Car and Driver: Gen V Viper beats ZR1

[elanderholm]

I mentioned the word "Tarnished" in the sense that 50+ speakers, electronic lights and whistle's, hydraulic motor mounts, steel frame, plush interior etc. IMO the rawness of the Viper was form and function.
Big ci V-10. Power to weight etc. Which previous Vipers were. A rawness so to speak. I mentioned the Gen. IV ACR because I loved mine and didn't have a problem w/the interior at all. I don't need tons of launch modes and TC.
My TC is my right foot.
I'm not a Road Racer, but I've been around the Drag Strip a little bit.
I mentioned the List in the areas of what I thought the Gen. V Viper should be. Of course times are different than when the Gen. IV came out. However, they had plenty of time to really put out a runner.
Something along the lines of what I listed would make the Gen. V something a lot of us were expecting. The main problem I see w/this car is the focus was in the wrong area ref. improvement.
Plus, it's just to heavy.
Aside from that, the car looks great.

It might not be as light as you want, but it still has a big cube V10 and is lighter then the last iteration by a lot if you get the SRT version and AERO package.

My ACR has a steel frame. I get you wanted a lot of changes, but those things cost a lot and can only be made up by selling a lot of vehicles, see the vette for a perfect example. The standard cars sells a ton to subsidize the splurges on the Z06/ZR1. The viper doesn't have that luxury. Porsche does the same thing, while selling their GT3/GT2s for a small fortune. You want a viper like that it will cost a fortune. The low volume means big money.

I actually don't have a problem with a model like that, but most here want some kind of bargain basement 700+HP car with carbon brakes, etc. That's not going to happen unless you have a high volume model to subsidize it.

Also, pretty sure you can't make a new car in the US without TC.

 

[mnc2886]

The Gen. V Viper should have been :

Engine and Drivetrain :
522 ci V10 Why? 512 CI is quite enough. An extra 10 cubic inches doesn't offer much and ask the tuners about how you get to 522 CI. I don't want a offset crankshaft and SRT would never want to warranty that. Remember, if you increase a business' risk, you increase their desired return on investment. In other words, we pay more.
Forged Rotating Assembly I agree with this. Cost seems relatively minimal. It isn't cheap but since we stepped up with a more expensive "forged" piston, why didn't we just go ahead and use a high-end forged piston like Dan from Viper Specialty has mentioned.
Aggressive Cam intake and exhaust. We have to have a car that passes emissions. I think the Viper, especially the Gen V is pretty loud for a stock vehicle. Watch the Jay Leno's garage on the Gen V. As for the cam, emissions and drivability will take a front seat always.
Flywheel - heavy for TQ down low. Ummm, torque....the one thing any Viper is not missing. In fact, losing a little while gaining faster revs, lower weight, and higher top end power is a better choice. We got that with the Gen V. They used a 11 lb lighter flywheel in the Gen V.
Jesel Rocker system. Again, emissions if you are referring to lift. If you are referring to quality, then I'd agree they should be using good quality materials. I honestly have never heard of anyone complain about the rocker system on the Gen IV though..
Titanium Sodium Filled Valves. Didn't we get that?
Compression 11.5.1 ( Still be tuned for pump gas) I honestly think this wouldn't work on 91 octane and pass emission regulations. This is a mute point. What you really want is a certain power figure and power band. As long as they achieve, it doesn't matter.
ECU - programmable I agree this should be available. I think that this will happen.
Intake composite Already added to the Gen V.
No hydraulic motor mounts. I don't have an experience as to the sacrifice this would make on the drivability, but I heard it might not be good. I do admit the engine mounts are a common modification, so they do need to be better.
Larger TB's mechanical. Again, emissions and technology with the VVT took the driver's seat. You may not like it now, but realize it is a better technology. Eventually, cars wont even have camshafts anymore. This really isn't a big deal. Once tuning is available, this will be a beneficial feature with the VVT over a non VVT with mechanical TB.
3.42 gear , better gear ratios throughout the TQ range. I honestly want them to go back to the 3.07s. I didn't see a reason for SRT changing to 3.55s.
Close Ratio 6spd SRT did that on the Gen V.

