Can someone explain the viper gts cams to me??

[Jack B]

As a reminder, the RT/10 cams/pistons changed at the same time as the GTS.

The only reason to change from cast to forged pistons is if you plan to super or turbocharge the engine as the cast pistons can only handle so many pounds of boost. (I think, about 8)

I've been around these cars long enough to remember when the 2000s came out. They were penalized at Viper Days racing because they were faster enough than the earlier cars to warrant it.

If memory serves, it was a steel gray 2000 RT/10 at Englishtown Raceway Park that ran the fastest 1/4.

penalized due to abs

 

[mattdillon]

But you really can't put a price on teasing sensitive creampuff owners about their "weak" cars...
That's been going on forever.

Jon, you & Plum both know I've always called mine a Creampuff. I knew when I went looking for a Viper, it was all about the color not the fastest. I also knew I was NEVER going to do ANY Internal work & wanted to keep it basically stock (smooth tubes, RT high flows, hf mufflers) & as dependable as possible, but I still feel pretty strongly about the 3.55's! Seems like I'd heard on one of the other forums (Porsche I think) about the earlier Vipers were pretty bad about jumping out of gear while idling in neutral (is that because of the rougher idling cams?) Or is there even any truth to that.

 

[Ron]

Not sure how the trans can jump out of gear while in neutral, but the Porsche board comment was most likely based on the pansy complaint of "neutral gear rattle" in early GENII's.

The issue was "solved" by changing the factory fill from Dexron 3 ATF to a heavier Mopar Synthetic Gear Lube (Castrol Syntorque). 4x as expensive and in my opinion not as smooth shifting. I tried it and quickly reverted to the current spec, Mopar ATF+4.

Factory fill became the gear lube for a while but Dodge went back to ATF+4 for later GEN Vipers and all other T-56's of that era, (Mustangs and such) were always ATF factory filled. The Tremac web site at one point detailed this quite well.

 

[mattdillon]

Ron, thanks for clarifing that for me. It's been awhile back when I'd seen it & that's probably what they were talking about (I most likely got it miscrewed). Most times when I've read things on the Porsche or Vette forums, they usually don't have a lot of good things to say about Vipers, other than most will agree they are fast! jmo

 

[Matt M PA]

JackB is probably right about an ABS penality, I have no memory of that, but of course that wouldn't have happened until 2001.

I do remember (unless my memory is completely out to lunch) that the summer I took delivery of my 2000... those cars were penalized.

.

 

[PDCjonny]

Nice try anyway Matt.

 

[APGTS]

660 rwhp/710 rwtrq with Belanger headers,no cats and Corsa track exhaust.

wow nice numbers id imagine 710rwtq is a fun time.

 

[Red Snake]

wow nice numbers id imagine 710rwtq is a fun time.

Indeed. It pulls quite hard.

 

[FastMatt]

Yes. Creampuff's don't sound like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnecpPSaDiw

here is the sound of my Creampuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azzy7v_TZEc

 

[Red Snake]

You did a nice job making your creampuff sound like a forged motor/708 cam car.


I don't blame you, I would have too.

 

[FastMatt]

You did a nice job making your creampuff sound like a forged motor/708 cam car.


I don't blame you, I would have too.

hehe

Striker heads/cam/paxton car making 873 rwhp on the stock "week" Cream puff pistons too This weekend I plan on doing a pully swap and shooting for 950+ rwhp.

here is one with some reving

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spMVqZ2GhCk

 

[Camfab]

They were penalized because they made more power, 2000 did not have ABS.

 

[Dom426h]

Harland Sharps are prone to failure (do a search). Spend a little more and get some T&D's or spend a lot more and get some Jesels.

Please provide links to the threads that you are referring to. The only failure i remember reading about were on Twisters car and i dont expect anything to work on his car

The HarlandSharps have been recommened by most of our repatable tuners including:
-ROE Racing,
-DC Performance,
-GregGood,
-and the Wizard at TatorsDodge

If you are seriously concerned about the rockers give em all a call as they have all installed plenty and would be able to comment on Fisrt hand experience.

more info here on the diff between various RR's:
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/644043-Harland-Sharpe-1-7-RR-s-vs-T-amp-D
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/597419-Pushrod-length-with-Harland-Sharps
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/565618-Crower-Roller-Rockers-or-T-amp-D.-Which-are-Better

 

[Red Snake]

Please provide links to the threads that you are referring to. The only failure i remember reading about were on Twisters car and i dont expect anything to work on his car

The HarlandSharps have been recommened by most of our repatable tuners including:
-ROE Racing,
-DC Performance,
-GregGood,
-and the Wizard at TatorsDodge

If you are seriously concerned about the rockers give em all a call as they have all installed plenty and would be able to comment on Fisrt hand experience.

more info here on the diff between various RR's:
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/644043-Harland-Sharpe-1-7-RR-s-vs-T-amp-D
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/597419-Pushrod-length-with-Harland-Sharps
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/565618-Crower-Roller-Rockers-or-T-amp-D.-Which-are-Better

There are two other failures that I am aware of. But I know a lot of people like the HS. So I'll leave it at this......I think the HS rockers are an affordable upgrade over stock. But for my car, I would spend the money and get a set of shaft mounted rockers like T&D or Jesel. They are better and worth the extra cost IMO.

Just my opinion, take it for what its worth (about 2 cents).

 

[mattdillon]

FastMatt, you make all of us Creampuff owners Proud! Not Only did you make it SOUND like a forged motor/708 cam car, I think you can Back It Up too!

