Car&Driver:ZR1 beats the Viper...again

[HOLLYWOOD1]

Really? We are going to do this again in another thread? One thread closes due to 25 pages of crap and we are starting again here? Really? Hasn't everything been said?

Disappointed in the constant bashing most of you are posting. I am just thankful there even is a new Viper.

Im not thankful for finishing second as its the first to lose. I want a winner not a bridesmaid and until this car is dialed in we will have to just settle for second and being a bridesmaid. At least we have a Viper that still a pretty good looking car....it just needs my seats from my Gen 3 and a set of foglights.

 

[Bobpantax]

Look at the difference in RPM point for peak torque and the difference in gear ratios. I think that accounts for the 0 to 150 difference. As Ray said on the last page, some will not buy the new Viper until an open Code controller is available so that the car can be modded. The ZR1 people can up the power for peanuts with pulley change, headers, exhaust and altered calibration. With that said, there is a new type of buyer coming to the table who may not care about the 2 second difference. But for those of us who were "raised" on the Dirty Harry Viper, to say the least the fact that there are now two tests that produced the same road course result by different magazines and different drivers is very disappointing.

My humble opinion.

The zr1 is set up better with better brakes and tires. it is what it is. average driver or pro driver theres a two second gap around LS.

However I still wont be surprised if a pro from the srt team beats the zr1s new record.




Number two....dang 0-60 in 3.2 is movin and it beat the zr1 in the quarter mile by a tenth. cant complain


but whst the heck is up with the 0-150 in 17.8

Gen3 is 19.5
Z06 is 17.5
Zr1 is 16.8
Gen4 is 16.4

Genv is 17.8????!???????!!!!!!!!

 

[Jack B]

The ZR1 quarter mile time and mph is dead on for a non prepped track on factory tires. I think the Viper mph is a tad low considering the 600 hp versions can do 128 on a non-prepped track.

You are correct, the mph is off. Virtually anyone that can drive a car in the quarter is going to show the same mph. Mph is directly related to hp. The following formula is very close, it is exact on my car:

*HP = (mph/234)3 X weight

* the "3" is the power of 3, I could not figure out how to do a superscript

Using a weight for the car/driver of (3550 lbs), the formula shows the viper has 554 rwhp and the vette has 581 rwhp. The true hp numbers may be off a bit, however, this shows the vette has close to 30 hp more than the viper??

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

My humble opinion.

The zr1 is set up better with better brakes and tires. it is what it is. average driver or pro driver theres a two second gap around LS.

However I still wont be surprised if a pro from the srt team beats the zr1s new record.

It could happen and I am quite surprised of the 0-60 time.....this has to be one of the quickest sprints by a rear wheel drive to 60. One problem it still will not ever even come close to the GTR which clicked off a wild 2.7 and this is with the 545HP motor. Wait til the 585 2014 shows up......it will be as fast as the Bugatti...now thats really something.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

You guys forget that the gen 5 seats are nothing like the gen 3/4 seats! They look way thinner and lighter aka race seats.

So what? They are still not as good as my Gen 3s. I'll take mine any day.

 

[ROCKET62]

Love you like a brother, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.

1) This review confirms what we had hoped was an anomaly in the first review.
2) The tires still appear to be a weak link. Track pack should have included track tires PSC's.
3) What's up with the brake fade? Never heard that before with the Gen 3/4/ACR. Did SRT change the brake pads?
4) Concern over comfort of seats - again not heard with the SRT, except for us portly owners who learned how to bend out the bolsters. I for one did not feel comfortable with the seating position when I sat in the Gen 5 at VOI as it felt like you were sitting ON the Viper, not IN the Viper as I felt in my Gen 1, Gen 3, or feel in my Gen 4.
5) Performance numbers don't seem that much better than the Gen 4 and based on the increase in price and the claimed HP #'s, lightweight flywheel, changed gearing - we all were expecting better. Were the Bilstein shocks the best option?

I think it is still going to attract a new breed to Viper ownership and it still sounds like it is going to be a drivers car. Out of my price league anyway which may be the biggest concern for a number of long time viper owners. I am grateful that there still is a Viper - and after all of the hype - was not expecting it to be beat by the ZRwhatever.

I also think it's ridiculous to close a post.

Really? We are going to do this again in another thread? One thread closes due to 25 pages of crap and we are starting again here? Really? Hasn't everything been said?

Disappointed in the constant bashing most of you are posting. I am just thankful there even is a new Viper.

