Car&Driver:ZR1 beats the Viper...again

[mnc2886]

Clearly the Viper lags behind since it gets beat by the Bugatti at 1.8 0-60 and thus is a complete pile of garbage.

HaHa....favorite post in the thread!!!

 

[SnakeBitten]

I don't blame emericr's feelings. The new Mercedez are FAST..
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/660047-C-amp-D-Exclusive-2014-Mercedez-Benz-E-36-AMG-1st-Ride

I don't either as I am one that was very critical of the Gen V's performance. I'm just saying in light of some of the recent information in regards the ZR1 and Ralph's tweets etc maybe he should wait and see if the Viper may yet still redeem itself. Whether is does or not is squarely on Ralph's shoulders. I'm still skeptical on what they will do with the Viper but it might be wise to wait and see before spending 150k.

Supposed emericr buys the Benz and then the production Vipers with working launch control and betters gets the sub 3 sec 0-60 time he is looking for and is even faster in the 1/4 mile etc than the pre-production car in those tests then what? It sounded like his heart was set on the Viper. Of course its his money and I'm just playing devils advocate.

 

[VENOM V]

I don't blame emericr's feelings. The new Mercedez are FAST..
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/660047-C-amp-D-Exclusive-2014-Mercedez-Benz-E-36-AMG-1st-Ride

If a Ford Taurus were FAST, I wouldn't buy one as a track car / dream car / weekend getaway car. Everyone's looking for something different. I'm looking for a car that inspires me to the point that I will keep for decades or maybe a lifetime. I've owned a Mercedes and really like them, but sold it after 4 years. I would buy another, but not as my supercar. As my daily driver and family hauler, sure. Totally different animals, I think the comparison is far fetched.

 

[bushido]

I don't either as I am one that was very critical of the Gen V's performance. I'm just saying in light of some of the recent information in regards the ZR1 and Ralph's tweets etc maybe he should wait and see if the Viper may yet still redeem itself. Whether is does or not is squarely on Ralph's shoulders. I'm still skeptical on what they will do with the Viper but it might be wise to wait and see before spending 150k.

Supposed emericr buys the Benz and then the production Vipers with working launch control and betters gets the sub 3 sec 0-60 time he is looking for and is even faster in the 1/4 mile etc than the pre-production car in those tests then what? It sounded like his heart was set on the Viper. Of course its his money and I'm just playing devils advocate.

SB I hear you man ,and understand how you feel. Me, I feel like I was a little duked. To me it seemed like Ralph was confident that this new Viper was gonna be superior over the ZR1 in every category. Confident by his tweets,and some of the things he said at the showing of the car. I really hope they can turn things around too,and at the same time happy that have my 010 ACR. Keeping my fingers crossed..

As far as the Mercedez. It's twin turbo. So it would be easy to do a tune,and raise the boost..

 

[bushido]

If a Ford Taurus were FAST, I wouldn't buy one as a track car / dream car / weekend getaway car. Everyone's looking for something different. I'm looking for a car that inspires me to the point that I will keep for decades or maybe a lifetime. I've owned a Mercedes and really like them, but sold it after 4 years. I would buy another, but not as my supercar. As my daily driver and family hauler, sure. Totally different animals, I think the comparison is far fetched.

Yeah well this is going to be your 1st Viper I take. So I kind of understand the position you're in,and how you feel. Me I got two Vipers,and the way things have been going. I'm really happy I bought my 010 ACR ..

 

[VENOM V]

Yeah well this is going to be your 1st Viper I take. So I kind of understand the position you're in,and how you feel. Me I got two Vipers,and the way things have been going. I'm really happy I bought my 010 ACR ..

I wish I had a Gen IV ACR too, amazing machine! Absolutely a record setting beast.

 

[elanderholm]

Yeah well this is going to be your 1st Viper I take. So I kind of understand the position you're in,and how you feel. Me I got two Vipers,and the way things have been going. I'm really happy I bought my 010 ACR ..

why most likely both or our cars are slower then that new Zr1 on track...that seems to be everyone's measuring stick so both are terrible apparently.

 

[bushido]

why most likely both or our cars are slower then that new Zr1 on track...that seems to be everyone's measuring stick so both are terrible apparently.

Just a tick ..

