Car&Driver:ZR1 beats the Viper...again

[VENOM V]

Ralph posted on twitter that the production seats have arrived and are much more comfortable. So it seems like some parts if the car are still being perfected.

That's good news, the reviews had me worried.

 

[bcmarly]

Good news! They are already addressing some of the reported short comings. Also from SRT: "we found a leak path. Production cars get a redesigned mag dash seal, seems to fix the heat issue. Thx for the feedback." The seats were a real concern for me as I spent 20 minutes in a mule and came away with a sore back.

From Ralph

https://mobile.twitter.com/RalphGilles/status/285063585388953600/photos

Makes you wonder why you deliver cars like this to the press..

 

[ACRucrazy]

From Ralph

https://mobile.twitter.com/RalphGilles/status/285063585388953600/photos

Makes you wonder why you deliver cars like this to the press..

Hah, yea I just spent the last hr or so looking at some of his comments in the past few days. Good stuff to see progress!

 

[Snakester]

I am surprised with many of these comments (from the Viper owners). It was only a short time ago when the Viper was going to be discontinued and/or sold off. And after Fiat jumped in it was still uncertain if they would keep the Viper or not. So I'm VERY happy to see the Viper still alive and kicking. Plus I'm happy that the new Viper's styling has gone back to being inspired by the original GTS, and happy that they kept the big V10 engine, and front-mid engine layout, and kept the visceral feeling of the Viper. The new Viper is lighter and more powerful, and from all reports SRT has refined the suspension and overall handling balance of the car to a new, superior level. Most all of the changes made to the new Viper came from current Viper owners, as well as revisions made to appeal to drivers who would not have even considered owning a Viper before (like the writers of that article).

The ZR-1 is an impressive performance car, but unfortunately it looks so close to the base Corvette that it doesn't come across as being special to anyone but a Corvette fan.
The Viper on the other hand is truly unique visually, and with the new model pulling an amazing 3.2 sec 0-60 it truly offers super car acceleration now.

I do think that SRT should offer a plush package with a more compliant suspension setting option and cushier seats to appeal to buyers who would normally buy a Porsche, Audi or Mercedes high performance car.
And I'm confident that SRT will also take these early tests as a challenge to create a new ACR Viper that will keep all of the new Viper's core improvements and yet be faster than the last ACR Viper around a racetrack.

 

[ViperSmith]

Ralph seems to be a man with a a plan, I think we will all be pleasantly surprised next year

 

[SilveRT8]

I do think that SRT should offer a plush package with a more compliant suspension setting option and cushier seats to appeal to buyers who would normally buy a Porsche, Audi or Mercedes high performance car.

From the earlier reports, I tought the GTS would be the plush package, so I'm glad to hear the production seats will be more confortable than the ones tested, as the comments about how hard they were had me worried a bit.
Also, before final production specs are set, it would be nice to have both suspension settings relaxed a bit as most testers wont even drive it in Track mode even when on the track, because it's so hard.
The GTS should be the fast but pleasant one for mostly street driving, so what if the ZR1 on MPSC2 is a bit faster on the track, then make the ACR the real track monster that will kick ass and break records again.

 

[TrackAire]

Not correct. SCRAMP (Sports Car Racing Association of the Monterey Peninsula) which actually runs Laguna Seca has more 90+ dbs days scheduled for 2013 than ever before. There are actually 105 dbs track days available for HPDE groups for 2013, which is a first in a number of years as previous 105 dbs days were reserved for SCCA Racing. Non dbs days are usually reserved for Grand Am/Rolex, ALMS, Historics and Rennsport. People mention brake fade, but although Laguna Seca is rough on brakes (especially turn 2) a few hot laps should not be an issue for the brakes. Like I mentioned before, I do not understand why they have 10 year old calipers (same as the 2003 SRT) on a newly designed car. A fantastic car nonetheless.

I've been told that non dB days are approximately $28,000.00 per day just for the sound permit .....not including other fees such as track rental, corner workers, etc. Does that sound correct?

