Got a big laugh out of this comment. We watched that new show she is on, Extant, last night. I was thinking to myself, what happened to her......
Challenger Hellcat gets 707HP!
- Thread starter stingray23
- Start date
Got a big laugh out of this comment. We watched that new show she is on, Extant, last night. I was thinking to myself, what happened to her......
That really is a great price...especially considering how often owners will be needing new rear tires.
The GTR's success proves your theory wrong. Most people who purchased the GTR was able to overlook the bland sedan like styling for the huge performance aftermarket that is available to turn them into high hp street/track cars. With the current new Viper, your stuck with only being able to add headers and exhaust. And even with that you still can't even correct the air/fuel ratio to maximize the power for this very minor mod.
Age: it happens to us all.
Wouldn't add a blip to the sales figures, and that's assuming all the "talkers" who say it's what's holding them back actually stepped up.
Doubtful they would. Not to mention there is talk now of aftermarket tuning coming out.
So we should expect those sales figures to stat rocketing?
SnakeBitten
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BlueLIGHTNING
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That is IMO the best looking viper out there, shame they didn't build it even sweeter that 96 GTS
Ive always said this exact thing. GTS was a beautiful car, gen 3/4 coupes are beautiful too, and the gen 5 is the best looking viper made. BUT, there was no need to go "retro" this early in a cars life. Styling 100% needed to evolve from the gen 4.
That Volado design looks like a stupid kit car.
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
A lot of you would be wrong about the styling. Market research results for the Gen V showed styling as the most appealling of many aspects. Not surprising that some who have been around Vipers forever might like a change, but others seem to think it's awesome.
I love the Gen 5 styling. It looks like a Viper should and the moment I saw a pic of it I knew I had to have one. This idea that we need to change for the sake of changing is pointless and the Gen 4 styling was uninspired, like many imports. Retro styling is for companies that have run out of ideas - the Gen 5 has timeless styling. I assure you it will be as **** in 20 years as it is today; it's never going to look old.
Agreed.
FWIW, I don't consider the Gen 5 to have a "retro" design.
To my eyes, it is more of a refinement of the gorgeous curves of the Gen 2.
OTOH and now that I think about it, so was Gen 3&4....
To some degree, I would agree.
Gen 5 is by far the most "beautifully" styled....from the inside out.
The interior is drop-dead gorgeous.
The exterior, with its Aston Martin inspired tail lights, and badass racecar diffuser, all the way to the LED headlamps and the little "V" in the front grill is just about perfect.
It's hard to ask for more....
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
Believe it or not guys, they actually know their engines well enough that they didn't have to try the Hellcat in the Viper to know that while it was really well-suited for the Challenger's performance goals and target buyer, it wasn't for Viper. The Gen V was designed by hard-core track enthusiasts and racers to be the best world-class track supercar in the world. The TA's development was single-focused on that goal. The Viper is an unqualified success that's waiting for buyers looking for those qualities to discover it.
Viper owners and enthusasts who don't track their cars, or share SRT's performance goals, should just accept that reality and stop trying to pick apart the Gen V. Maybe a future Viper will be designed around more member's personal goals, but until then I think you should give the team full credit for achieving the car's current goals and stop knocking it. We'd all like to see the car's sales increase, and as one of the very few who has actually experienced the Gen V on both road and track, I am truly baffled that it hasn't been a stronger seller. If Corvette and Porsche 911 owners weren't such a faithful group they could have sold out the Viper on Day 1.
pathoguy
Enthusiast
Clearly you are as passionate about this car as I, maybe more. I am not surprised at the poor sales and it may get worse,
no doubt and it is a worthy goal.......but is it consistant with selling vipers
and what about the other buyers like myself that are looking for different qualities?
no I don't just have to accept that and maybe others are not just accepting it either, contributing to the poor sales....if I spend $90k+ on a car, it will be the car that I want.....not necessarily the car that you want it to be. I love and enjoy my Gen 5 (drove it to work today), but I am not happy with the Dodge/SRT thinking and the single-minded racing focus that you describe.
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klamathpro
Viper Owner
Well, for starters, I think his rear end design was great. The curves don't look dated to me, more like modern timeless.
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It's like SRT set out to make the world's best pizza even better, and succeeded, then people complain that their pizza is not the greasy cheeseburger they claim they actually wanted. They then point out that the C7 is the best taco money can buy and that it's going to put the Viper's pizza business out to pasture. In other words - pure logic, unfiltered.
Most people spending $90K plus on a car have a pretty good idea of what they're getting into before they ever set foot into a dealership. With SRT constantly pointing at various road racing series that they were participating in with the Viper race car (never once did NHRA drag racing come up), I find it hard to believe that you had no clue what the Viper is all about or what SRT's design intentions were. After all, their design goals haven't really changed and there was never any plan to compromise its track performance and consistency just so it would post slightly better 1/4 mile numbers for the mag-racers that get confused when they have to brake and turn.
Thanx for saving me some typing....
I really like this design.
