Check Engine Light - Belanger & Re-flashed ECU

[witz323]

To start the summer I added the full belanger exhaust/cat/header package and it resulted in frying an 02 sensor which caused my engine light to come on and make it difficult to engage in reverse gear. I thought I had the problem solved when I had the ECU re-flashed a few weeks ago, but it's still not fixed. The re-flash was supposed to ignore the 02 sensor downstream of the cat, but i put in a brand new 02 sensor anyway so I wouldn't get the check engine light. After 1 week of having the re-flashed computer in, my light came on and reverse gear is once again a bI$%& to engage. Dealer has had the car for a couple of days and they are perplexed becuase it's telling them the 02 sensor (that i replaced) is bad. That is odd b/c the ECU shouldn't even be looking for it, and it's brand new! Any thoughts on this matter??? Snake-Oil in Madison, WI did the re-flash, and they have been working with my dealer, but I thought I'd put it out there to the forum to see if anyone might have any insight.

 

[Bandit3]

Sean Roe has sims that defeat the ECU from looking at the downstream 02's. I have the Bellanger system also and no CEL with these sims. Can someone give the number for Sean for this fella?

 

[Bandit3]

PS--change your avatar to "owner" and join the VCA. These guys/gals are a big help.

 

[SNKEBIT]

To start the summer I added the full belanger exhaust/cat/header package and it resulted in frying an 02 sensor which caused my engine light to come on and make it difficult to engage in reverse gear. I thought I had the problem solved when I had the ECU re-flashed a few weeks ago, but it's still not fixed. The re-flash was supposed to ignore the 02 sensor downstream of the cat, but i put in a brand new 02 sensor anyway so I wouldn't get the check engine light. After 1 week of having the re-flashed computer in, my light came on and reverse gear is once again a bI$%& to engage. Dealer has had the car for a couple of days and they are perplexed becuase it's telling them the 02 sensor (that i replaced) is bad. That is odd b/c the ECU shouldn't even be looking for it, and it's brand new! Any thoughts on this matter??? Snake-Oil in Madison, WI did the re-flash, and they have been working with my dealer, but I thought I'd put it out there to the forum to see if anyone might have any insight.

The rear O2's are chaffing and grounding out the computer and blowing a fuse. Bellanger doesn't tell ya his system has a couple quirks. And he won't stand behind his product either. (I know the craps gonna come now)
You can put in all the O2's ya want and change a bunch of puters but it won't stop the frayed wires and grounding problem.
Pull the sills off, I will bet the new O2's are junk.
You need simms.
Fixed this problem many times.

 

[witz323]

does anyone know where I can get an 02 sim???

 

[SNKEBIT]

does anyone know where I can get an 02 sim???

you need 2

Roe racing

 

[witz323]

ok, got it. $160/pair from Roe. Thanks so much for the help!

 

[Coloviper]

Over 2,500 miles (2 years) on my full Bellanger Exhuast system (Headers, Hi-Flo CATS, exhaust cat-back with no cross over. Only one problem after 1,500 miles (a CEL) with a passenger side O2 sensor wire burning out on the header and grounding out. Wiring and O2 sensor replaced under warranty by Dodge and wiring rerouted with new heat shielding. 1,000 miles since without a single problem. No CEL or problems since. Would not have had a problem in the first place if wiring routing handled properly the first time.

You guys with SIMS and all these other so called problems are just putting band-aids on top of band-aids over the real problems you are having with the cars. Fix the real problems and then the others go away. The full Bellanger system is one of the highest quality systems I have ever put on any of my cars to date. My opinion, but bashing a quality supplier and dedicated vendor as Bellanger has been is crazy.

 

[TrapperJ]

Just to icrease my knowledge. What are sims? How do they function? John

 

[witz323]

To Coloviper,

Do you have any idea how/where the wiring was re-routed? I'd like to speak to my dealer about this. Also, what is the NEW heat shield? Where can I or the dealer get that from? This might be a better alternative than going the simulator route.

 

[vincy]

The rear O2's are chaffing and grounding out the computer and blowing a fuse. Bellanger doesn't tell ya his system has a couple quirks. And he won't stand behind his product either. (I know the craps gonna come now)
You can put in all the O2's ya want and change a bunch of puters but it won't stop the frayed wires and grounding problem.
Pull the sills off, I will bet the new O2's are junk.
You need simms.
Fixed this problem many times.