 

[SnakeBitten]

SB I hear you man ,and understand how you feel. Me, I feel like I was a little duked. To me it seemed like Ralph was confident that this new Viper was gonna be superior over the ZR1 in every category. Confident by his tweets,and some of the things he said at the showing of the car. I really hope they can turn things around too,and at the same time happy that have my 010 ACR. Keeping my fingers crossed..

As far as the Mercedez. It's twin turbo. So it would be easy to do a tune,and raise the boost..

I hear you bushido. Ive had time to think after that intial shock from those tests and as you mentioned Ralph was very confident the Viper would be superior because of the testing they did at SRT. Ralph and none of the people at SRT are fools so to see his seemingly genuine surprise from Ralph at the 2 sec beat down makes me feel something is definitely up with those ZR1's the mags tested. Factoring that possibility in, I have dialed back my criticism just a bit. However if SRT did intially try to surpass the ZR1 by a decent measure instead of just matching it then the tests would not be so lopsided. They would have been much closer in performance even with a ringer ZR1. Im sure SRT has learned from this.

As for those Benz's they have a history of running with fast sports cars with mild mods so its no surprise to me how potent they are in a straight line. A couple of my friends back in the day had some Benz's and M6's with mods that would outrun stock Gallardos, Vettes and the like up in Long Island. If you want straight line fast with comfortable room for a family they are hard to beat. Turbo = trouble with minimal mods.

 

[emericr]

Still trying to justify your Mercedes purchase? LOL, dude move on. You remind me of the guy in the Harley commercial that chose the kitchen dinette set over the Harley. No offense, we all need our practical cars that can carry families. But your Mercedes is nothing like a Viper, completely different animals so don't even try comparing them. Not that the Viper is better, just different and stirs a heck of a lot more passion than a common 4 door. Ok I fibbed, the Viper is better.

I think you misunderstand my point. I had a C63AMG and I sold it. I am in the market and yes I was cross shopping the Viper with an E63/CLS63. My call, the last time I checked. Performance is performance whether it is in a 4 door sedan, truck or supercar as long as the car makes you smile every time you step on the pedal.
I had high hopes for the Viper as I would have foregone luxury, built quality and space for 4 for the Viper if it had the supercar performance. Its history proved it could. I am not bashing the car, just very disappointed. the Viper has never been know to be average about anything.
As stated before, I do not have the means to have both an uber sedan and a Viper. If I could, the Viper would be it. I don't feel like driving a regular $40K sedan or truck and when I would encounter a Porsche or a vette to have some fun, dream about the Viper sitting in the garage.
Therefore, I have to make a choice and the choice unfortunately is clear. I would rather spend 110K for Viper like straight line performance in a Benz, or M car and still have 40K to spend on track sessions with other people's car.
I can only hope that SRT comes up with an improved model. I do not care if it needs an auto DCT box and 4wd. Make it an option and charge accordingly.

 

[bluestreak]

. I do not care if it needs an auto DCT box and 4wd. Make it an option and charge accordingly.

Go buy a GT-R or used PDK Turbo. You don't make AWD (not 4WD) an option on a niche low volume performance car.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

You don't belong in a Viper, even if it did do a 2.9 0-60, it would take skill to do it in a Viper package, it's not going to do it on it's own.

 

[ACRucrazy]

AWD Auto Viper! Haha. Put it out of it's misery before then!

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

Just like stated before,you want to go fast,go get a Porsche 991 Turbo S or 12/13 GTR.It is,what it is....

 

[emericr]

Stop the BS about you guys not caring about speed. You are making excuses because the Viper is not the king any more.
The Viper needs to start attracting more than the "old" macho crowd who wants a stick shift car that can kill them otherwise it may not live much longer.
All I am saying is make it an option. You don't have to buy if you don't like it. There is a reason why the supercars like Ferrari and Lambo mostly sell automatic.
It is called evolution. I think SRT realizes it as they already have offered a bare bone car and a GTS.
I can bet you right now that if SRT would offer a car that would have have the performance I mentioned with DCT and/or some form of AWD, the car would outsell the purist stick version that is one second slower in the quarter and on the track.
Both platforms can live together.
Happy New Year to all by the way.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Imho the Viper doesnt need awd to survive. If it had awd it would be a 3700-3800lb pig like the GTR then there would be even more complaints. DCT and LC I more see in the future than awd. There are other car options for awd and dct if someone wants that technology but as you can see by the Ring times of the ACR, awd and dct are not even remotely necessary to be dominant on a track which is what the Viper was supposed to be about.