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

It could happen and I am quite surprised of the 0-60 time.....this has to be one of the quickest sprints by a rear wheel drive to 60. One problem it still will not ever even come close to the GTR which clicked off a wild 2.7 and this is with the 545HP motor. Wait til the 585 2014 shows up......it will be as fast as the Bugatti...now thats really something.

Where are you getting that the '14 GTR will have 585 HP? There are no HP increases for the '14 GTR, just a premium interior option and minor tweaks. The GTR is a beast in street light races, but I don't see it running with the ZR1 or Viper mounted with R compounds around tracks.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

This is very very very bad news for SRT.... How can they justify those price points and perfomance to the "new breed of Viper owner."

Why oh why did they give these rags the cars now? How are they gonna sell these?

This really *****!!

Two strikes now in public.

I am a very depressed owner....

It should have been a 700HP monster!

People always bought it because it was a bad ass killer... now "Hey thats a nice interior"...... groan!!

Don't be too disappointed as deep down a lot of us probably saw this coming.....the positive out of all this is that these cars will not sell at 140-160K and will be sitting around on dealers lots gathering dust until they decide to drop the price so that they can move some product.....the market will set the price and it surely wont be at these ridiculous prices...hello GTR.....

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

You are correct, the mph is off. Virtually anyone that can drive a car in the quarter is going to show the same mph. Mph is directly related to hp. The following formula is very close, it is exact on my car:

*HP = (mph/234)3 X weight

* the "3" is the power of 3, I could not figure out how to do a superscript

Using a weight of car and driver of (3550 lbs), the formula shows the viper has 554 rwhp and the vette has 581 rwhp. The true hp numbers may be off a bit, however, this shows the vette has close to 30 hp more than the viper??

Good work but this translates into a 8.9% drive train loss which should be more around 13%...unless I am missing something...

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

The article states "Viper remains the redneck Lambo".. Get R done !!! This is the second review too. Guess three strikes your out. SRT, What up?? Vette guys are loving this stuff.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

Where are you getting that the '14 GTR will have 585 HP? There are no HP increases for the '14 GTR, just a premium interior option and minor tweaks. The GTR is a beast in street light races, but I don't see it running with the ZR1 or Viper mounted with R compounds around tracks.

Dealer in Calgary said that it would be bumped as Nissan has bumped it pretty much every year to keep selling cars...

 

[mnc2886]

Now the leaks on Car and Driver for the new Vette has the car weighing only 3,000 lbs exactly. That was the apparent weight target the engineers had and supposedly they hit it. It has carbon fiber built into the frame. All I can say is ouch. I'm honestly a little disappointed and I am a huge Viper fan. I feel like the car is way behind the 8 ball right now. Unless SRT makes a drastic change, the next Z06 will eat our lunch, let alone the ZR1.

 

[Newport Viper]

Don't be too disappointed as deep down a lot of us probably saw this coming.....the positive out of all this is that these cars will not sell at 140-160K and will be sitting around on dealers lots gathering dust until they decide to drop the price so that they can move some product.....the market will set the price and it surely wont be at these ridiculous prices...hello GTR.....

I don't mean to bag on the car..... too much... ( I still hate the guppy mouth front end) I just didn't see it coming... I am still interested in a new Vert next year? (Worlds fastest/ quickest Vert? )

I weep for the Coupe .....

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

Dealer in Calgary said that it would be bumped as Nissan has bumped it pretty much every year to keep selling cars...

The specs on the 2014 are already out, there is no HP increase.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

The specs on the 2014 are already out, there is no HP increase.

Thx VoooDoo...good find as I was just repeating what I was told.......
By the way the Vooodoo and F/E's are the nicest cars ever made..........whenever you want to sell call me as i'm in.....

 

[Dom426h]

I'm not a corvette troll. I like both cars. I'm just passing along some new info to my fellow enthusiasts.

Based on the Title of your thread im still thinking that you are a troll. The Viper Won in the 0-60, 0-100, & 1/4. This is all stuff that is routinely done on the street. 0-150 not so much(although feasible for some) lol


Those saying that power won the 0-150 i think might be wrong. Could it possibly be the gearing and/or aerodynamics? Given the same power/gearing/weight the car that is slippery through the air is going to realy shine from 100-150mph...

 

[bushido]

Now the leaks on Car and Driver for the new Vette has the car weighing only 3,000 lbs exactly. That was the apparent weight target the engineers had and supposedly they hit it. It has carbon fiber built into the frame. All I can say is ouch. I'm honestly a little disappointed and I am a huge Viper fan. I feel like the car is way behind the 8 ball right now. Unless SRT makes a drastic change, the next Z06 will eat our lunch, let alone the ZR1.