George

 

[InjectTheVenom]

I've been told that non dB days are approximately $28,000.00 per day just for the sound permit .....not including other fees such as track rental, corner workers, etc. Does that sound correct?

George

I will tell you what sounds correct:

People living in the immediate area, the nagging ones who know FULL WELL that they would be moving to a neighbourhood with a lot of noise but can't stop nagging and whining about it forcing a bribe on performance enthusiasts who want to enjoy their hobby. Same BS here in The Netherlands with a small stock car track in the immediate area and the former F1 track of Zandvoort.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Too bad they can't surround the track with those high walled sound barriers like the have on highways that go through residential areas.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Too bad they can't surround the track with those high walled sound barriers like the have on highways that go through residential areas.

Well they could but $$$$$$ ?

 

[SnakeBitten]

Well they could but $$$$$$ ?

My thinking too that's why I said "too bad". Money talks. Its more profitable to charge people to run unrestricted than it is to spend on those barriers.

Also they would lose that money they charge to run unrestricted db's if they put up a barrier. it's not profitable for them it would seem.

 

[MTGTS]

My thinking too that's why I said "too bad". Money talks. Its more profitable to charge people to run unrestricted than it is to spend on those barriers.

Also they would lose that money they charge to run unrestricted db's if they put up a barrier. it's not profitable for them it would seem.

So you are saying the track is making $$ on the permitting?

 

[Vital Velocity]

to those who say that to anyone but a corvette fan the zr1 is not special in my opinion is completely wrong. Any CAR enthusiast should respect the zr1 and understand that it is in fact someone special. Does it look similar to other corvettes? Sure. Is the engineering and performance the car offers amazing? By the butt kicking we are taking we all have to say yes

 

[Early93Viper]

If SRT thinks Porsche 911 Turbo owners would consider a Gen.5 Viper ,they are dreaming.I had a C6ZR1 and a Gen 4 Viper.Sold them both to get a new Porsche 911 Turbo S.The Gen 4 Viper and ZR1 do not compare with the Porsche.The Porsche will run away from both,easy,safe to drive at limit and drives like Benz.I like others,was going to get a Gen 5,would have been my 4 th. Viper for me.But,for now,not going to happen,not until the new Viper is a clear winner like our old Vipers were.I hope SRT does whatever they need to do to make the Viper a winner again.

How will a 911 Turbo S run away from a ZR1 and a GEN 4? On a track both would kill a Turbo S.

 

[SnakeBitten]

So you are saying the track is making $$ on the permitting?

I'm "assuming" knowing full well Could be wrong. But if you look at it logically if you can charge someone 28k(read that in a thread) to run unrestricted because of noise regulation, then why would I remove the source that allows me to make that money? Just thinking out loud. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but it would make financial sense. It's gonna cost a lot of money to put up those noise barriers then on top of that spendature they won't be able to collect the same amount of money because the noise would be significantly less I'm thinking. So why do it? Unless all the reg money goes to Uncle Sam in which case then I'd imagine they would just spend the money for the barriers and reduce or cut out the need for the regs completely.

I used to work around an area with those barriers and its a big difference in noise in front and behind it.

 

[plumcrazy]

i think everyone feels and knows this is a fail for SRT. I think we ALL hope SRT steps up or maybe has something up their sleeve to come back in the end up and sweep up the competition. I just dont think SRT will. hope it does, but seriously doubt it.

I have to think ralph is fuming over all this magazine stuff. maybe its his wakeup call ? maybe its the best he coulddo with what he was allowed to do ?

generally speaking, It seems more of the older viper crowd (been owners for a longer time) are more upset with this version SRT is showing us than the younger crowd. maybe the older crowd just isnt the target anymore and we need to move on cause there are obviously some viper owners and lovers that love this version and what it is offering. YOUR/MY opinion does not matter to SRT anymore. its not a bad thing, it is what it is....

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

These are stock street cars we are talking about.See what will happen at the red light if you play with a 911 T/S ...That is why I bought one.Still have the love for the Viper,but SRT is strarting behind the power curve with the Gen.5.I am sure SRT will fix that soon...