This thing should be loafing at 720HP 690TQ This would be cool. Ask Ferrari if it is okay first....

Chassis :
Hydro Formed Alum. w/Magnesium Cradles Agreed. Not sure why SRT used a steel frame. I agree they have a good design, but wrong materials. The car needs to be lighter.
Chromoly structure support and reinforcement in doors. Agreed, but I don't know if this is legal or not. Write your congressman. Except if you do, he won't know, but he'll be quick to reference all the women and children that have been injured because of this situation and that it is Ron Paul's fault.

Body :
Carbon Fiber. Light weight composites. SRT did that on the Gen V.

Interior :
Race seats or Gen IV ACR seats. I'm sure this will happen and btw, the Gen IV ACR seats are the same seats since 2003.
Minimal insulation and sound proofing. The SRT model has this already. Only the GTS has the extra insulation.
Gauges - Mechanical Don't care either way. I just wish the Gen V had a unique gauge cluster and not shared with the Dart.
TC - my right foot. Again, write your congressman....
Launch Mode - My right and left foot. I would have liked a LC that worked. SRT seems to have messed up here...


Wheels Tires and Brakes :
CF Brakes front and bake - same as the ZR1 Optional only and I agree....
If they wouldn't fit the increase the damn wheel diameter to make them fit.
PSC's front and back. Agreed.
Light weight Rims. HRE etc. You do know that the ACR wheels are lighter than any aftermarket brand I've found? They only weighed 17 up front and 24 in the back. SRT claimed to have met those standards again with the trak-pak wheels and they look damn good too...
Weight should be in around 2990LBS. I agree the Viper should weigh less than it does.

Or you can offer two Versions :
ACR version - super light w/nasty compression at 522ci and set up above.
Viper version with 9.5.1 compression running a Roots type SC.

Pretty simple.
We hear " well, Ferrari this and Ferrari that and Ralph this / that."

If it was gonna be this bad I wish they would've stopped at the Gen IV and stayed gone till they really had their $hit together. ICON = TARNISHED!

But I'm anxious to see what they can pull out!


__________________

If we are intending to be constructive, I don't think this is. You have some reasonable ideas and I agree the Gen V needs a few changes, but I have a very good feeling about the upcoming ACR. See my critiques in your post. I've done extensive research on what it takes to actually produce a car and I have had personal experience with emissions regulations (though on an industrial level). None of this makes me an expert, but I can guarantee those that are in the car manufacturing industry would roll their eyes at this post.

Truth be told, if you want all this, an extreme $200k ACR-X could come your way, but this isn't for a street car. If you want the Gen V to be more of a bargain price wise, get rid of the unions and excessive government regulation and the Viper would be sub $100k will all option boxes checked.

 

[mnc2886]

I get it you guys complaining all want a speed 12
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR_Cerbera_Speed_12

Of course that car was never made for a lot of reasons. There is no money in a car like that, even if a few of us would love a car like that. Also, it was going to cost 250k pounds so it's 3X the cost of the viper.

You need to watch this video, lol...

http://youtu.be/lqZindUJIeU

 

[VENOM V]

how is the icon tarnished when the 08 viper (non acr) wasn't the fastest car in the world on a drag strip or on a road course? It took the acr to be the fastest on a road course and neither was ever a drag car winner. The Gen 5 is a faster car then a standard Gen 4 in every respect, lighter and with a much better interior, and (imo) better looking. You guys are not dealing with reality.

The Gen IV was no kind of world beating car. At the price point it was a very fast car, in a straight line with the ACR being a very fast track car. The new Gen V is faster in every way and the base price really isn't that much more. The high optioned cars have nothing to do with going faster except the aero package which makes it much faster then a standard Gen IV on track. I'm not following this line of thinking at all.

