Cash discount?

[slaughterj]

I don't think you will have to pay sales tax if you buy it and ship it out of the country, but can't be sure. Here's my reasons: (1) I bought my Viper from an individual in FL, to be registered in NC, but only had to pay the individual the purchase price, and only when I went to register the vehicle in NC did I have to pay the vehicle sales tax; (2) when I bought a truck in NC to register in VA, I had the option to pay the sales tax or not at the time of purchase, and if I paid it, it would be credited against the VA required tax (the reason I paid it was because (1) it was the same amount and (2) that way it was financed rather than out of pocket).

 

[Miles B]

I'm a US citizen but have lived in Australia for years and years. I know a few other ex pats over here as well. We are all apparently supposed to be putting in tax returns with Uncle Sam.. how ridiculous is that? I live over here and pay the stupid high tax rates here, and I don't use ANY American government stuff - roads, healthcare, social security, education.. but still I'm supposed to pay my tax back there if I come back home to see the relatives for more than a week or whatever. Sure, I would probably get it all back, but who cares.. too much trouble.

If you buy the car and export it, you don't pay the sales tax there.. I believe you tell them the car is being permanently de-registered and exported for their records and that's it. Let the ****** commence when you import (well, probably not for Monaco). If I can get a Viper for 38k, I can get it on the Australian roads for 88k. That's right, more than 100% in taxes and steering conversion. Do you actually live and work in Monaco (lucky!!!), or you just based there for tax purposes, and spend most of your time elsewhere? I used to travel for work and I understand these things........

Lay off the guy.. he obviously has moved out of the USA (even the IRS agrees!) - after all he is getting his Viper shipped over, and lucky for him he has moved to Monaco (paradise on earth). I believe the question was not originally pointed at a tax dodge for himself - he was just hoping that cash would be a bit of an attraction to a seller, resulting in savings through lower purchase price. Bottom line, if you move overseas, you shouldn't have to pay tax back home. The IRS agrees (even though their rules are still really tighta$$). Doesn't mean we're unAmerican, and sure as hell doesn't mean I'm going to drop my citizenship if I can help it... it's where I'm from and who I am, and as hard as it is to be an American overseas, I'm proud to be.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I am still kind of a hard a$$ on this topic. Sorry. First off if you are paying foreign income taxes they reduce your US liability. So if you paid more there I believe your US taxes would be at or near zero.

Secondly, most of us live more than our working life in the US. You only pay significant taxes while you earn money. So the years that you are not earning money (childhood, retirement, etc.) are really paid for during your working years. Also, taxes paid are for society's benefit as a whole. We share the cost of many things including the poor, infirmed, infrastructure, etc. Because you cheat we have to pay more than our fair share to cover your share. Now why would I be happy that you are costing me money?

In any way being a citizen does not mean just being born here. It means pulling your weight. Not just for your benefit alone, but for the US society as a whole. So even if I do not like it, and work to minimize my tax burden, I pay my taxes and do my part. Any other choice is cheating from the rest of us. Not cheating the government, but cheating your fellow citizens.

 

[Miles B]

But I have moved out of the US, and am not moving back. Why should I shoulder the burden of the poor there? Why should I build American infrastructure I don't use? Yes, I would get credit for tax paid here. But get this. Over here, the government changed the way it collects taxes. We got a decent income tax cut, in return for a 10% sales tax slug across the board. I get the same amount in my pocket each week after it's all done, but now I would have to pay the income tax cut I got to the IRS! I would have LESS money! Countries do collect taxes differently!

What this ends up for me is either:
1) Drop my American citizenship
2) I am very limited on the time I am allowed to spend visiting my relatives, or otherwise being a tourist and spending my money on US shores. Basically, anyone else but me, is allowed to go see the sites in the US as much as they want. I get in trouble for doing it and charged a bunch of income tax. Hardly seems fair does it? I'm not coming over for 2 weeks to stick the kids in school am I? Hell, I don't even have kids.

You are trying to tell me that since I have moved out of the USA, you still want me to pay tax there? Get real, that's the least fair thing I have ever heard. The government uses taxes as a means to redistribute income among its residents and build communal facilities. Period. That is all government is there for. So I should pay "for the greater glory" or something?