My only complaint with the rear of the Gen 5 is the exhaust doesn't exit out the back like a real car.
pathoguy
Enthusiast
I do not follow what SRT is doing regarding road racing etc, because I am not interested. I do not read car magazines either. I come from a Gen 3 and before that a Gen 2. so know something about viper ownership. The Gen 5 in comparison is spectacular from a street driving perspective. I am very satisfied with my purchase particularly at $20k below sticker. I am not happy with where the viper is heading however. At the end, I will keep this car for as long as I enjoy it while eyeing other brands (that BMW I8 looks interesting). If Dodge insists on following its present path, poor sales may continue and those like me that are not into racing nor viper fanatics, will be tempted elsewhere.
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The reality is that no car will be everything to everyone and some people are just brand loyal. Whether that makes you the most money or not is what the company has to decide. People buy Ferraris and Lambos for twice the money of the Viper with equal or less performance and don't seem to mind. Ferrari even admitted in the past that he used to fleece his customers to fund his racing hobby, but that didn't keep anyone from buying them. Maybe the Hellcat is SRT listening to all the people complaining that they thought the Viper needed to do better in the 1/4 mile, so they built a pure drag car as opposed to messing with the Viper since the Challenger hearkens back to the muscle car drag wars anyway. You can buy a new Viper and a Hellcat for ~$150k (may be lightly optioned or just good deals) and still have paid less than a new 458 or Lambo off the showroom floor.
You can't build one car that will rule every form of racing, there will always be tradeoffs. You can be a drag king and run 9 second quarters or a track monster and demolish lap times, but you'll never be the ruler of both because someone out there decided not to compromise and built his car purely for one purpose. Larry Lawson of Drag Week fame has a 6 second street legal Nova. Show me a Viper that will trump that time AND outpace an ACR or TA around Laguna Seca.
You can't build one car that will rule every form of racing, there will always be tradeoffs. You can be a drag king and run 9 second quarters or a track monster and demolish lap times, but you'll never be the ruler of both because someone out there decided not to compromise and built his car purely for one purpose. Larry Lawson of Drag Week fame has a 6 second street legal Nova. Show me a Viper that will trump that time AND outpace an ACR or TA around Laguna Seca.
Flying Viper
Enthusiast
Bruce, If SRT listens to you, sales next year will be in the low hundreds if that. BTW its not faith that keeps Corvette and Porsche owners from buying a Viper.
I along with many of my Viper friends (who do not post here) will say it again. I want a new redesigned sleek looking Viper. Not a look a like to my 96 and now my 06. Until then I will sit on the side lines and wait, like many other Viper owners are doing.
Agreed.
Dodge's recipe for the Viper isn't working....it's time for a change.
The thing is, they know this already.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
comments have me very confused. You are a Viper owner? You actually said the Viper should not have side exhausts? very confused.
Thanx for saving me some typing....
I really like this design.
My only complaint with the rear of the Gen 5 is the exhaust doesn't exit out the back like a real car.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
What path are you referring to? Where do you think the path changed other than a nicer interior? You bought the car. You are happy with it. Yet, are you complaining about something?
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Or, like many, can't afford one. Lets me a little bit honest here, a radical design would not have changed things. more HP would not have changed things. The car is actually fantastic, but the sales/marketing/dealer experience is/was terrible and difficult to overcome. That factored with no Auto or conv option severely limits upgrade buyers of Gen3's (biggest Viper audience) and the price is too steep for many. I will also say for their to be this many posts about a challenger in regards to a Viper clearly points out a confusion on the identity of buyers. If you are confused which to get, a challenger or a Viper, you probably were not in the market anyways.
All Bruce is stating is where the car is great. Bruce owns one so he knows. He is just saying, it you want a drag car, there are options. If you want a poser car, there are options. The Viper is just not for you, but others do exist.
Truth be told, if you own a prior Viper, you actually owned a track car also. It was not a drag car or street racer. I guess you are saying you want a Viper to be something different than it ever was.
All Bruce is stating is where the car is great. Bruce owns one so he knows. He is just saying, it you want a drag car, there are options. If you want a poser car, there are options. The Viper is just not for you, but others do exist.
Truth be told, if you own a prior Viper, you actually owned a track car also. It was not a drag car or street racer. I guess you are saying you want a Viper to be something different than it ever was.
FLL-B/W-GTS
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Yes,a new car is produced that does it all...Drag Racer,Road Racer,Road Travel Cruiser and Luxury Car....It is a 991 Porsche 911 Turbo S with Pilot Sport Cup 2 Tires.......It does it all extremely well...Go drive one and it will relieve all your Viper drama...
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Well, you are consistent, I give you that. The car you describe is a great quality car, but does not do it all as you describe.
Unfortunately, losing to a Camaro on the track was a serious blow to what you are saying in one category.
Unfortunately, losing to a Camaro on the track was a serious blow to what you are saying in one category.
FLL-B/W-GTS
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By the way,it has only been since the Gen.5 performed so bad at the drag strip/street,that people started about all the road racing stuff.Me and my friends have drag raced Vipers for 15 and they dominated everything at the strip pre the Gen 5...
Just Excuses now...
Only Nine Ball has mastered the Gen.5,and he is one serious drag racer/shifter...Just one guy....
Just Excuses now...
Only Nine Ball has mastered the Gen.5,and he is one serious drag racer/shifter...Just one guy....
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