You are making the previous vipers into something that they never were. In stock form the Gen V is a much better track car then any previous stock viper, save the Gen IV ACR. The gen V ACR will be the world ****** (on a race track with corners not a drag strip) just like the last iteration. But, even it will probably not be able to hang with the F70/150 and P12's of the world.

The world is a much different place then even when the 08 ACR came out. Time to deal with with the facts. The base viper with the aero package is going to be the best bang for the buck and cost nothing near 140k. It's going to school all but the Gen IV ACR and even that will be close, while offering a lot nicer place to be while going that fast.

Excellent points, I have been wondering about this very subject. If the Gen IV non-ACR wasn't a world ******, why are some holding the Gen V non-ACR to this expectation?

It seems that much of the outrage on the Gen V performance is based on emotion, and doesn't stand up to logic.

 

[sonofadragracer]

It might not be as light as you want, but it still has a big cube V10 and is lighter then the last iteration by a lot if you get the SRT version and AERO package.

My ACR has a steel frame. I get you wanted a lot of changes, but those things cost a lot and can only be made up by selling a lot of vehicles, see the vette for a perfect example. The standard cars sells a ton to subsidize the splurges on the Z06/ZR1. The viper doesn't have that luxury. Porsche does the same thing, while selling their GT3/GT2s for a small fortune. You want a viper like that it will cost a fortune. The low volume means big money.

I actually don't have a problem with a model like that, but most here want some kind of bargain basement 700+HP car with carbon brakes, etc. That's not going to happen unless you have a high volume model to subsidize it.

Also, pretty sure you can't make a new car in the US without TC.

Agreed. I'd rather see a low volume BADA$$ Viper, there's exclusivity in the name. That's the problem I see w/the ZO6 & ZR1, great cars but GM ****** out the brand w/tons of volume. Kills the exclusivity.
I was aware of the Gov. mandate for TC. But it's been played out to much hence, launch mode, wet mode etc. etc.

If we are intending to be constructive, I don't think this is. You have some reasonable ideas and I agree the Gen V needs a few changes, but I have a very good feeling about the upcoming ACR. See my critiques in your post. I've done extensive research on what it takes to actually produce a car and I have had personal experience with emissions regulations (though on an industrial level). None of this makes me an expert, but I can guarantee those that are in the car manufacturing industry would roll their eyes at this post.

Truth be told, if you want all this, an extreme $200k ACR-X could come your way, but this isn't for a street car. If you want the Gen V to be more of a bargain price wise, get rid of the unions and excessive government regulation and the Viper would be sub $100k will all option boxes checked.

My post was intended to be constructive. It's just my personal opinion. Gov. involvement weighs a lot as well. I think Gov. involvement is a bigger problem than just the car industry.
You agreed w/some of the points I listed. My view points may be running on the ragged edge of car manufacturing, but it's from a racer's point of view.
I've had some pretty savvy Racers take a look at the specs, and gave them the ZR1 vs. Viper match up...(They did not know the MT test) they picked the "Blower Car" in their words to win.
They also as I first thought, felt that the car was simply to heavy. I'll say it again, the car looks great, but I think the focus should have been mostly performance vs. cosmetics etc.
Just my .02

 

[Jack B]

You have some very valid points, but, some just do not pass the sniff test. Why do you keep saying the car is too heavy, it is the same weight as the ZR1. What 640 hp car is lighter? As far as "should be performance instead of cosmetics". if that were the case you would not have a new viper at all and this forum would not exist, you must have both.

It sounds as though you understand drag racing, when did you ever see a car turn its best time the first time out. A Gen V full production model has not hit the streets yet and you are trashing it, that defies logic. I think you have a Gen IV, I believe that my NA Gen 2 has turned better times than your Gen IV is capable of in the 1/4 mile, yet I would never trash talk on your car or any Gen IV, that is my form of logic. Constructive is good soap boxes are not.

