Car and Driver Article

[08viperviolet]

Just got the new Car and Driver and of course they put the Viper in last place. If they are testing for the best car why do they always put trunk volume features,rebates/extras,ergonomics, and driver comfort. I love my 08 and also drive it everyday but no one else I know will drive these other cars everyday either. Whish they would give the devil its due, or in this case the devil is our snakes. Just my rant.

Joshua

 

[Rich Wesorick]

I can't figure out why they didn't use an ACR against the ZR1

 

[Martin]

It amazes me how the Viper does so poorly in today's magazines. Back in '96/'97 the GTS was the darling of virtually every magazine out there - and now the '08/'09 Vipers are SOOO much better in SOOO many different ways. Yet, they get killed in all the reviews. Sure, the other cars got better, too - but not THAT much better....

Some of it has to do with today's mindset. Back in the mid-nineties, we were just coming out of a recession, the dot-com boom was just underway, and an over-the-top car like the GTS was just what the world needed. Today, I guess trunk space, comfort, and practicality are higher on the list of must-haves than performance, fun and flamboyance.

 

[Brian GTS]

It all comes down to cup holders which is why I don't read comparison articles most of the time. Most people just don't "get it".

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

It all comes down to cup holders which is why I don't read comparison articles most of the time. Most people just don't "get it".

Hey we got a cupholder.

 

[treesnake]

I can't figure out why they didn't use an ACR against the ZR1

That's just one thing... After the ACR whipped 'em at Nurburgring, there is no way they would take the chance on losing...AGAIN. They test Corvettes "flagship" against a "production" Viper....

HOWEVER, the Facts in the article are interesting. I don't have the article in front of me but I remember that the Viper came in 1st place in a lot of the performance testing. I seriously don't think the Vette won any performance aspect of importance ( I think it did win best access to ashtray...)The Corvette was also more expensive than the Viper. The Viper got better mileage etc... After scanning the article and seeing the FACTS mentioned above, I could hardly believe that they rated the Corvette number 1. Above a Lambo, an AMG Mercedes and a "stock" Viper.

*** This is not a Corvette bash. I would say the same things about any car that was rated above another one DESPITE the FACTS of performance.

 

[mad0953]

Articles like the one in Car and Driver that you allude to is the reason I cancelled that rancid rag and also the reason I will let my subscriptions to MT and Road and Track expire......all of the writers there are biased towards crap. They should change the names of their rags to Crap and Diaper, Motor **** and Drop a Load and Crack.

 

[PacificSEASnake]

The title of this thread is a typo. Should be "Car and RIDER..."

 

[Flash1034]

It would have been nice if Dodge would have supplied at least a demo car with the upograded bezel and two tone interior for the tests. Also, a brighter colored car than the one thats in all the mags.

Flash

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

It's understandable. They don't feel comfortable in a race car. They feel comfortable in sedans and the like. They should stick to critiquing those.

 

[conceptpi916]

Corvette ZR1 vs. SL65 AMG Black Series, Murciélago LP640, Viper SRT10 - Coupes/Comparison Test/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

 

[conceptpi916]

Hey it could be worse, the $400k lambo got beat by a Corvette

 

[eucharistos]

Corvette ZR1 vs. SL65 AMG Black Series, Murciélago LP640, Viper SRT10 - Coupes/Comparison Test/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

thanks for the link

 

[Asp Man]

C&D are never ones to let the facts get in the way. And they know which side thier bread is buttered on.

 

[Viper X]

One of our local members wrote in to C & D and called them "Car and Weenies". He's correct. They have become much like the mainstream liberal media in their editorializing "er", a, reporting.

1 - Funny how the new ZR1 won't go over 140 mph without another gear change. Anyone think that's why they went with 0 to 140mph times instead of 0 to 150 mph times? I'd bet the Viper wins that contest too.

2 - Check the transmission ratings. Vette was higher there too. Don't the two cars, Viper and Vette both use the same trans with different ratios, i.e. a Tremec 6060???

They are sooooo biased it isn't funny.