I really like the new steps they're taking..
http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...rings-news?src=spr_FBPAGE&spr_id=1458_5984393

 

[Dom426h]

The title of your thread was missleading to stir the ***. Also, how you are responding to people further leads me to believe you are a troll.

 

[ipetrov]

I wouldn't take this review too seriously. Cars were admittedly tested by the guy who produced the following "gem" of auto journalism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctzqEo04-FI

 

[bluestreak]

That's BS! I'm a multi viper owner and die hard fan and want this thread to stay up! I want SRT to take notice and get the car right! They need to listen to us owners! So we lost, do you think by closing the thread that makes it all better?! So the only threads that should remain, should be those praising the car? This crying about losing and making excuses is making the current car and owners the laughing stock of the industry

Agree!!

My humble opinion.

The zr1 is set up better with better brakes and tires. it is what it is. average driver or pro driver theres a two second gap around LS.

However I still wont be surprised if a pro from the srt team beats the zr1s new record.




Number two....dang 0-60 in 3.2 is movin and it beat the zr1 in the quarter mile by a tenth. cant complain


but whst the heck is up with the 0-150 in 17.8

Gen3 is 19.5
Z06 is 17.5
Zr1 is 16.8
Gen4 is 16.4

Genv is 17.8????!???????!!!!!!!!

Yeah, something doesn't sound right with that, in the MT article Randy said the car seemed like it pulled harder than the ZR1, to get obliterated like that after being neck and neck to 100 mph usually means either aero or gearing is holding the Viper back. Something is seriously wrong with that number.

Just for arguments sake, the information and results are the same although with a different magazine. The last thread on this topic had 748 responses, both positive and negative, and with 35,000 views. Do you not think SRT got the message? What new information is going to be unveiled ?

How about just not clicking on them instead of constantly reading and complaining if the threads bother you so much.

The specs on the 2014 are already out, there is no HP increase.

False, the base C7 will have a minimum of 450 hp up from 430. You can expect increases on the Z06 as well simply with the addition of direct injection.

Based on the Title of your thread im still thinking that you are a troll. The Viper Won in the 0-60, 0-100, & 1/4. This is all stuff that is routinely done on the street. 0-150 not so much(although feasible for some) lol


Those saying that power won the 0-150 i think might be wrong. Could it possibly be the gearing and/or aerodynamics? Given the same power/gearing/weight the car that is slippery through the air is going to realy shine from 100-150mph...

Agree, the first post had troll written all over it, and considering he posted the same thing on Corvette forum with some ridicule for the Viper pretty much confirms it.

The title of your thread was missleading to stir the ***. Also, how you are responding to people further leads me to believe you are a troll.

+1, original post had troll written all over it. I don't think his overall posts are as biased as JVP and RC000E, but the first post was not genuinely unbiased.

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

False, the base C7 will have a minimum of 450 hp up from 430. You can expect increases on the Z06 as well simply with the addition of direct injection.

That's great, but we weren't talking about the Vette, that was about the 2014 GTR.

 

[bluestreak]

That's great, but we weren't talking about the Vette, that was about the 2014 GTR.

Oh, my bad. Reading too fast.

 

[Coloviper]

Some of you guys are unbelievable. Multiple Viper owners or not, there are some whinny A-Holes on here. Bluestreak, Hollywood wannabee, JohnnyLightning, etc. just a bunch of disrespectful babies taken off the *** too early. Go whine somewhere else. Just sickening! You are perfect for the vette so go buy it already and move on.

 

[mnc2886]

After reading the scanned in article and watching Randy commentate his lap, I'm wondering if the new Viper is too stiff? I'm sure a car reaches a point of diminishing returns on stiffness and I honestly never heard someone say the Viper wasn't stiff enough. Don't you need some roll and squat to get power down? I only bring this up because of the track test comments. Even Randy said he felt bumps in the track while in the Viper that he didn't even know were there.

All I'm saying is the Gen IV is a highly capable beast and having something 50% stiffer than it seems like it may have hurt the Viper's performance. Then again, I could be completely wrong as I'm just thinking aloud here...

What I really know is seeing that the new base model Vette comes it at 3,000 lbs on the dot, the ACR better have the same goal because I doubt the Z06 plans on being heavier than the base model...

 

[TrackAire]

Look at the difference in RPM point for peak torque and the difference in gear ratios. I think that accounts for the 0 to 150 difference. As Ray said on the last page, some will not buy the new Viper until an open Code controller is available so that the car can be modded. The ZR1 people can up the power for peanuts with pulley change, headers, exhaust and altered calibration. With that said, there is a new type of buyer coming to the table who may not care about the 2 second difference. But for those of us who were "raised" on the Dirty Harry Viper, to say the least the fact that there are now two tests that produced the same road course result by different magazines and different drivers is very disappointing.