Agreed. I'd rather see a low volume BADA$$ Viper, there's exclusivity in the name. That's the problem I see w/the ZO6 & ZR1, great cars but GM ****** out the brand w/tons of volume. Kills the exclusivity.
I was aware of the Gov. mandate for TC. But it's been played out to much hence, launch mode, wet mode etc. etc.



My post was intended to be constructive. It's just my personal opinion. Gov. involvement weighs a lot as well. I think Gov. involvement is a bigger problem than just the car industry.
You agreed w/some of the points I listed. My view points may be running on the ragged edge of car manufacturing, but it's from a racer's point of view.
I've had some pretty savvy Racers take a look at the specs, and gave them the ZR1 vs. Viper match up...(They did not know the MT test) they picked the "Blower Car" in their words to win.
They also as I first thought, felt that the car was simply to heavy. I'll say it again, the car looks great, but I think the focus should have been mostly performance vs. cosmetics etc.
Just my .02

 

[sonofadragracer]

You have some very valid points, but, some just do not pass the sniff test. Why do you keep saying the car is too heavy, it is the same weight as the ZR1. What 640 hp car is lighter? As far as "should be performance instead of cosmetics". if that were the case you would not have a new viper at all and this forum would not exist, you must have both.

It sounds as though you understand drag racing, when did you ever see a car turn its best time the first time out. A Gen V full production model has not hit the streets yet and you are trashing it, that defies logic. I think you have a Gen IV, I believe that my NA Gen 2 has turned better times than your Gen IV is capable of in the 1/4 mile, yet I would never trash talk on your car or any Gen IV, that is my form of logic. Constructive is good soap boxes are not.

The "sniff" Test I understand ref. Gov. restrictions and there's no way of getting around it, unfortunately. I keep saying the car is to heavy, because it is. Doesn't matter if it's the same weight roughly as the ZR1.
The concept of racing in my experience is to have 10LBS of $hit in a 1LB bag so to speak. Remember : Gears and Tires, Power to weight, Cubic inches etc. Most of my experience is not in stock bodied cars, it's in
Dragsters etc. The car being lighter is not jus my point of view...I've talked to guys in the INDY 500 and NHRA HOF...THEY SAY THE SAME THING!!!!!

I understand from a sales point of view that you have to have some cosmetics in there for appeal etc. But that can be kept to a minimal. My point of the my Gen IV ACR was the simpleness of the design, interior
wise too.
As far as "When did I ever see a car first time out turn it's best time".....rarely, however it's called TNT! Test and Tune...which they had plenty of time to come out and lay down a #. You go out to WIN. Not
DNQ or get put on the Trailer...especially the first MT Mag test. etc. I'm simply saying the Car could be a lot better and they should've had it ready by the time they stepped out into the Public Stage.
I'm not "Trashing" anything....as you put it. Obviously there's a problem if on Multiple Forums etc. and numerous threads started and back and fourth in ref. to this subj. I wouldn't have put an order in on one
w/the Track Package if I thought if were Trash. So far the car has not performed to expectations and w/the current set up, there's gonna have to be some changes which I hope are made.

I can tell you the TQ comes in way to late. The ZR1 is making 600TQ at 3800RPM, hence the blower, the Viper has to twist to 5000 RPM to make that. Remember Jack B, it's intended to be constructive
because I love the Viper, I wouldn't have got rid of 3 Vette's, Saleen etc. and switched to Dodge. No "soapbox" here...you think growing up in Drag Racing I didn't hear constantly "HEMI, MOPAR OR NOCAR" etc.
It was almost like a sin to mention Chevrolet especially when were talking Alcohol or Nitro.

Lastly, again, just listed areas where I think the Car can be improved on.

 

[Torquemonster]

I think SRT has got it pretty close. The next evolutions I'd like to see would be:

1 - a professional ECU module so tuners could get full engine/trans ECU access (could even be on an approved basis to preclude cowboys getting in there, could even require passing some kind of training). This would allow for the guys who want mega power to run power adders (and void warranty other than for defective parts).

