Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously . .

[ROGUE]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

Well Paolo.Yes I'm skeptical of the need for it and the ability to get traction on street tires.That being said.You know the Viper will have traction control etc. if power levels keep rising.So count me in for a traction controled mega HP car.Or maybe a computer as in AEM boost control level for each gear and RPM.Didn't know that boost is currently so programable.Right now I think I could use an extra 100HP or so.... GTS Bruce

Bruce, you would be very very surprised just how well these monster power cars hook up on street tires. Obviously it takes a little bit of consideration in the suspension setup but it's no major feat to get a 900rwhp car to hook up in 3rd gear. It's all in how the power is put to the ground and keeping everything very smooth. A driver with skills such as yourself would have no problem getting it under control and i'm sure you would have a blast hitting 200mph on the straights of your local track.

As per the nextel cup cars spinning the tires in 4th gear. Most all of that is due to the fact that they are on the ragged edge of lateral grip coming off the corner, it doesn't take much at all to make the tires spin in that condition. I'd be willing to bet on a dead straight road you could drop the clutch on a 3-4 shift and it wouldn't spin those slicks. Yeah you have to drive monster HP cars a little differently, but thats kinda par for the course.

Not too long ago Stielow had the Mule (TT 1st gen camaro) up at thunderhill, making a mere 800rwhp he hot lapped it all day long, and layed a beat down on a GT3 porsche that a P1 car would be envious of. You'd be surprised just how much fun another 200hp can be.

 

[ROCKET62]

It seems like it's been so long since there was any discussion about a single turbo system since all of the twins starting showing up - this post got me wondering whether a single turbo system would be more usable and driveable? Any thoughts?

 

[ROGUE]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

It seems like it's been so long since there was any discussion about a single turbo system since all of the twins starting showing up - this post got me wondering whether a single turbo system would be more usable and driveable? Any thoughts?

Sure, why wouldn't it be? There really isn't any advantage on a single vs twins, it's 95% package dependant, and what you can fit in there. There is virtually no difference between a big single and two equally sized twins.

But Dyno Daddy has his 101mm single turbo viper that was running very well.

 

[viprvenm]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

Thrill

Adrenaline Rush

Power

Blood Pumping

Looks

The fact that it is going to take you a while to find a GOOD race!

There are so many reasons to have over 7 to 800 HP in a Dodge Viper. It "IS" Heaven!

 

[Paolo Castellano]

It seems like it's been so long since there was any discussion about a single turbo system since all of the twins starting showing up - this post got me wondering whether a single turbo system would be more usable and driveable? Any thoughts?

Rocket62, a twin turbo setup will always be more efficient on a V-motor given the sizing of the twins matches the size of the single from an airflow and backpressure standpoint.

This is because the single always has to merge both banks together to go to the turbo.

Usually path to the single turbo is longer(losing heat energy which is a big component of what spools the turbo) and the piping is not as symmetrical. In absolute terms, the efficiency is diminished to some degree because of this.

Rogue touched on the packaging aspect as well.

Consider this:

The 76 GTS has a 4" compressor inlet. The 4" on 4" radius elbow that feeds it is 6".

The compressor inlet on the single 101 on Dyno Daddy's car is 7".

A 7" on 7" centerline radius is 10.5"[7 + .5(7)]

The turbo itself is probably 13" tall from compressor inlet to turbine outlet with a 5" exhaust(5" on 5" centerline radius + 7.5" space across car it takes up.)

So 10" + 13" + 7.5" = 30.5"

Keep in mind there is only about 28" between the the upper frame rails.

This makes it hard to get a good air filter on that beast not to mention fitting a crossbrace that all the Vipers have(that aluminum bar that is under the stock airbox)My system has a very nice crossbrace that supports the shock towers quite nicely.

The single can definitely work very well as Dyno Daddy has shown, but the amount of modification needed to the front of the car to make it fit would be more than most Viper owners probably could/would want to do.

I chose to do the twin 76's that only cut a few holes in the core support like the rest of the intercooled twin turbo systems out there.

There is no frame cutting involved and I can fit a monster pair of 1700+ CFM air filters on there(15" long per turbo)behind the foglights.

 

[ROCKET62]

Paolo,

Thank you for the info - very helpful. Your systems look very well thought out. I certainly understand that a twin is more efficient and easier to achieve bigger hp numbers, but from usability and drivability perspective - and addressing the original post - are the twins overkill for street applications and tires? I had the same question after reading the motor trend article that talked about the hennssssey system that seemed to scare the **** out of the editors.