 

[troublemaker]

I think this horse has been kicked plenty. As far as street racing goes, I guess I am passed that point in my life. Anything can be made to run fast, how many people that buy a performance car leave it stock? The aftermarket wouldn't even exist if we did. Lets see if SRT will let these be tunable like the early Gens, to me they will just be treading water if they don't. I purchased the car I did because that was the one that had what I wanted and didn't have what the government thought I needed. You can change performance, you can't change the looks. I feel that I fall into the crowd that isn't targeted by SRT anymore. If it is, I will keep what I have and moved on to the next adventure, there are plenty of performance cars out there.

 

[Snakester]

to those who say that to anyone but a corvette fan the zr1 is not special in my opinion is completely wrong. Any CAR enthusiast should respect the zr1 and understand that it is in fact someone special. Does it look similar to other corvettes? Sure. Is the engineering and performance the car offers amazing? By the butt kicking we are taking we all have to say yes

You mis-read what I said. I said that the ZR-1 is a great performance car, which is self-evident as it is a virtual match in performance to the new SRT Viper (and among the top performance cars in the world).
But frankly I wanted the ZR-1 to have supercar styling like the amazing Corvette Stingray concept car, to set it apart visually from the base Corvettes.

The Viper has that advantage.

 

[KenricGTS]

These are stock street cars we are talking about.See what will happen at the red light if you play with a 911 T/S ...That is why I bought one.Still have the love for the Viper,but SRT is strarting behind the power curve with the Gen.5.I am sure SRT will fix that soon...

Yea, I agree I have a 911 turbo with PDK with the EVO 650hp package and it flies from a dig all the way to 150....I was hoping for a stock supercharged V10 or twin turbos fr the new Viper. All these new cars are fast GTR, 911 turbo,458,Mclaren,ZR1,GT500,Z06,Lambos,ect. Hopefully SRT will refine and add power ect as the model years progress.

 

[plumcrazy]

I think this horse has been kicked plenty. As far as street racing goes, I guess I am passed that point in my life. Anything can be made to run fast, how many people that buy a performance car leave it stock? The aftermarket wouldn't even exist if we did. Lets see if SRT will let these be tunable like the early Gens, to me they will just be treading water if they don't. I purchased the car I did because that was the one that had what I wanted and didn't have what the government thought I needed. You can change performance, you can't change the looks. I feel that I fall into the crowd that isn't targeted by SRT anymore. If it is, I will keep what I have and moved on to the next adventure, there are plenty of performance cars out there.

true on everyone modding for the most part on the street. I just hope the new SRT is mod capable or friendly. the biggest problem with the SRT modding is going to be the controller.

 

[impalassed]

So true! Several Vetts in our small town, one Viper (Gen one at that)! I park it anywhere, out come the cameras from the tourists and locals alike. Gen 1 to Gen 5 it's a work of art on wheels. Personally I have a hard time comparing motor specs with a power adder to a N/A one. To me it's apples vs. oranges.

 

[REDSLED]

I've been told that non dB days are approximately $28,000.00 per day just for the sound permit .....not including other fees such as track rental, corner workers, etc. Does that sound correct?

George

There are roughly 10 non dbs racing days at Laguna Seca each year. Fees for those days haven't been made available to the public as those days are reserved for pro racing event (ALMS, Moto GP, Grand Am, Rennlist Reunion & Monterey Historics), that also involve ticket sales, concession sales, TV coverage and other pieces of the equation that are not involved with the traditional days. So I cannot confirm or deny your $28K. I do know that there are roughly (35) 105 dbs days and (35) 92 dbs days for 2013. The remainder of the days are 90 dbs. Pricing for a 105 dbs day is $20K. That includes track rental only. It is about another $9-10K in additonal costs for insurance, corner workers, ambulance, and towing priviledges. On P/R days, such as when magazines test, more times than not there is no one manning the sound booth so sound is not an issue. Not saying that was the case, but it is a possibility.