2 - direct injection - SRT can't afford to spend 6 million hours developing one like GM so buy a licence and pay a small royalty. Lot's of industry precedent here so time the US car makers shared too.

3 - adopt the magnetic suspension dampening - best available ride/handling dampening there is right now. At least as an option - should be able to negotiate a deal that only pays a royalty per car fitted - then the cost can be passed on to the user.

4 - add a lift system to clear ramps and speed bumps - at least 2.5" front and rear. A godsend to anyone that has listened to the sound of scraping metal under their car trying to get from A to B or park. Even if only an add on option - it'd be a must have for a regular driver.


re carbon brakes - meh - great for track days but overall they don't add enough to justify the replacement cost for most owners. I see them as an option only and would not personally want them on a car driven every week. Maybe on a car driven irregularly and tracked often. I have heard that they do not last near as long overall if used hard, and you could buy a used SRT8 for the price of a replacement complete set.

 

[SSGViper]

how is the icon tarnished when the 08 viper (non acr) wasn't the fastest car in the world on a drag strip or on a road course? It took the acr to be the fastest on a road course and neither was ever a drag car winner. The Gen 5 is a faster car then a standard Gen 4 in every respect, lighter and with a much better interior, and (imo) better looking. You guys are not dealing with reality.

The Gen IV was no kind of world beating car. At the price point it was a very fast car, in a straight line with the ACR being a very fast track car. The new Gen V is faster in every way and the base price really isn't that much more. The high optioned cars have nothing to do with going faster except the aero package which makes it much faster then a standard Gen IV on track. I'm not following this line of thinking at all.

You are making the previous vipers into something that they never were. In stock form the Gen V is a much better track car then any previous stock viper, save the Gen IV ACR. The gen V ACR will be the world ****** (on a race track with corners not a drag strip) just like the last iteration. But, even it will probably not be able to hang with the F70/150 and P12's of the world.

The world is a much different place then even when the 08 ACR came out. Time to deal with with the facts. The base viper with the aero package is going to be the best bang for the buck and cost nothing near 140k. It's going to school all but the Gen IV ACR and even that will be close, while offering a lot nicer place to be while going that fast.

Then shouldn't this NEW Gen V Viper be competitive with the OLD ZR1 and not be 2 seconds behind on a road course in 2 consecutive tests? One would think the new Viper would be as fast or faster around a course than the old ZR1. After all, both cars are without aero aids like the Gen IV ACR had.

 

[bushido]

Then shouldn't this NEW Gen V Viper be competitive with the OLD ZR1 and not be 2 seconds behind on a road course in 2 consecutive tests? One would think the new Viper would be as fast or faster around a course than the old ZR1. After all, both cars are without aero aids like the Gen IV ACR had.

ZR1? The C6Z06 is faster 0-150mph,and posts the 2nd fastest lap time at Laguna. I dont know why SRT cant get the gearing down on these vipers. GM has aced it..

 

[bushido]

I think SRT has got it pretty close. The next evolutions I'd like to see would be:

1 - a professional ECU module so tuners could get full engine/trans ECU access (could even be on an approved basis to preclude cowboys getting in there, could even require passing some kind of training). This would allow for the guys who want mega power to run power adders (and void warranty other than for defective parts).

2 - direct injection - SRT can't afford to spend 6 million hours developing one like GM so buy a licence and pay a small royalty. Lot's of industry precedent here so time the US car makers shared too.

3 - adopt the magnetic suspension dampening - best available ride/handling dampening there is right now. At least as an option - should be able to negotiate a deal that only pays a royalty per car fitted - then the cost can be passed on to the user.

4 - add a lift system to clear ramps and speed bumps - at least 2.5" front and rear. A godsend to anyone that has listened to the sound of scraping metal under their car trying to get from A to B or park. Even if only an add on option - it'd be a must have for a regular driver.


re carbon brakes - meh - great for track days but overall they don't add enough to justify the replacement cost for most owners. I see them as an option only and would not personally want them on a car driven every week. Maybe on a car driven irregularly and tracked often. I have heard that they do not last near as long overall if used hard, and you could buy a used SRT8 for the price of a replacement complete set.