I'm not cheating anyone, and the US government agrees with me. I would be the one being cheated - I'd get nothing for my money. "Now why would I be happy that you are costing me money?" - I am NOT costing you any money. If anything, I inject money into YOUR economy when I come to visit.

Yeah, if you're a soldier stationed overseas, of course you should be paying your taxes! You still keep your residence in the USA, and will be returning there. I won't. I was schooled here, and will live here.

So you work to minimize your tax burden? YOU CHEAT. I don't. Never have. I am proud to pay every cent of tax the government in my country of residence asks for. I use the facilities, I pay my way. They make the laws to gather what has been deemed the fair amount of tax per person, and you are AVOIDING IT? Shame on you. You are NOT doing your part.

 

[Miles B]

Oh, and another thing. I'm all for paying your tax to the US if you are planning on coming back for retirement - I get your point there and totally agree. But the IRS has rules for that too. If you show up and say "Hi, I'm 65 and I'd like my Social Security cheque now please", they tell you where to stick it, or hand you a giant back tax bill.

 

[ViperJoe]

But the IRS has rules for that too. If you show up and say "Hi, I'm 65 and I'd like my Social Security cheque now please", they tell you where to stick it, or hand you a giant back tax bill.

I was just going to ask that. Glad there are rules so there is no fleecing of America in that regard!

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Simple answer if you plan on wiring money -- no tax in US.The car , regardless of what you want to do will have to go through US Customs. Once in Monaco, the taxes you pay will be based on importation, custom duties, legal requirements for registration, etc. If there aren't any, you are not going to be subject to any taxes either place. The US issue is a moot point, but the cash will be of no consequence to any Dealer if you wire funds, as this is no longer a cash transaction. The benefit you may have thought existed by paying all cash, is in reality the biggest hurdle. Wire the money and no sweat. We have done numerous overseas sales , and they are somewhat of a hassle, so few folks even want to attempt them. As stated the cash is a Red Flag for drug money, laundered funds, etc. and it alerts both the IRS and the Feds, so keep things on the up and up and wire.

 

[Miles B]

I was just going to ask that. Glad there are rules so there is no fleecing of America in that regard!

Man, believe me.. Uncle Sam don't bend over for noone!!

 

[WilBriK]

"...if you are paying foreign income taxes they reduce your US liability. So if you paid more there I believe your US taxes would be at or near zero."

Right. But Monaco has NO income tax. That's why it's the world's premiere tax haven. Even by following the law to the letter, I still am obligated to pay NO taxes.


"...most of us live more than our working life in the US. You only pay significant taxes while you earn money. So the years that you are not earning money (childhood, retirement, etc.) are really paid for during your working years. Also, taxes paid are for society's benefit as a whole. We share the cost of many things including the poor, infirmed, infrastructure, etc. Because you cheat we have to pay more than our fair share to cover your share. Now why would I be happy that you are costing me money?"

Ahhh now we're making headway. You are under the assumption that I am going to come back to the U.S. and bilk Social Security. I never implied that I plan to return. If viewed that way, and I never establish residence there again, I would deserve all my Social Security taxes back - a hefty sum, I might add. Currently, I am planning to live in Brazil, South Africa or New Zealand. I do not plan to move back to the U.S. So by me keeping my citizenship to the country I was born in, have payed taxes to, but will not take anything from, you STILL think I should pay taxes to the U.S. government?


"In any way being a citizen does not mean just being born here. It means pulling your weight. Not just for your benefit alone, but for the US society as a whole. So even if I do not like it, and work to minimize my tax burden, I pay my taxes and do my part. Any other choice is cheating from the rest of us. Not cheating the government, but cheating your fellow citizens."

Cheating them HOW? I am NOT using the country's infrastructure in any way, shape or form. I do not plan on using it in the future. So why on Earth do you think I should pay taxes to the government - for the privilege of carrying a U.S. passport?

 

[WilBriK]

Bill,

Thanks for the info. I've read nothing but good things about you on this board and your useful contribution to this thread only supports what I've heard.