Dan

 

[FastZilla]

I have kept up with the Viper since they came out in `92 and know mostly all of the “magazine” specs. IMO this is truly the only American supercar since the Ford GT-40 & Cobra Daytona of the `60’s/`70’s – I’ll be fair and include the new GT (GT-44) in there as well. I’ve been waiting on the Viper to hit is “pinnacle”, again IMO, and since this looks like the end – well the ACR is it. I was sincerely hoping to see the Viper by 2012 hit 750hp stock – just a juvenile hp number that I’ve considered the “****” since high school. I’ve driven an `06 SRT balls out and can only describe be the acceleration & power and “violent”. Had I never driven one I’d probably be just be another “enthusiast” with a strong lust for the Viper – kind of like the Vette guys who most, IMO, “settled” for the lesser car and rationalize their decision with “I saved $40k – and if I put the $40k back into the car it’ll walk all over a Viper”. Kind of reminds me of high school – “If I do this and that to my Mustang, I’ll walk all over a Vette”. Folks will never admit it but what they are really trying to say is “I really wish I had a Vette” (Mustang owners) or “I really wish I had a Viper” (Vette owners) but for whatever reason they didn’t buy the better car & human nature is to rationalize that you have the better car, one way or another.

I firmly feel if you want the "bang for the buck" go-fast - buy the $45k GT500 (500hp). If you want the ultimate in performance daily driving and road tripping - buy the Vette. If you want the ultimate fringe of DOT legality where the lines between track and street are very blurry...Well, Viper. I have always felt the Viper was built around the philosophy that the driver is merely "additional weight". I was very surprised to learn they have adjustable peddles & A/C (Remember the Cobra "R" - No A/C - Yeah, one "hot" seller in TX - pun intended).

Again IMO.

 

[ViperGal]

It all comes down to cup holders which is why I don't read comparison articles most of the time. Most people just don't "get it".

Ah but the lack of cup holders keeps our backsides/bumms trim thus we think the seats are a score of 8 or above and those used to cup-holder cars rate the seats only a 5!

That said I believe it is the sour grapes syndrome - I cannot have a grape so they are probably sour anyway...

I LOVE MY VIPER!

 

[RoadiJeff]

I firmly feel if you want the "bang for the buck" go-fast - buy the $45k GT500 (500hp)

Actually, if someone is looking for the best bang for their buck they should probably get a motorcycle such as the Yamaha YZF-R1. Although it "only" has slightly over 150 hp the power-to-weight ratio GREATLY overwhelms any street legal car. A 0-60 time of 3 seconds, for instance. That, plus the fact someone can own all that performance for around $11-12k.

 

[FastZilla]

Actually, if someone is looking for the best bang for their buck they should probably get a motorcycle such as the Yamaha YZF-R1. Although it "only" has slightly over 150 hp the power-to-weight ratio GREATLY overwhelms any street legal car. A 0-60 time of 3 seconds, for instance. That, plus the fact someone can own all that performance for around $11-12k.

I agree but you can't put a car seat on a bike

My 3yo wants a ride so I guess the car seat will get strapped into the Viper. He's really mad because his 10yp brother has already had 2 rides.

 

[1BADGTS]

Without going to advanced traction control or all wheel drive you really can not hook the power produced by the Gen 4s now on the stock Pilots (anyone who owns a Gen 4 will tell you this esp if its cold out )Throwing more horsepower without addressing the traction problem is insane.(Before the Gen 4 s came out certain SRT ENGINEERS cautioned that the next Gen Vipers were basically at the limit traction wise as to what the tire could get down to the pavement)

 

[1BADGTS]

Guys the reason the Viper never wins in these tests is because the mags critique on OVERALL AUTOMOBILE ASPECT not just performance.They do this for a reason, their marketing research revealS that is what the MAJORITY of their readers care about (the needs of the MANY outweigh the needs of the FEW).

 

[Rednels]

Guys the reason the Viper never wins in these tests is because the mags critique on OVERALL AUTOMOBILE ASPECT not just performance.They do this for a reason, their marketing research revealS that is what the MAJORITY of their readers care about (the needs of the MANY outweigh the needs of the FEW).