Torq it doesnt have to be CC brakes. Instead go with 15inch two piece rotor with brembo 6 piston calipers..

 

[Ev1E9]

Then shouldn't this NEW Gen V Viper be competitive with the OLD ZR1 and not be 2 seconds behind on a road course in 2 consecutive tests? One would think the new Viper would be as fast or faster around a course than the old ZR1. After all, both cars are without aero aids like the Gen IV ACR had.

I've been reading the two threads regarding both the Motortrend and Car and Driver comparos. I believe we all need to give credit where credit is due. GM has done a heck of a job honing both the ZR1 and Z06. They've had years to massage both platforms and they've been optimized. I wanted the GEN V Viper to outperform the ZR1 too, but you cannot discount the development time GM has had with the premium C6 platforms.

Also, many have made comments about how the C7 is going to mop the floor with the GEN V Viper? The base C7 is going to be a great car, but it isn't going to be a Viper competitor. We may not see a C7 equivalent of either the Z06 or ZR1 for years, if ever. There's no guarantee, but we'll probably see a premium C7 variant. Hopefully, by the time GM does release the premium variants of the C7, SRT will have refined the performance of the GEN V even further, or the GEN V ACR, if there is one, is in production. Also, I'm sure SRT, MOPAR and the aftermarket are going to have some go-fast goodies for the snake.

Furthermore, have any of you detractors looked at the list of cars the pre-production GEN V mules have outpaced? There's an impressive list of automotive engineering the GEN V outperformed. I don't understand why SRT would release pre-production mules for magazine tests. Perhaps they got tired of reading all the complaints from Viper Nation about the lack of test results. Maybe the GEN V just wasn't ready for prime-time, and they sent dog-eared mules to do battle with the ZR1...a mature, but well-fettled platform.

Finally, I've seen many comments about carbon ceramic brakes. I read many of the early accounts and there were issues with the brakes at that time. However, it appears the problems persisted during the comparisons. I have a theory. Perhaps it wasn't a matter that the Viper's brakes faded. I believe the ZR1's CCBs didn't fall off as rapidly due to their ability to dissipate heat.

However, I'm not certain whether there was a true weight advantage. Rotating mass is a huge variable in terms of handling. Recently, Mclaren admitted their steel rotors are actually lighter than their optional CCBs. Plus, many said the "feel" of the steel offering is better. I have attached a link of an EVO road trip in Mclaren's MP4-12C. The reviewer states the steelies had better feel. I wanted to add this video because the first 28 seconds are automotive bliss. Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KizbiSkTAo

 

[Jack B]

Good explanation, all I was trying to say (and others) was that 50% of your requests were either already included on the new car or could never be met due to regulatory issues. Just picture a naive new buyer looking at your list - he might change his mind, definitely he is going to revisit his decision.

I still want to know, (for my own info) is there an equal hp car in the $100K range that is lighter than the viper SRT version. When I read all the high end car reviews most seem to be a little heavy?

Wishing you and your family a great new year

The "sniff" Test I understand ref. Gov. restrictions and there's no way of getting around it, unfortunately. I keep saying the car is to heavy, because it is. Doesn't matter if it's the same weight roughly as the ZR1.
The concept of racing in my experience is to have 10LBS of $hit in a 1LB bag so to speak. Remember : Gears and Tires, Power to weight, Cubic inches etc. Most of my experience is not in stock bodied cars, it's in
Dragsters etc. The car being lighter is not jus my point of view...I've talked to guys in the INDY 500 and NHRA HOF...THEY SAY THE SAME THING!!!!!