Just so you know, I develop and maintain computer security systems for businesses in Monaco. It's not dirty. Some of my clients are of... 'questionable' character, but my line of work, in and of itself, is clean.

I imagine you've sold a car to an unsavory character at some point in your career, unwittingly or not but that doesn't make your business dirty. Hell, someone sold Bonnie & Clyde their car...

 

[slaughterj]

But get this. Over here, the government changed the way it collects taxes. We got a decent income tax cut, in return for a 10% sales tax slug across the board. I get the same amount in my pocket each week after it's all done, but now I would have to pay the income tax cut I got to the IRS! I would have LESS money! Countries do collect taxes differently!

Wow, now that's a really good point! A country with only a huge sales tax and no income tax would mean that the U.S. would still expect its income tax cut due to the lack of equivalent payment to the resident country, and you'd really be sucking!

 

[Big Medicine]

I consider it my duty & obligation to pay the least amount of taxes I can as defined in Part One of Title 26 of the Code of Federal Regulations, specifically as it relates to itemized deductions in Section 16.

Simple maths tells me they are getting MORE than their fair share & wasting it. How much is enough folks? 40% ? 50%?

Just how much of my money does the government need? Let's just get it over with & out in the open & quit diddling.

Anyone watch 60 Minutes this past Sunday? Using imminent domain to transfer private assets from an individual (fair market) to another private entity (developer receiving assets ata discount) just so they can increase their tax base?

This country's founders saw fit to ****** over less than this & started a revolution. I just can't fathom how some people consider paying "the fair share" as sane. I makes me want to puke. The government is a crack addict & their "crack" is your money.

 

[GR8_ASP]

No where did I advocate that the amount of taxes we pay is good or proper. And when I mention to mininize my tax burden I clearly meant legally, within the intent of the tax code. Not cheating, but honesty. What I said is that if someone does not pay their share someone else picks up the tab. That is true no matter how much the tax is. I also did not say anything about someone that never intended to return to the US. I was reading what was stated and that is:

"Perhaps you didn't read my post carefully. I am almost NEVER in the U.S. Thirty days per year or less. I have been out of the country 8 months already, and am not due back for another 10, so why should I pay income taxes to a country I'm not living in, especially when my income is from a company that has nothing to do with the U.S.?"

I do not think the intent to return in 10 months qualifies as never returning. My response was directed toward your stated short term (18 month) period out of country and not a lifetime. Someone who only works overseas for 18 months and expects to have it tax free is freeloading.

 

[Miles B]

SRT... I was just gettin' at ya a bit when I said the bit about tax minimization heh heh. Of course we all do.. but my point is.. the gov determines your fair share, and minimizing is you (and I) determining our own rate.. and I guess some people determine that to be 0.01%? Now you and I do pay our fair share, but ya get the BS point I was making right?

I agree with Big Med. You should see how they waste tax $ over here!!! Get this, for every $1.00 they collect in income tax, the Australian Federal Government pays $0.92 in social security. Mostly to people who don't need it. It is a huge problem here and probably won't change, as the country is full of lazy voters. I bet they could start to fix the problem just by making voting non-compulsory. The lazy SS layabouts wouldn't bother to vote and influence the gov to keep handing out money, and maybe we could get things done.

Get this: with a 20% reduction in social security payments here (which believe me, is entirely do-able), we could have about the world's only totally free health care system. The health budget is less than half the size of SS!

I think what WilBrik meant by "returning" in 10 months, is just for a very shortterm visit. This lucky ****** SOB has got himself the sweetest place ever to live and work. No way in hell I would be moving back anywhere from there. I visited Monaco while I was working in Europe, and instantly said "I must one day make enough money to live here". WB, you need an assistant? I've got a B.E. with honours in digital electronics, and a B.Sc. in computer science. I did 4 years of French in high school and can probably pick it back up pretty quick!!

Pick me! Pick me!

 

[WilBriK]

"No where did I advocate that the amount of taxes we pay is good or proper. And when I mention to mininize my tax burden I clearly meant legally, within the intent of the tax code. Not cheating, but honesty. What I said is that if someone does not pay their share someone else picks up the tab. That is true no matter how much the tax is."