 

[texas_venom]

0-60 in 3.2 and people are saying the Viper got it's butt kicked. LMAO! Seriosuly every year since God knows when the mags have always favored Chevy. They simply spend more money in advertising than SRT does. The new Gen Viper is much fasterthan the last Viper... and once it starts hitting the track with a driver who doesnt work for the mag you will start to see records fall. The ZR-1 is a great car... so not slamming it. But its laughable to me that everyone keeps slamming the new Viper after reading the mag comparisons. hey thhe Viper lost in the 50-70 top gear pull... who cares? it doesnt have the cargo space... who cares? Seriously people get over it. Its nothing new.

 

[SnakeBitten]

0-60 in 3.2 and people are saying the Viper got it's butt kicked. LMAO! Seriosuly every year since God knows when the mags have always favored Chevy. They simply spend more money in advertising than SRT does. The new Gen Viper is much fasterthan the last Viper... and once it starts hitting the track with a driver who doesnt work for the mag you will start to see records fall. The ZR-1 is a great car... so not slamming it. But its laughable to me that everyone keeps slamming the new Viper after reading the mag comparisons. hey thhe Viper lost in the 50-70 top gear pull... who cares? it doesnt have the cargo space... who cares? Seriously people get over it. Its nothing new.

You are looking at the wrong numbers if you want to know why we are saying it got its butt kicked. 0-60 hasn't been that relevant since the 90's......Look at the 2 second a lap beat down it got in the road course from both mags and the 1 second beating it got from 0-150mph. That is the butt kickings we are talking about. But I'm not going to rehash the rest of it. It seems changes are in the works to make the "production" GTS better equipped for the next comparo...It wont win or at least be in the same zip code at a circuit track against a ZR1 unless they address the brake and tire issue. But we shall see what SRT has up its sleave...Ralphs tweets are at the very least promising...

I agree with yoiu though on how the mags are biased against the Viper. Ever since the love affair over the original GTS subsided in early 2000, the Viper cant win a comparo even when its dominating the performance catagory in a test about "performance" lol...It always lost those test because of no back seat, mpg or some other non performance related issue....

 

[emericr]

Here's my 2 cents from someone who is new to Viper but my interest had been peaked.
My expectations were high because of the Viper heritage. In 1992, when it came out, it spanked all the supercars on the track and even in straight line performance. traction was an issue for 0-60 but by the 1/4 it was ahead and building up speed even past that.
Taken from the same website to be consistent (http://www.zeroto60times.com)
Viper 0-60: 4.6 / 1/4 12.9
Lambo Diablo: 4.4 / 13.3 // F456: 4.7 / 13.1 // 91 Porsche 911 Turbo 4.8 / 13.2 / 93 Porsche 911RS 5.2 / 13.6.
All the other manufacturers had to go back to the drawing board and the bar was raised. All enthusiasts should thank the Viper.
We all are disappointed because we had set the bar so high and it did not deliver. Shame on SRT for not delivering and shame on us for may be expecting the moon.
I am sorry but I do NOT buy the fact that acceleration numbers are at the limit. Bugatti just announced a super veyron and they are claiming a 1.8 sec to 60.
The Viper should have been a 2.9 sec to 60 / mid to high 10s to 1/4 stock. Period. No ifs or buts.
If a 95K Nissan GTR can do it in 2.7 sec and high tens in the quarter, then SRT should have found a way to make it happen. Whether by more hp or lower weight, inexcusable.
I was going to spend about 150K and I wanted something that would be substantially better than a tuned luxury uber sedan that I can daily drive and carry a family. I wanted the "wow" factor both in terms of looks and performance.
Sorry SRT but I will pass.