The "newest" nearest awd/DCT car is more than 7 seconds behind the 2010 ACR which says a lot. The Viper is fine with RWD. A working LC and DCT would be a nice addition for the conquest customers that SRT is looking to get and some previous Viper owners. The MP4-12 with its DCT/RWD is about as fast as an AWD/DCT GTR to 60mph that you have as your benchmark for what you want. Viper doesnt need AWD at least not in its current config. Too much added weight.

 

[emericr]

In its current newest form, it is no longer the king. I am not an engineer so I am just throwing options that other manufacturers are doing.
As an example only, the new AMG 4matic is supposed to be about 130 pounds more. It should be easy for SRT to save that weight by taking out a few feature comforts or using more light weight materials to keep the weight the same.
I don't care exactly how SRT does it. Give me a mid 10 sec car stock and I will jump and praise the new Viper. Until then, I am a fan (or troll like some people say) but no owner at that price. I would rather buy a 200X GenIV for 50K.

 

[ACRucrazy]

In its current newest form, it is no longer the king. I am not an engineer....

Point taken.

 

[bluestreak]

Stop the BS about you guys not caring about speed. You are making excuses because the Viper is not the king any more.
The Viper needs to start attracting more than the "old" macho crowd who wants a stick shift car that can kill them otherwise it may not live much longer.
All I am saying is make it an option. You don't have to buy if you don't like it. There is a reason why the supercars like Ferrari and Lambo mostly sell automatic.
It is called evolution. I think SRT realizes it as they already have offered a bare bone car and a GTS.
I can bet you right now that if SRT would offer a car that would have have the performance I mentioned with DCT and/or some form of AWD, the car would outsell the purist stick version that is one second slower in the quarter and on the track.
Both platforms can live together.
Happy New Year to all by the way.

Nonsense. What don't you understand about the Viper not selling enough units to justify both an AWD and RWD version......

An AWD Viper now weighs 3500-3600 lbs, and AWD DCT Viper 3700-3800 lbs. There is a reason the GT-R is a horrible race car and that Porsche uses the GT3 and not the Turbo for racing.

As mentioned, the Viper and Corvette both are still blowing the doors off anything remotely in the price range with AWD and DCT. Why? Because all of those nannies cost a lot of money to build and maintain. You just can't make a budget friendly supercar with all of that garbage. And the maintenance costs are even worse.

There are enough remote control cars out there that can launch on their own with AWD for grip, and then lose all driver involvement, but I'm assuming you know nothing of the sort since you keep talking about AMG's, lol. What fun is it when your grandma can get in the car and go as fast or faster than you can by pushing a button, holding down the gas and going?

You presume to know a lot, but aren't showing much knowledge. AWD Viper does not sell well, you clearly don't know the market. GT-R has to update every year to stay relevant or the sales completely tank. Porsche Turbo models far outsold by GT3.

Still waiting for you to say something relevant.

In its current newest form, it is no longer the king. I am not an engineer so I am just throwing options that other manufacturers are doing.
As an example only, the new AMG 4matic is supposed to be about 130 pounds more. It should be easy for SRT to save that weight by taking out a few feature comforts or using more light weight materials to keep the weight the same.
I don't care exactly how SRT does it. Give me a mid 10 sec car stock and I will jump and praise the new Viper. Until then, I am a fan (or troll like some people say) but no owner at that price. I would rather buy a 200X GenIV for 50K.

I honestly don't think SRT cares if you buy a Viper based on your criteria. That you can bet on.


Brought to you by SRT.........

 

[elanderholm]

Stop the BS about you guys not caring about speed. You are making excuses because the Viper is not the king any more.
The Viper needs to start attracting more than the "old" macho crowd who wants a stick shift car that can kill them otherwise it may not live much longer.
All I am saying is make it an option. You don't have to buy if you don't like it. There is a reason why the supercars like Ferrari and Lambo mostly sell automatic.
It is called evolution. I think SRT realizes it as they already have offered a bare bone car and a GTS.
I can bet you right now that if SRT would offer a car that would have have the performance I mentioned with DCT and/or some form of AWD, the car would outsell the purist stick version that is one second slower in the quarter and on the track.
Both platforms can live together.
Happy New Year to all by the way.