I disagree with that. When you write an article about cars that start at 100k and go up to 400k, you dont need to think about the needs of MANY. Most poeple cant affordt these cars. The ones who can, can also afford a lot of other cars, such as luxery cars. When they write articles on luxery cars they dont really rate them based on acceleration and handling, sure its a factor, just not a very big one. So, when rating sports cars, comforts and stuff like that should not be weighed very much.

The ZR1 and Viper are so close performance wise I think this argument is a moot point. I will agree with others that have stated the ZR1 is still just a vette.

I was seriously considering a ZR1, and finally decided on the viper (even though Im having to get a custom seat made so I can fit) because the vette is just a vette. And if the performance is the same, you might as well get the good looks and attention that go along with the viper.

Just my $.02

 

[FastZilla]

I disagree with that. When you write an article about cars that start at 100k and go up to 400k, you dont need to think about the needs of MANY. Most poeple cant affordt these cars. The ones who can, can also afford a lot of other cars, such as luxery cars. When they write articles on luxery cars they dont really rate them based on acceleration and handling, sure its a factor, just not a very big one. So, when rating sports cars, comforts and stuff like that should not be weighed very much.

The ZR1 and Viper are so close performance wise I think this argument is a moot point. I will agree with others that have stated the ZR1 is still just a vette.

I was seriously considering a ZR1, and finally decided on the viper (even though Im having to get a custom seat made so I can fit) because the vette is just a vette. And if the performance is the same, you might as well get the good looks and attention that go along with the viper.

Just my $.02

I agree.

A 10 second Mustang that will smoke 90% of our Vipers is still just a Mustang at the end of the day.

I got my windows tinted today and sure enough a Z06 pulled up - folks were walking right by the Z06 to look at the Viper. Granted it's an ACR but ACR or SRT I feel the same would have happened. The Viper is a supercar and the ZR1 is a really expensive Vette - Like the $83k GT500KR. I will say that I feel the ZR1 at least performs like a $130k car and the GT500KR is about $25k more expensive than it's performance yeild.

 

[RTTTTed]

As far as traction goes everyone knows that Michelin has been building new hp tires for the Viper since it's inception, right?

I found a historic story in a magazine that stated that Chrysler staged a test and tune for all Tire companies before they produced the Viper. Those tires were the worst to ever come on a Viper. Goodyear was the only other tire co. that showed up and all they brought was vette tires, which were really bad for traction (the first Viper was 400hp).

Michelin has invented better tires (except the runcraps) for every Gen of Viper.

The Zr1 even gets Michelins now. The PS2s have such great traction in the rain that they hook hard and squeal the tires in heavy rain! Traction is awesome with the PS2s and they are definitely the best tires ever on any supercar.

At VOI X the rain and the water truck was not enough to make the PS2s slimy in rain. Drifting was really tough because you were either hooked or you were spinning too fast for decent drifting. Listen to the tires squealing in this video taken at Milan. You can hear the tires and see the violent grip when they stop spinning. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hehAZeGAKiE[/media]

Ted

 

[1BADGTS]

As far as traction goes everyone knows that Michelin has been building new hp tires for the Viper since it's inception, right?

I found a historic story in a magazine that stated that Chrysler staged a test and tune for all Tire companies before they produced the Viper. Those tires were the worst to ever come on a Viper. Goodyear was the only other tire co. that showed up and all they brought was vette tires, which were really bad for traction (the first Viper was 400hp).

Michelin has invented better tires (except the runcraps) for every Gen of Viper.

The Zr1 even gets Michelins now. The PS2s have such great traction in the rain that they hook hard and squeal the tires in heavy rain! Traction is awesome with the PS2s and they are definitely the best tires ever on any supercar.

At VOI X the rain and the water truck was not enough to make the PS2s slimy in rain. Drifting was really tough because you were either hooked or you were spinning too fast for decent drifting. Listen to the tires squealing in this video taken at Milan. You can hear the tires and see the violent grip when they stop spinning. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hehAZeGAKiE[/media]

Ted

Really then please explain to me why no one ever has put a Gen 4 Viper in the 10s even though the car trapps at 130 mph(which ANY drag racer will tell you should be an easy 10 second pass ).Have you ever driven a Gen 4.My old Gen 4 had the second fastest pass ever recorded (11.3 at 129.7 )and even with the new PILOTS the car easily overwhelms the stock tires.Take notice of just how many Gen4 have been wrecked within the first 100 miles of driving.