 

[VENOM V]

Here's my 2 cents from someone who is new to Viper but my interest had been peaked.
My expectations were high because of the Viper heritage. In 1992, when it came out, it spanked all the supercars on the track and even in straight line performance. traction was an issue for 0-60 but by the 1/4 it was ahead and building up speed even past that.
Taken from the same website to be consistent (http://www.zeroto60times.com)
Viper 0-60: 4.6 / 1/4 12.9
Lambo Diablo: 4.4 / 13.3 // F456: 4.7 / 13.1 // 91 Porsche 911 Turbo 4.8 / 13.2 / 93 Porsche 911RS 5.2 / 13.6.
All the other manufacturers had to go back to the drawing board and the bar was raised. All enthusiasts should thank the Viper.
We all are disappointed because we had set the bar so high and it did not deliver. Shame on SRT for not delivering and shame on us for may be expecting the moon.
I am sorry but I do NOT buy the fact that acceleration numbers are at the limit. Bugatti just announced a super veyron and they are claiming a 1.8 sec to 60.
The Viper should have been a 2.9 sec to 60 / mid to high 10s to 1/4 stock. Period. No ifs or buts.
If a 95K Nissan GTR can do it in 2.7 sec and high tens in the quarter, then SRT should have found a way to make it happen. Whether by more hp or lower weight, inexcusable.
I was going to spend about 150K and I wanted something that would be substantially better than a tuned luxury uber sedan that I can daily drive and carry a family. I wanted the "wow" factor both in terms of looks and performance.
Sorry SRT but I will pass.

Still trying to justify your Mercedes purchase? LOL, dude move on. You remind me of the guy in the Harley commercial that chose the kitchen dinette set over the Harley. No offense, we all need our practical cars that can carry families. But your Mercedes is nothing like a Viper, completely different animals so don't even try comparing them. Not that the Viper is better, just different and stirs a heck of a lot more passion than a common 4 door. Ok I fibbed, the Viper is better.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I was going to spend about 150K and I wanted something that would be substantially better than a tuned luxury uber sedan that I can daily drive and carry a family. I wanted the "wow" factor both in terms of looks and performance.
Sorry SRT but I will pass.

I understand what you are trying to say beneath all the verbiage. In light of recent tweets from Ralph and SRT and the possibility that the ZR1 may not have been on the level, why not wait just a little to see what SRT will do? Sometimes a lot of these kinds of post is in a way reverse psychology in hopes that SRT will listen lol. I think they over hyped and under delivered myself and it sounds like they are going to do something about it. Give it some time and see what transpires.

BTW the GTR has DCT and AWD so thats why it can do 0-60 in 2.7 Secs. Asking the RWD manually shifted Viper to do that is not reasonable. The only showroom stock RWD car I can think of that does 0-60 in under 3 secs is the Mclaren MP4 but it has DCT and LC. Viper doesn't. In a car like the Viper I wouldn't stress 0-60 too much. It did do a 0-60 in 3.2 secs in the last mag test if you dont know. Not bad.

 

[ViperSmith]

Clearly the Viper lags behind since it gets beat by the Bugatti at 1.8 0-60 and thus is a complete pile of garbage.

 

[bushido]

Still trying to justify your Mercedes purchase? LOL, dude move on. You remind me of the guy in the Harley commercial that chose the kitchen dinette set over the Harley. No offense, we all need our practical cars that can carry families. But your Mercedes is nothing like a Viper, completely different animals so don't even try comparing them. Not that the Viper is better, just different and stirs a heck of a lot more passion than a common 4 door. Ok I fibbed, the Viper is better.

I understand what you are trying to say beneath all the verbiage. In light of recent tweets from Ralph and SRT and the possibility that the ZR1 may not have been on the level, why not wait just a little to see what SRT will do? Sometimes a lot of these kinds of post is in a way reverse psychology in hopes that SRT will listen lol. I think they over hyped and under delivered myself and it sounds like they are going to do something about it. Give it some time and see what transpires.

BTW the GTR has DCT and AWD so thats why it can do 0-60 in 2.7 Secs. Asking the RWD manually shifted Viper to do that is not reasonable. The only showroom stock RWD car I can think of that does 0-60 in under 3 secs is the Mclaren MP4 but it has DCT and LC. Viper doesn't. In a car like the Viper I wouldn't stress 0-60 too much. It did do a 0-60 in 3.2 secs in the last mag test if you dont know. Not bad.

I don't blame emericr's feelings. The new Mercedez are FAST..
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/660047-C-amp-D-Exclusive-2014-Mercedez-Benz-E-36-AMG-1st-Ride