Would a single turbo system be more driveable than a twin - assuming similar hp levels? Also, you seem to offer a very resonable priced entry level twin system - and what do you think a single turbo system would cost that would put out the same 650?

Thanks again for the info and education.

 

[DEADEYE]

I've got over 600 but I want more. Alot of high power cars around town.

 

[big-n-italian]

your turbo knowledge is amazing paolo! thanks for spending the time sharing!

 

[slaughterj]

<< I have daily driven a Viper for 5 years (80k+ miles), which involves plenty of "urban" driving, and the Viper does just fine >>

i know that slaughter.

the statement was made that "all the power (800 - 1,200HP) just seems unuseable to me".

i am just saying that the full capabilities of even a stock viper far exceeds the limits of urban streets and its full capacity is mostly unuseable/not used. is 500 hp fully used on the street? of course not.

we are driving cars capable of 200 MPH are we not? i really dont think it matters if it is 500 horses or 1200 IMO. ALL this "crazy viper horsepower" and the cars full capacity is mostly unuseable unless "you do these really cool high speed events/standing miles events, or if you are a ********* drag race lover". a car doing 45 mph on an urban street that is capable of 200 mph shows alot unused capacity in my book. i just dont think it matters how much horsepower it has.

lets face it, these things will ALWAYS BE monsters no matter how much horsepower they have. Seriously.

Okay, let's break this down with a little logic.

You displayed that a viper in factory stock form is mostly unuseable for urban streets too?. My statement was that it works fine. Then you state that the Viper's full capacity is mostly unusable on urban streets, perhaps clarifying that you were referring to higher speed aspects, etc. However, your point still does not make sense. Either you are making an irrelevant statement or an inaccurate one.

A 300HP Mustang does not see its 160 or so speed on the urban streets either, and many many cars "lesser" to the Viper do not use their capacity on the streets in that sense either, so if that is the direction you are going, what is your point? If that is the direction you are going, you are making an irrelevant point.

Even though I do not regularly see the north side of 150MPH on the urban streets, I do regularly accelerate to the full capacity of the Viper on the urban streets. So in that sense, I do use the full capacity on the urban streets, and your point is therefore an inaccurate one if you scale back your point from the irrelevance direction you seem to be going, as I discussed above.

But perhaps I am missing your point?

 

[PhoenixGTS]

Even though I do not regularly see the north side of 150MPH on the urban streets, I do regularly accelerate to the full capacity of the Viper on the urban streets. So in that sense, I do use the full capacity on the urban streets

This would not be the case if you had a 1,000 hp blown monster Viper, which is the whole point/question of this thread.

 

[houstonT]

I have not read through the whole thread, but let me just say this. With the right set-up, you can have a 1,000 rwhp on STREET tires that is not only easy to drive at WOT but very manageable/controllable. Paolo can attest to this as can I. My car is VERY easy to drive at 1,000 rwhp on street tires, it's all about the combination.
Peter

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Paolo,

Thank you for the info - very helpful. Your systems look very well thought out. I certainly understand that a twin is more efficient and easier to achieve bigger hp numbers, but from usability and drivability perspective - and addressing the original post - are the twins overkill for street applications and tires? I had the same question after reading the motor trend article that talked about the hennssssey system that seemed to scare the **** out of the editors.

Would a single turbo system be more driveable than a twin - assuming similar hp levels? Also, you seem to offer a very resonable priced entry level twin system - and what do you think a single turbo system would cost that would put out the same 650?



Thanks again for the info and education.

Rocket62, the cost between the single and twin is about a toss up in terms of parts cost. The two smaller wastegates are about the same as a much larger one to bypass the gases for the entire motor.

One big single is about the same cost as two moderately sized turbos.

The fitment issues and time to fabricate and cut and relocate what needs to be relocated for a single is not worth it to me.

The twins are more efficient all the way around from packaging, to symmetry of piping, getting cool air to the turbos, the pair smaller wheels moving the same air as the bigger wheel in the single will spool more efficiently from an inertial standpoint as well(I forgot to mention this point in the last post.)

So, to answer your question, it is not really whether a single could put out 650 RWHP.

A small enough one could do so easily, but the backpressure and reversion of the exhaust gases into the cylinder for the intake combustion cycle would be very bad.

My twin T-04 setup that is upgradeable from 650 RWHP to 1400+ RWHP is the best option for the average guy aho will;

1. Inevitably want more power......... LOL!

2. Not want to hack the living daylights out of the car getting rid of the AC condensor and crossbrace to fit the monster turbo that has a hard time fitting an air filter on it.

