I assume I need to lift car to get to slave cylinder bleeder on the bellhousing. Correct? Thanks in advance.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

That's correct.

 

[Janni]

We've been using a "my-t-vac" with a very fine tip and suctioning out through the loosened bleed screw on the bellhousing for a few years now. One person ***** and the other keeps the reservoir filled.

We've found that the stuff gets pretty nasty, but has never caused a failure. Also, **** the fluid out of the reservoir and clean out the bottom - as a lot of black funk seems to collect there. Then refill and start flushing.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Janni, what fluid are you using in the clutch hydraulics? Factory stuff or something else?

 

[Flash1034]

I replaced mine with Ate Blue Racing Brake Fluid. Priced right, racetrack proven.

Works great.

Flash

 

[boplaw]

We've been using a "my-t-vac" with a very fine tip and suctioning out through the loosened bleed screw on the bellhousing for a few years now. One person ***** and the other keeps the reservoir filled.

We've found that the stuff gets pretty nasty, but has never caused a failure. Also, **** the fluid out of the reservoir and clean out the bottom - as a lot of black funk seems to collect there. Then refill and start flushing.

As you know Janni I am a gentleman, so I shall not comment on your procedure.

However, where may I procure this "my-t-vac" of which you speak?

And thank you too Kurtis.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

You got it buddy.

Procurement of said Mityvac can be made possible through a short visit to the following sites;

tool source

cycle gear

or most other online tool houses.

 

[boplaw]

Cool. There is a Cycle Gear on my commute.

I was just there on Saturday. One of the sales guys wanted to go for a ride in my car so I took him for a quick spin and used up some more of the run flats.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

have him give you jobber price on the pump

 

[Flash1034]

Is there a "brake bleeder' type screw on the clutch slave cylinder?

Flash

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Yes, you should use a 1/4 inch drive ratchet with a long socket. 10 or 11 mm or can't remember which.

 

[Janni]

We're using Castrol SRF - but that's because Henry likes to *** money away and like "consistency" in fluids. If I had DOT4 brake fluid around, I'd just do that. Keeping it clean is good - it sure as heck doesn't need the high temp and low hygroscopic nature of expensive brake fluid.

And thank you for not taking the shot when I led with my chin. However, the smilie did prove I knew I was leaving myself wide open.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Since it is not subjected to the same pressures or temperatures, (and because for a time I had a leak) I tried thin SAE 5W-20 engine oil. Works fine, is not too thick when cold. The rubber seals can handle it fine (they handle brake fluid) and engine oil is more tolerant of water.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Since it is not subjected to the same pressures or temperatures, (and because for a time I had a leak) I tried thin SAE 5W-20 engine oil. Works fine, is not too thick when cold. The rubber seals can handle it fine (they handle brake fluid) and engine oil is more tolerant of water.

You are saying you use engine oil instead of brake fluid in your clutch hydraulics? The benifit is that it is more resistant to water contamination than brake fluid?

I would think, at a minimum, it would be a pain in the ass to bleed all the air out of a thick oil like that.

 

[slaughterj]

Might as well through this reminder in here: don't use AP600 Racing/Super Fluid as clutch fluid, per: http://www.safequipracingproducts.com/brake_fluids.htm

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

You are saying you use engine oil instead of brake fluid in your clutch hydraulics? The benifit is that it is more resistant to water contamination than brake fluid?

I would think, at a minimum, it would be a pain in the ass to bleed all the air out of a thick oil like that.

1) yes, although I did it for an emergency leak problem. Engine oil may or may not hold much more water, but it does have additives for corrosion protection.

2) no. 5W-20 is pretty thin. ATF and xxW-20 are almost as thin as some DOT 5 brake fluids.

 

[Viper X]

I've had good luck with Motul RBF 600. Not such good luck with OE fluid.

Dan

 

[ILLSMOQ]

I also run RBF600 in the brakes and the clutch.

 

[boplaw]

OK, the fluid was dirty - bought a MITYVAC and flushed. It had debris but flowed clear in the end.

Unfortunately, engagement is still near the floor and getting worse - almost didn't make it back into the garage. No leaks and no high gear slippage. Pumping doesn't appear to help.

Going for teardown tomorrow.

 

[Janni]

I suspect it's the slave - we've had that go out and the symptoms were the same. Folks will tell you that that "doesn't make sense", but that's what it is.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

This problem is what prompted you to do the flush or is this problem something that came about after the flush?

If you were having this problem before the flush and still had it after the flush, then I would bet it's the slave (though it could be the master too) as Janni said. Ford and GM also use a version of this slave cylinder and they are prone to failure, which ***** since you have to pull the trans to get to it. When it's clutch time on these cars a new slave should always be one of the items replaced since your in there anyway...unless it is relativley new. Your plan for a free clutch install might just happen


I would get a couple cans of brake cleaner and spray away any proof of your efforts to correct the problem. If they see a puddle of brake fluid in the bell housing they may try to...you know

If it happend after the flush and it was fine before, you must have air in the system....they can be hard to bleed sometimes....keep pumping Sometimes I'll even use a small rubber diaphram on the resivour to try to force fluid through the system while pumping. That does the trick sometimes.

 

[boplaw]

Yes, that is what prompted me to flush it in the first place.

It just puzzled me since I wasn't losing any fluid.

My friend owns the dealership so I am not terribly concerned my efforts to correct it will hinder the warranty claim.

Thanks again.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

All things considered, if you have the time and inclination, try using a thicker engine oil just to see what difference it makes. Maybe the dealer friend will let you do it or try it themselves.

Otherwise, it sounds like a bad master cylinder does on brakes. Not doubting the real world experience, but is there a sign that it is the slave and not the master?

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Otherwise, it sounds like a bad master cylinder does on brakes. Not doubting the real world experience, but is there a sign that it is the slave and not the master?

I don't know of a way to tell which one it is for sure.

In my experiance it has been the slave over the master most of the time. Typically, I would replace both components if there was a problem with the hydraulic system.

 

[boplaw]

Well, I get a call from the SA today and he says my tech told him I need to replace the master, slave, clutch, pressure plate, AND flywheel.

And none of it is covered under warranty. Then he proceeds to tell me the tech hasn't even taken the tranny out yet. YHGTBFKM.

I laughed and told him to take the transmission out and call me when the insurance adjuster is there so we can both inspect and discuss the cause of the failure.

 

[Janni]

oh my - you buggered it up good.

 

[boplaw]

Phhht. I just told him I know Janni Cone and if I had to I would fly her in to be my expert witness. Dead silence.

 

[Janni]

That damage does seem kinda excessive. We've dorked up a bunch of stuff - but never taken out all those components at once. Hmmmm.

I am glad dropping my name instilled such fear - feel free to use it again.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

I once found a pair of x-ray glasses in a box of Cap'n Crunch...maybe this guy also likes that cereal.......

 

[boplaw]

He took the inspection plate off and said the clutch is coming apart. Fair enough but they wanted to charge me $780 for the slave, pilot, disc, and pp. Surprisingly, the fw was only $143, which makes no sense to me.

I ordered a LuK clutch kit and slave from Clutch City for $410 shipped. They claim the slave is OEM and they have outstanding feedback:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Inte...011QQitemZ320082647512QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

Now I am considering going with a Fidenza flywheel. Worth it? I would do a search but am short on time today.