 

[Camfab]

There are two other failures that I am aware of. But I know a lot of people like the HS. So I'll leave it at this......I think the HS rockers are an affordable upgrade over stock. But for my car, I would spend the money and get a set of shaft mounted rockers like T&D or Jesel. They are better and worth the extra cost IMO.

Just my opinion, take it for what its worth (about 2 cents).

+1 on your opinion.

 

[plumcrazy]

red snake speaks the truth but i believe the issues were on SC'd cars IIRC

fastmatt aint got no 708 cam in his car......

 

[mattdillon]

red snake speaks the truth but i believe the issues were on SC'd cars IIRC

fastmatt aint got no 708 cam in his car......

Plum, who said he did?

 

[FastMatt]

fastmatt aint got no 708 cam in his car......

your right

 

[Matt M PA]

I knew my memory wasn't "that" bad. Thanks very much to Bill Pemberton on another thread for affirming my comment about the model year 2000 penalty in Viper Days. (Thanks also to Camfab)
My comments weren't merely a "good try"...but based on fact.

From Bill's other post.....

In the land of automobile perception , things often become reality that are not necessarily true. The funny thing is that in 2000 when the cast pistons came out, visitors to the Plant were told about the new motor, about how it had more power and was quite evolutionary. This came to an end by Nov./Dec. at the Plant, as Dodge did not want this information out to the public or competition. Skip Thomas was setting up the Matrix for Viper Days and 2000 Snakes were given an added point for the increase that was known. Bingo, Dodge found out and they came down hard, as frankly they did not want this information out , especially for the Competition to know.

If interested....you can read more on Bill's post at:
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/651808-What-year-is-best

 

[Ron]

Bill is certainly one of the people that should be in the know. That said, what IS the horsepower difference and what competitors would be concerned about a (guessing) 15HP difference on a 450 horsepower car? Wouldn't Dodge market a power increase versus prior years help increase the sales of these cars, which toward the end of the run was slowing? Heck, they marketed a 10 horsepower increase in the 1998 GTS-R because they added smooth tubes and K&N's. And then we have the history of dyno runs, which I just ran through again and while there are certainly variances I see no increase in 2000 ~ 2002's stock to stock. If anything an average is slightly below the earlier years.

Fun to speculate and bat back and forth, but not a big deal either way. They're all fast -

Signed,

Still Skeptical

 

[Steve-Indy]

To add to Ron's info...our 1999 ACR was "marketed" as 460 HP(smooth tubes, K&N's)...but I'm not sure that number wasn't reduced to 450 HP in the info for later ACR's such as 01 & 02. Anyone REALLY remember??

 

[slitherv10]

Perhaps they don't. All that matters is that they make at least 450 at the flywheel. Perhaps 1996 ~ 1999 make more and are underrated at 450.

While absolutely not scientific, I ran many a dyno day and on average saw the earlier GENII's having 10 ~ 20 more RWHP then later years stock versus stock same dyno same day.

I found out the same details from JonB. 1996 GTS had @465 HP but was underated (450HP) for future emission purposes.

 

[slitherv10]

FastMatt, you make all of us Creampuff owners Proud! Not Only did you make it SOUND like a forged motor/708 cam car, I think you can Back It Up too!

Would have been cheaper to buy a forged motor/708cam car add headers and exhaust and "Voila"..you got the sound

 

[plumcrazy]

mattdillon, i thought you said it was a 708 cam...sorry.

FastMatt, you make all of us Creampuff owners Proud! Not Only did you make it SOUND like a forged motor/708 cam car, I think you can Back It Up too!

 

[FastMatt]

Would have been cheaper to buy a forged motor/708cam car add headers and exhaust and "Voila"..you got the sound

a 708 cam car does not sound anything like my car.

 

[mattdillon]

Would have been cheaper to buy a forged motor/708cam car add headers and exhaust and "Voila"..you got the sound

NOT after you have to paint the car Steel Gray! Only reason I bought my Creampuff (color). I bought mine for looks more so than sound.

 

[APGTS]

FastMatt with just the paxton, full exhaust, and 93+**** what kinda power ya think a 98 gts could make? 7ish rwhp?

 

[FastMatt]

NOT after you have to paint the car Steel Gray! Only reason I bought my Creampuff (color). I bought mine for looks more so than sound.

That's a grate color, my 1st viper was a 2000 Steel gray with stripes ACR. I would like to get another one some day just like it and just do a mild heads/cam build on it and park it next to my Paxton car.

 

[FastMatt]

FastMatt with just the paxton, full exhaust, and 93+**** what kinda power ya think a 98 gts could make? 7ish rwhp?

That just depends on how much boost you are planning on running.

I'm a firm believer in making the motor make power first then add boost as icing on the cake. I really dont like the way stock heads/cam paxton cars feel down low. They feel like a stock car till you get the RPM's up. If I was going to do just one or the other heads/cam or a Paxton I would do the heads/cam it's a more fun to drive car. My car was a heads/cam 612 rwhp car for yrs before I got tired of it and wanted more, I then put NOS on it for a wile but I wanted the power all the time so I took the NOS off and did the Paxton. I ran it at 873 rwhp with the 3.25" pulley (6.5 psi peek boost on my set-up) for a wile and yesterday changed to a 3" pulley (making 8psi now). If I had to guess I would say it added 60-70rwhp. Next yr I'll probably go to the 2.75" pulley lol.