My system allows for the mounting of a pair of 1100(Each) HP turbos that get filtered(by monster filters), cool air that doen not cut even one piece of the frame to get it done.

You can start out with the entry level system and upgrade according to your budget and addiction to more and more power!

 

[big-n-italian]

<< Okay, let's break this down with a little logic. >>

OK, OK, OK. you are right, i am inaccurate and wrong. ok? sheesh .....

now, whats for dinner dear?

 

[Schulmann]

Guys, you are all like heavy drug users, sick gamblers or AA members.
HP addiction is a sever sickness.
Government should recognize it, so we could all sue Dodge because they didn't warned us when we bought our Vipers.

Running a 1300rwhp on street is insane.
Joe average will harvest all the electrical pole along the road with this type of rocket.
Sure it is streetable for drivers with Phd in Viper handling.


From mechanical point of view yes 1300rwhp is good for everyday use but there are other considerations.
Running 1300rwhp requires 109 oct fuel or even more.
That one is not even street legal in some states.
In addition you will have to increase the fuel tank size.
It will **** out the fuel like a Jet at take off.


But it all comes back to your financial resources available.
If money is no objection then you can do everything you want.
There are even some strange English who run $1M cars in the snow.
It’s their fun for winter.

I am happy with my 600rwhp Viper at least it runs on street fuel and let me spare some money for other things.

 

[ROGUE]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

From mechanical point of view yes 1300rwhp is good for everyday use but there are other considerations.
Running 1300rwhp requires 109 oct fuel or even more.
That one is not even street legal in some states.
In addition you will have to increase the fuel tank size.
It will **** out the fuel like a Jet at take off.

109 octane fuel? Says who? You can do 4 digits on regular 93 pump all day long.
"street legal" to get technical most headers are not legal in many states, so whats your point?

Nope, nobody has had to increase the fuel tank size yet.
Yes if you drive everywhere at wide open throttle it will **** fuel down. But I would be willing to bet on a highway cruise one of these 1000hp TT monsters gets BETTER mileage than a stock viper. Tuning and efficiency are cool like that.

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

The only thing I have to suggest is that if I were to have a 1000-1500hp Viper I would have a roll cage and other extra safety equipment if I were to actually use it all. Maybe even a fire suit. Hearing that people are smoking the tires at 140 nowadays with these awesome machines makes me envision myself losing control and rolling it several times. Not trying to be negative but realistic.

I give Kudos to those mechanics making this monster hp possible with real world driveability on pump gas. That is truly a feat.

 

[viper spray]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

Both of the Vipers that I have owned felt slow to me when they were stock.

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

The only thing I have to suggest is that if I were to have a 1000-1500hp Viper I would have a roll cage and other extra safety equipment if I were to actually use it all. Maybe even a fire suit. Hearing that people are smoking the tires at 140 nowadays with these awesome machines makes me envision myself losing control and rolling it several times. Not trying to be negative but realistic.

I give Kudos to those mechanics making this monster hp possible with real world driveability on pump gas. That is truly a feat.

Venomaholic, when the tires spin at 140-150 MPH, you have enough gyroscopic momentum in a straight line that you are less likely to go that far sideways as long as you are on a smooth road with no truck ruts.

I would recommend you envision instead yourself being a V-10 God at the wheel of a monster TT Viper smiling as you burn the tires off the car at 150 feeling ever so slightly the rear end drifting out a bit but the power keeps you going straight and you Fuc@!%& RULE!!!!!!!, You hit 200+MPH in an instant! Life is good! You are THE MAN! Women love you, children and men want to be like you........... well, maybe that's taking it a little too far, but you get the idea! LOL!

 

[SnakeBitten]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

You hit 200+MPH in an instant! Life is good! You are THE MAN! Women love you, children and men want to be like you........... well, maybe that's taking it a little too far, but you get the idea! LOL!

You forgot to mention the change of underwear that goes along with breaking 200mph...Sh!ty underwear aint **** to women ..I remember going around Alanta Motorspeedway in the passenger seat of one of teh Pettys Nascars back in 98 at around 190-200 and it was a rush but scarry as all shyte....Much respect to you guys that do the 200mph deed in streetcars with no roll cages etc...

 

[DodgeViper01]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

Always wondered the same thing but it is like Charley said, it is an addiction. Once you start modding, you can not stop. Is it pratical, of course not, but people are usually not thinking about it. Bragging rights, and knowing you have the power, is what it seems to be all about.

