Changing Brake Fluid - Process questions

[95Viper]

1995 RT/10 - Rookie brake fluid changer
- Bought 2 pints (500ml each) of Motul 600 RBF for $9.95 each at a motorcycle shop in Michigan. I thought this was a good price. Reading the posts I hear that's the right quantity.
- Bought Speedbleeder pressure bleeder per posts
- Bought Viper Dodge manual
a) Does car have to be jacked up and tires removed?
b) Manual says use two special Mopar parts that screw on master cylinder. This looks like a good idea but will it work with Speedbleeder?
c) Why does manual say put tube in jar partially filled with clean brake fluid? I'm pushing fluid into the jar which will fill it with fluid, why waste fluid by filling it first?
d) Why bleed front calipers in-out-in? Why in twice?
d) Manual says bleed 4 to 8 ounces per caliper. If I go with 6 ounces and do front in-out-in that's 8 times 6 ounces = 48 ounces. 2 pints won't cut it...I need 3 pints...or maybe even 4?? Yikes!

 

[Bad_Byte]

Speedbleeder - my kinda tool, loosen 'em up and pump 'em

 

[95Viper]

Oops, I might have used the wrong word. I didn't buy speedbleeders...I bought a pressure pump. It's a little tank you put the fluid in and pump it up. It seemed to get good reviews in the posts. I liked the idea of not needing to pump and fill...pump and fill.

 

[Tomer]

What do you mean by bleed calipers in-out-in?

Tomer

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tomer:
What do you mean by bleed calipers in-out-in?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Front calipers have two bleeder valves. A valve on the inner side of the rotor and an valve on the outer side of the rotor.

Rear calipers only have one valve.

 

[Fast Viper Dan]

If I remember correctly there are two bleeder points on the front calipers. Bleed the out side then the inside and then the outside again.
While your in there, grease the suspension grease fittings with a grease marked for ball joints etc.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

I was always of the 2-man pump the pedal bleed the caliper school... however, if you must do it by yourself, this is not an option.

I have one of those delux pistol grip vacuum pumps and I did my 2000 by vacuuming the calipers and all I can say is that I got an absolutely state-of-the-art rock solid pedal!

So, I'm perfectly happy with the vacuum bleeder.

Regarding pressure bleeding:

I think the key is that when you pump the pedal, you have perhaps 1000 psi in the system and when you crack the bleeder, the resulting flow will drag air bubbles with it.

If the pressure bleeder is the type that has a reservoir of brake fluid, this would be very good because you could crack the bleeder and pump 8 oz thru the system continuously since you do not have to stop to refil the master cylinder reservoir. The continuous flow would slowly drag air bubles that were trapped even in the lines.

However, this style of pressure bleeder which was used in the 60's may be inappropriate for the newer masters because of the plastic reservoirs - they can't accept any substantial pressurization.

Tom

PS. I've even had good luck puting the tube in the bottle at the bleeder. But I haven't done this since I got the vacuum pump.

 

[GTS Dean]

a) Yes - period.
b) Not necessary to use the factory stuff.
c) That's what they all say - mainly to make sure you don't **** any air back into the caliper before the bleeder is closed. I don't do it, but until you get the hang of it yourself, better follow instructions.
d) Because it's good practice. Do it.
e) That's excessive. When you get good at it, you can completely flush a stock system with 1 pt. of fluid. 2 pints is plenty.

1) Work from the farthest to the nearest caliper to the master cylinder. RR, LR, RF, LF.
2) Don't let the master cylinder reservoir run empty - EVER! Check the level after every caliper is done.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Play it safe with another bottle or two.

Remove the wheels.

**** out the old fluid from the reservior and fill with new.

Put the speedbleeders to use.

Curious, are you going to track the car? If not, then there's no need for Motul.

 

[95Viper]

Chuck, The front have two valves each and they specifically say bleed in, then out, then in again. I haven't had someone logically explain why this is true. You know, something like air gets trapped when you do the 'out' so you should do the 'in' again to ensure all is removed.

Regarding the other posts...this a pressure tank that you fill with up to 2 quarts of fluid, attach to reservoir, pump up (only 10-20 lbs) and when you crack the valves it pushes fluid through the system. No pumping of pedal which can cause other issues.

Pretty sweet system for only $50 but I wonder if anyone has experiences with it.

 

[Janni]

OK, I'll take a shot at the front caliper inner-outer-inner method. Oftentimes, after completely bleeding the inner (lots of fluid), then the outer (less fluid), we have seen some more discolored fluid pushed back so that the second inner bleed shows discolored fluid (just a little bit of fluid). It would appear that the bleed process may trap some old fluid and the second inner bleed is to get all the old stuff completely out.

We use the "Speed bleeder" replacement bleed screws that allow you to not have to close the valve after depressing the pedal each time - there is a check valve inside that does not allow fluid or air to be drawn back into the system when the pedal goes up. So, I am afraid I cannot help with other bleed method.

We've used a pressure thing before, but it was one that pressurized the reservoir and forced fluid through - there was no way to add fluid without disconnecting the thing and refilling....

 

[95Viper]

Thanks Janni...that does make sense of the in-out-in.

The pressure bleeder I bought pressurizes the reservior also but it has a tank that hold 2 quarts so it doesn't have to be refilled. Your tips will really help!

 

[Russ M]

You will definatly need more bottle of fluid to make sure that all you have is motul in the system.

 

[Frank Parise]

Craig, I have been using the pressure bleeding system you are talking about for the last 4 years. It's very reliable and saves major time once you get the routine down. At track events it is a real time saver, especially if you like to bleed your system often. I usually bleed at the end of each track day.

You will need the "special tools" referred to in the service manual. It's really not a tool, but a 4-piece fitting that forms an air-tight fitting to the top of the fluid reservoir on your brake master cylinder. It is designed to receive fluid from your pressurized tank via a quick disconnect fitting. This is a very slick setup!

I would suggest that you pump up your tank to 15 PSI..this is plenty pressure to push your fluid out the bleeder screws at a reasonably manageable flow rate.

One of the beauties of the system is that does not require the assistance of another individual, plus you get to see the condition of your own fluid as you bleed it yourself.

Any questions, feel free to e-mail me.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

...just be sure you don't have any kind of leak at the master when you use the pressure bleeder w/reservoir tank...