Bob,

I'd like you to consider the following angle. I've been looking at 2009 and newer Bentley Continentals and the Maserati GranTurismo as a getaway luxury GT. What I found suprising was the number of these vehicles that are chipped and some even have exhaust mods. From what I can see, the exhaust mods are more for audio enjoyment than a real boost in performance (most are cat back). Even though most new Viper buyers do not care about the 2 seconds difference, they are very computer comfortable and chipping their car is no different than adding a new app to their phone. When people are looking at his level of German, Italian, British or domestic iron, they've done their research and know what can be done to a car via basic upgrades like the computer and or exhaust upgrade. Spend 30 minutes on any car forum and you can get a run down of what is available and what works. So even if a basic tuner like an SCT was available for the Gen 5 and costs $2000.00, it would sell. Most people know that if they sell the car, they can probably get $1000.00 selling the tuner on Craigslist or Ebay.

I've been to cars and coffee type events where something like a 2005 Jaguar XK was chipped, cat back, etc. This was not a uber high performance machine, but it was fun listening to the owner describe the basic mods and upgrades he had done to the car. He'll probably never take it to the track, but tinkering with his car (just like upgrading his computer or his phone) is what he enjoys.

Fiat, Ferrari and Maserati can be tuned from what I see. I'm not sure Chrysler is seeing the entire picture of what customers at this level want (actually people at this level don't like to be told what they can or can't do). Hopefully somebody in Italy is reading these posts.

Cheers,
George

 

[tbi]

Heres the car and driver article were they got 0-150 .......

Gen4viper 16.4
Zr1 17.1

What the hell happenned with the genv? 17.8?

Its the same basic engine in a lighter viper

 

[SSGViper]

This Gen V viper appears to be a pathetic failure from all aspects including interior, polarizing looks, and performance. As a current Viper owner, I'm sick of the lies and deception from the SRT folks. This Gen V should not be beat by the older outgoing ZR1 plain and simple. Who is going to shell out 110-140k for this thing after reading these reviews, seriously? The SRT folks really screwed this thing up and need to be held accountable and the man who is ultimately responsible for this is Ralph himself. Perhaps his hands were tied and the budget did not allow it to be the car it should have been. Perhaps there is politics between Ferrari and SRT as to performance limitations for the Viper. One thing is for sure, this is not going to sell more Vipers and, unfortunately, the end result may be the ultimate demise of the Viper. It's a sad reality that is unfolding. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

This Gen V viper appears to be a pathetic failure from all aspects including interior, polarizing looks, and performance. As a current Viper owner, I'm sick of the lies and deception from the SRT folks. This Gen V should not be beat by the older outgoing ZR1 plain and simple. Who is going to shell out 110-140k for this thing after reading these reviews, seriously? The SRT folks really screwed this thing up and need to be held accountable and the man who is ultimately responsible for this is Ralph himself. Perhaps his hands were tied and the budget did not allow it to be the car it should have been. Perhaps there is politics between Ferrari and SRT as to performance limitations for the Viper. One thing is for sure, this is not going to sell more Vipers and, unfortunately, the end result may be the ultimate demise of the Viper. It's a sad reality that is unfolding. I hope I am wrong.

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[bluestreak]

After reading the scanned in article and watching Randy commentate his lap, I'm wondering if the new Viper is too stiff? I'm sure a car reaches a point of diminishing returns on stiffness and I honestly never heard someone say the Viper wasn't stiff enough. Don't you need some roll and squat to get power down? I only bring this up because of the track test comments. Even Randy said he felt bumps in the track while in the Viper that he didn't even know were there.

All I'm saying is the Gen IV is a highly capable beast and having something 50% stiffer than it seems like it may have hurt the Viper's performance. Then again, I could be completely wrong as I'm just thinking aloud here...

What I really know is seeing that the new base model Vette comes it at 3,000 lbs on the dot, the ACR better have the same goal because I doubt the Z06 plans on being heavier than the base model...

Sounds like a distinct possibility. A little bit of squat, pitch and roll will help put power down, will also make the car more manageable and more confidence inspiring. I would think on a 50/50 weight distribution car, they could get away with some softer springs without overloading the tires on any corner because of it.

 

[doctorbob]

Just to set things in perspective for this thread.
Stingray23 and Hollywood have made 41/92 posts for a total of 45% of total posts on this thread.
Throw in the next three individuals with the highest posts....60%
So five people have posted 60% all all the posts on this thread.
Go figure.