You never said it outright, but by your staunch insistency implied it. Why would you defend a tax code you thought unfair? And as I've said several times, what I am doing is LEGAL by the definiton of the IRS. You might not like what I'm doing, but that makes it no less legal. The U.S. government made the 330-day rule. I am simply taking advantage of the rules they set, just like you do when you make LEGAL deductions. It just so happens that my deductions allow me to retain 100% of my income tax.


"I also did not say anything about someone that never intended to return to the US. I was reading what was stated and that is:

"Perhaps you didn't read my post carefully. I am almost NEVER in the U.S. Thirty days per year or less. I have been out of the country 8 months already, and am not due back for another 10, so why should I pay income taxes to a country I'm not living in, especially when my income is from a company that has nothing to do with the U.S.?"

I do not think the intent to return in 10 months qualifies as never returning. My response was directed toward your stated short term (18 month) period out of country and not a lifetime. Someone who only works overseas for 18 months and expects to have it tax free is freeloading."

I can see how that might be misleading, but I also stated that, "I am almost NEVER in the U.S. Thirty days per year or less." which is an open-ended implication. And Miles B surmised correctly that when I come back, it will be for a brief (2 months or less) visit with my friends and family. That's basically the only reason I'm keeping a U.S. passport - it makes it MUCH easier to visit.

 

[Miles B]

Heh heh so no job? Dangit...

"Will Zaino for room and board"

 

[Big Medicine]

I expect to have all my income tax free, geographic disposition notwithstanding, & I don't see anything wrong with that; neither did the founding fathers.

We need to eliminate the income tax altogether & come up with something new & constitutional. Hopefully an indirect method of revenue collection or an apportioned tax.

We need to figure out how much is enough & when we reach our limit, we need to decide which "program" to cut in order to fund a new one instead of piling one on top of another.

My vote, anyway.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Miles thanks for the clarification. I did take it as a short term international assignment.

Sounds like you may meet the 330 day requirement and thus declare no taxes legally. That would be okay and justifiable. Just not filing is not a good choice as the reward is not enough for the risk (to me).

BTW I am very unfavorable toward the levels of taxation, especially the increasing responsibility that higher incomes provide. But the way to correct that in the US is through the archaic, slow and incredibly red tape laden bureaucratic system. The US system has its faults, especially the democrats but is way better than just about anywhere else on the planet.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

My apologies, as I never intended to make it seem like I thought your funds were suspect, just trying to explain that this is why forms are required by Dealerships to be filled out. In years past cash was fine, it has just in the past 10 years or so become an issue that requires endless paperwork if limits are exceeded. Living in Monaco, you will have no issues ,unless there is some obscure custom/importation tax, as nothing would be collected stateside. Good luck .

 

[Big Medicine]

TOUCHE

Miles thanks for the clarification. I did take it as a short term international assignment.

Sounds like you may meet the 330 day requirement and thus declare no taxes legally. That would be okay and justifiable. Just not filing is not a good choice as the reward is not enough for the risk (to me).

BTW I am very unfavorable toward the levels of taxation, especially the increasing responsibility that higher incomes provide. But the way to correct that in the US is through the archaic, slow and incredibly red tape laden bureaucratic system. The US system has its faults, especially the democrats but is way better than just about anywhere else on the planet.

 

[GCHDEALER]

It is all cash when you cash a check! Personally I do not want that much cash at one time to be responcible for, let the bank handle it.

 

[joe117]

"I consider it my duty & obligation to pay the least amount of taxes I can as defined in Part One of Title 26 of the Code of Federal Regulations, specifically as it relates to itemized deductions in Section 16."

I think this says it all when we are talking about income tax.

When we are talking about paying for something in cash, receiving a kickback in the form of a low price,

then we are talking about a plan devised to illegally avoid paying the tax due.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Read this guys response in the description. Thought it was funny and makes this arguemant moot.

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=138275435&dealer_id=&car_year=1997&make=DODGE&distance=any&max_price=&model=VIPER&advcd_on=n&end_year=1999&min_price=&first_record=51&address=36330&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1997&=&color=&cardist=811