 

[ROGUE]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

You hit 200+MPH in an instant! Life is good! You are THE MAN! Women love you, children and men want to be like you........... well, maybe that's taking it a little too far, but you get the idea! LOL!

You forgot to mention the change of underwear that goes along with breaking 200mph...Sh!ty underwear aint **** to women ..I remember going around Alanta Motorspeedway in the passenger seat of one of teh Pettys Nascars back in 98 at around 190-200 and it was a rush but scarry as all shyte....Much respect to you guys that do the 200mph deed in streetcars with no roll cages etc...

200 in a race car? bah, The fun starts at 210 in an RT-10 with the top off.

As Paolo said, if you are on a clean road it's really no big deal when the tires break loose at 140+ It just wiggles around a bit, as long as YOU don't do anything stupid the car will keep going straight.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

High HP cars do not take kindly to snap throttle imputs, especially in lower gears. Experienced drivers lean when they can and cannot use full throttle. It is up to the driver, not the engine, how much power is applied.

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

High HP cars do not take kindly to snap throttle imputs, especially in lower gears. Experienced drivers lean when they can and cannot use full throttle. It is up to the driver, not the engine, how much power is applied.

Paul, you are correct.

The great thing about Joe Dell's car with my twin 76 GTS twin turbo setup is that it is so easy to modulate the power.

More throttle equals more load that equals more boost.

Not only can you feel the load, but you can also hear it!

With the monster air filters you can almost drive by the sound of the turbo whoosh!

That's especially helpful in the rain with a 1200 RWHP car on bald drag radials!

 

[slaughterj]

<< Okay, let's break this down with a little logic. >>

OK, OK, OK. you are right, i am inaccurate and wrong. ok? sheesh .....

now, whats for dinner dear?

I can't help it if you are making a nonsensical statement and can't back it up, I was just trying to figure out if what you said actually did make any sense, apparently not!

 

[Krazy PSI]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

As Paolo stated it's all in the setup and design. If you have a pair of GT35's and the power hits at 2500rpm it's going to be very very hard to control. With the larger turbos they come in a bit later, which some call "laggy" but it actually makes the car 10x easier to drive on a daily basis. It's not to the point of being slow and annoying, just that you can comfortably cruise the car around w/o blowing the tires off with every throttle movement. The fact that the turbos never really reach full boost in the lower gears helps enormously as well. On street tires in 1st and 2nd gear just doesn't put enough load on the motor to get much over 8 psi, this is just about ideal as it's right at the limit of traction. Put some slicks on and you can slam 15psi in the lower gears all day long if you wish.

I was absolutely astounded how well Dell's car hooked up when I drove it. With some suspension adjustment and a little common sense you can absolutely drive these 1000+ rwhp cars on a daily basis. I was very very surprised how docile Joe's car is, given the fact that it was making north of 1200rwhp at the time. Yeah it started to spin the drag radials a bit at 140mph but it was easily controlled via throttle input.

Just how tame are they? Put it to you this way. Paolo and myself drove Dell's car back home from lunch, in the RAIN, on well worn Drag Radials, and it never missed a beat. Car was just as tame as any stock viper.

It takes a little common sense, and a LOT of respect for the car, but it's not nearly as rude and violent as one would think.


That being said I feel pretty confidant in my next statement. I would say 90% of people who THINK they want a 1000+ hp car, don't have the balls to sit in the passenger seat when one is being driven hard, let alone climb behind the wheel.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh reeeeaaalllllyyyyy!

 

[ROGUE]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh reeeeaaalllllyyyyy!

I'm bringing a special diaper just for you Krazy, don't need you messing up the interior when you [******] your pants.

 

[Krazy PSI]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh reeeeaaalllllyyyyy!

I'm bringing a special diaper just for you Krazy, don't need you messing up the interior when you [******] your pants.

Why are YOU not accepting private messages.

 

[ROGUE]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

Why are YOU not accepting private messages. [/quote

I have NO idea. Thats TWICE now it's done that in the past few days. Should be fixed now.

 

[slaughterj]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh reeeeaaalllllyyyyy!

I'm bringing a special diaper just for you Krazy, don't need you messing up the interior when you [******] your pants.

Why are YOU not accepting private messages.

Because he's scared!

 

[Inferno]

Re: Can you honestly use all this crazy boosted Viper horsepower? Seriously

Why are YOU not accepting private messages. [/quote

I have NO idea. Thats TWICE now it's done that in the past few days. Should be fixed now.

Rogue, Slaughter, what's going on bro's. Good to see familiar faces!