I understand from a sales point of view that you have to have some cosmetics in there for appeal etc. But that can be kept to a minimal. My point of the my Gen IV ACR was the simpleness of the design, interior
wise too.
As far as "When did I ever see a car first time out turn it's best time".....rarely, however it's called TNT! Test and Tune...which they had plenty of time to come out and lay down a #. You go out to WIN. Not
DNQ or get put on the Trailer...especially the first MT Mag test. etc. I'm simply saying the Car could be a lot better and they should've had it ready by the time they stepped out into the Public Stage.
I'm not "Trashing" anything....as you put it. Obviously there's a problem if on Multiple Forums etc. and numerous threads started and back and fourth in ref. to this subj. I wouldn't have put an order in on one
w/the Track Package if I thought if were Trash. So far the car has not performed to expectations and w/the current set up, there's gonna have to be some changes which I hope are made.

I can tell you the TQ comes in way to late. The ZR1 is making 600TQ at 3800RPM, hence the blower, the Viper has to twist to 5000 RPM to make that. Remember Jack B, it's intended to be constructive
because I love the Viper, I wouldn't have got rid of 3 Vette's, Saleen etc. and switched to Dodge. No "soapbox" here...you think growing up in Drag Racing I didn't hear constantly "HEMI, MOPAR OR NOCAR" etc.
It was almost like a sin to mention Chevrolet especially when were talking Alcohol or Nitro.

Lastly, again, just listed areas where I think the Car can be improved on.

 

[sonofadragracer]

Good explanation, all I was trying to say (and others) was that 50% of your requests were either already included on the new car or could never be met due to regulatory issues. Just picture a naive new buyer looking at your list - he might change his mind, definitely he is going to revisit his decision.

I still want to know, (for my own info) is there an equal hp car in the $100K range that is lighter than the viper SRT version. When I read all the high end car reviews most seem to be a little heavy?

Wishing you and your family a great new year

To answer your question ref. the price range and HP and weight combo. I would say no, you're 100% correct. I'm sure the Gov. really puts the clamps down on these cars so to speak.
No matter Ford, Chevy, Dodge etc. If the gloves were off, I bet any three could really put out some amazing performers and they already have given the restrictions.

Thank you Jack B.
Wishing you and your Family a great new year as well.

 

[v10enomous]

The Gen V romps so many premium higher priced cars and offers rarity, exclusivity and beauty in a unique massive V10 NA configuration and now the car is a much better driver for the street that people will ultimately get more enjoyment out of these new Vipers than the previous generations and the car is still an awesome value. It would be pretty short sighted to entirely dismiss the Gen V just because it doesn't have bragging rights in every performance category right now on day 1 because the best is yet to come if that is all that matters to you plus even right now the Gen V has the ZR1 beat in some categories.

 

[bushido]

The Gen V romps so many premium higher priced cars and offers rarity, exclusivity and beauty in a unique massive V10 NA configuration and now the car is a much better driver for the street that people will ultimately get more enjoyment out of these new Vipers than the previous generations and the car is still an awesome value. It would be pretty short sighted to entirely dismiss the Gen V just because it doesn't have bragging rights in every performance category right now on day 1 because the best is yet to come if that is all that matters to you plus even right now the Gen V has the ZR1 beat in some categories.

One of the problems was that the car was mis- advertised. Putting the power to weight a couple of steps ahead of the ZR1..

You must be registered for see images attach

When I first saw this. I really thought that SRT really tested this car "in & Out"..

If they came out with a different approach. Like saying you're getting a Viper that's mainly more refined. Then I think more folks would except the car now, as is..

 

[ACRucrazy]

How was it mis-advertised?

 

[bushido]

How was it mis-advertised?

It should be faster than the ZR1..

 

[ACRucrazy]

It should be faster than the ZR1..

Because of a dry weight / peak brake horsepower chart?

 

[tbi]

Ummmmmmm....

It is faster to 60 and 100 mph. they also appear dead even to 130 mph. both trapping in the 126-129 mph range in head to head quarter mile testing.

 

[v10enomous]

Ummmmmmm....

It is faster to 60 and 100 mph. they also appear dead even to 130 mph. both trapping in the 126-129 mph range in head to head quarter mile testing.

The Viper has a lower final drive ratio now.