 

[1BADGTS]

I disagree with that. When you write an article about cars that start at 100k and go up to 400k, you dont need to think about the needs of MANY. Most poeple cant affordt these cars. The ones who can, can also afford a lot of other cars, such as luxery cars. When they write articles on luxery cars they dont really rate them based on acceleration and handling, sure its a factor, just not a very big one. So, when rating sports cars, comforts and stuff like that should not be weighed very much.

The ZR1 and Viper are so close performance wise I think this argument is a moot point. I will agree with others that have stated the ZR1 is still just a vette.

I was seriously considering a ZR1, and finally decided on the viper (even though Im having to get a custom seat made so I can fit) because the vette is just a vette. And if the performance is the same, you might as well get the good looks and attention that go along with the viper.

Just my $.02

Even in the 100-400 grand range this buyer wants and has other critera besides just performance.(Ride ,features fit and finish,driver comfort ect )A buddy of mine for example owns numerious FERRARIS and other high end exotics(heavily involved in Ferrari Club ect )drove my Gen 4 - reaction was DODGE built a piece of plastic around an engine.(He loved the cars perf but just as the mags pointed out felt it was severely lacking in other areas.)Your comment about the Viper and Zr-1 being so close perf wise is dead because they are so close in perf (yet the Vette does other factors better )it WINS the test.

 

[1BADGTS]

Without going to advanced traction control or all wheel drive you really can not hook the power produced by the Gen 4s now on the stock Pilots (anyone who owns a Gen 4 will tell you this esp if its cold out )Throwing more horsepower without addressing the traction problem is insane.(Before the Gen 4 s came out certain SRT ENGINEERS cautioned that the next Gen Vipers were basically at the limit traction wise as to what the tire could get down to the pavement)

Ps take the new Ferrari 599 for example why when tested head to head with the Gen 4 does it easily out accelerate it despite the Gen 4 having a better power to weight ratio.-Techninal features

 

[VAViper]

C&D are never ones to let the facts get in the way. And they know which side thier bread is buttered on.

This is so true & the reason why I no longer subscribe I don't mind one being bias,I'm just not going to pay to read bias BS.

 

[1BADGTS]

I agree.

A 10 second Mustang that will smoke 90% of our Vipers is still just a Mustang at the end of the day.

I got my windows tinted today and sure enough a Z06 pulled up - folks were walking right by the Z06 to look at the Viper. Granted it's an ACR but ACR or SRT I feel the same would have happened. The Viper is a supercar and the ZR1 is a really expensive Vette - Like the $83k GT500KR. I will say that I feel the ZR1 at least performs like a $130k car and the GT500KR is about $25k more expensive than it's performance yeild.

The problem is they grade on alot of other aspects besides gawk factor .Every car in the test is so damn even perf wise it comes down to ride ,features fit and finish ect.

 

[RTTTTed]

Really then please explain to me why no one ever has put a Gen 4 Viper in the 10s even though the car trapps at 130 mph(which ANY drag racer will tell you should be an easy 10 second pass ).Have you ever driven a Gen 4.My old Gen 4 had the second fastest pass ever recorded (11.3 at 129.7 )and even with the new PILOTS the car easily overwhelms the stock tires.Take notice of just how many Gen4 have been wrecked within the first 100 miles of driving.

I can't believe that you've owned 4 vipers and never noticed the difference? The first tires were deadly in the rain. PS1s were great and the runcraps needed to be heated up for any traction. Wrecked my 98 GTS because of the runcraps in the rain. Bought new PS2 when JonB (the expert) told me that they had about 40% more traction than PS1s. Drove to the road track and found out that every other car was in the way. Watch the video.

I don't think that you've owned all Gens of Vipers or you wouldn't disagree with the experts and people that have run the different tires. For a vette guy you should know that their Goodyears are skinnier than Viper tires?

Ted