Define speed. When was the viper ever the 'King?'

 

[troublemaker]

I think the Viper will evolve wether it wants to or not. I wouldn't be opposed to a short stroke high revving FI V10. There are many on here that have proved turbos work great on the motor. I don't know what it adds for weight, but those pounds I'm sure can be lost elsewhere. Moving to a transaxle like mentioned above should offset some of the weight distribution. I'm all for keeping the soul of the Viper intact, but that doesn't mean it can't change with the times. It's still the same basic layout now as it was from day one. I think that says quite a bit about how far they have gone, but it might need to change a little to see how far it can go. The ZR1 is what has really started all these threads and is a prime example of a smaller motor with a SC that just plain works. As long as its two American made cars in this battle, I honestly don't care about the outcome. I for one still believe that the first evolution will be more models meeting cheaper price points that will attract buyers that wouldn't even consider a 6 figure car.

 

[bluestreak]

Change is ok, FI is probably inevitable. But AWD? It's no longer a Viper, might as well make a different more yuppie oriented car. Paddle shift auto? Meh......

Still have yet to see any good drivers at the track (road course) in cars with paddle shifts. Mostly people that want paddles are ones lacking driver skill. Time and time again it has been proven that they just aren't much if any faster than a well driven manual (in the same car). For a good amateur driver it will amount to less than a second, pro's can pretty much nullify any shifting advantage with braking (less weight).

Launching is another story, but there is nothing fun to me about a bunch of cars that no matter who's driving, cut the same time. I am not, and never will be interested in that. As long as there are lighter RWD manual cars, I will take them and gladly beat up on the overweight nanny riden techno cars with the poor drivers they seem to attract.

 

[emericr]

I said and I repeat: I do not care how SRT does it. You keep pounding the AWD. that was just an example.
Bluestreak: you should check what a C63BS does around LS. It is as involving as the Viper. I seriously doubt that GT3 outsold Turbo sales. Would love to see where you get those numbers.
troublemaker: are you really serious with your question? do a little research first please on "king of the ring"

 

[bluestreak]

I said and I repeat: I do not care how SRT does it. You keep pounding the AWD. that was just an example.
Bluestreak: you should check what a C63BS does around LS. It is as involving as the Viper. I seriously doubt that GT3 outsold Turbo sales. Would love to see where you get those numbers.
troublemaker: are you really serious with your question? do a little research first please on "king of the ring"

You even mention AWD in a Viper is automatically going to nullify your opinion. Your words are now just blah blah blah....blah blah.

The only other way to lightning quick 0-60 is super light weight and super expensive, neither of which suits the Viper's manufacturer or clientele. Please use some common sense.

The C63BS is as involving as the Viper? Wow, just when I thought you couldn't go any lower. That automatic is TERRIBLE and sluggish shifting. Mercedes doesn't make sports cars. That is a GT. Period. Based on a 2x2 chassis CClass with a body kit and a big motor. You have really outdone yourself now.

 

[troublemaker]

troublemaker: are you really serious with your question? do a little research first please on "king of the ring"

What question?

 

[05Commemorative]

Seems like way more passion and opinions dominating this post vs facts.

1) Viper was never the performance king is a fact. If just going to use the Ring as the qualifier then when have no data to reference with the new GenV car for this so no way of knowing yet.
2) The C63 BS (Black Series) is a very involved car and we should not dismiss as if a standard c-class car. More than a viper? well doubtful, but not a crazy example to bring up.
3) Why are we even having a discussion between an AMG sedan and a GenV viper? Silly discussion to have on every single front except straight line accelaration and honestly both cars are about so much more than that. Do you want to shift gears in a very fast a capable 2 seater as the Viper? If yes, then buy it. Do you want to have a straightline fast machine in the form of a sedan with German luxury/quality as the AMG machines, then buy it. But, why confusion/debate on the two as just make up your mind on what kind of car you are looking for. I am baffled on how magazine articles/tests would make a difference in the decision.