What fuse is blown? I'm blowing fuses with headers and the Mopar computer.

 

[Coloviper]

Unfortunately, Dodge in it's infinite wizdom, shut down my local Burt Dodge dealership in the hatchet stage this year. Glenn was the Viper tech and he is working at Burt Chevrolet in Parker, Colorado now. Just call the Chevy dealership and ask for Glenn. He can fill you in on what he did. Tell him it was on Rick D's 06' Viper Coupe with Silver Stripes, full Bellanger Exhuast system. He will remember.

The routing is very good, as I can barely see the wires at all now. Heat Shield is just new heat tape.

 

[SNKEBIT]

What fuse is blown? I'm blowing fuses with headers and the Mopar computer.

I don't remember exactly what fuse. Look in the fuse holder under the hood, it's in there. Fuse blows for reverse lockout solenoid.

And for coloviper, you had a tech that sneaked that in under warranty through dodge. Technically, you stole from dodge. If the header manufacturer would say his system "has some minor issues that are easily fixed" then there wouldn't be a problem.
Just stating facts. Many people have had this problem and he hasn't done anything to his system to remedy it.
btw I'm not bashing, just giving info.

 

[SNKEBIT]

What fuse is blown? I'm blowing fuses with headers and the Mopar computer.

Better check wiring around the header area too, some are pretty close.

 

[witz323]

Ok, this may seem like a dumb question, but I just thought of it. If my newly reprogrammed ECU isn't even supposed to be looking at those o2 sensors, why is giving the code in the first place? The dodge dealer (and the ECU programmer) conviced me that by adding a new 02 sensor would be a gurantee for the computer to not throw a code. Guess i'm still a little confused.

 

[Shandon]

Do a search on here and you will find write ups I have done on the issue. Very simple fix by re-routing the wires to your 02 sensors. Anyway the reason you are still throwing a code is because your wires melted or scuffed somwhere and they blow the reverse selenoid (fuse blows and reverse takes hulk strength to back up). I had the same thing happen even after I had my ecu reflashed by DC Performance. There is a very simple way to run the wires that will keep them from melting or chaffing. You can put two new 02's in and rerun them correctly tie them up and this issue will be a thing of the past for you. PM me for a phone number and more info. Your dealer wont have a clue what to do I guarantee it! Been down this road.....

 

[Shandon]

PS. I believe the fuse is the 15amp blue one closest to the headers (engine) in the middle of the fuse box

 

[SNKEBIT]

Ok, this may seem like a dumb question, but I just thought of it. If my newly reprogrammed ECU isn't even supposed to be looking at those o2 sensors, why is giving the code in the first place? The dodge dealer (and the ECU programmer) conviced me that by adding a new 02 sensor would be a gurantee for the computer to not throw a code. Guess i'm still a little confused.

The O2 sensors use the same ground as the reverse solenoid.

 

[witz323]

Just spoke with the dealer about the issue, and it appears as though the sensors are fine and so are wires. He mentioned that the passenger side wires are so far from the headers that he doesn't see how it could be an issue. They are going to speak with the engineers at snake-oil this afternoon. They seem to think it might be an issue with the reverse lockout. Since they are both on the same solenoid it makes it a little more difficult to diagnose quickly.

 

[JonB]

I agree 100% with Colo below. I wish real NAMES were used so we could see if you are customers. We'd like to help, please call. We have 2 fix options for the CELs that are annoying and intermittant mostly on 08, some on 09. The most obvious fix is the one the SRT Engineers recommend: The MoPar S1 PCM. In Stock

PS. Belanger is VERY supportive of tech issues, to say otherwise is simply NOT TRUE.

Over 2,500 miles (2 years) on my full Bellanger Exhuast system (Headers, Hi-Flo CATS, exhaust cat-back with no cross over. Only one problem after 1,500 miles (a CEL) with a passenger side O2 sensor wire burning out on the header and grounding out. Wiring and O2 sensor replaced under warranty by Dodge and wiring rerouted with new heat shielding. 1,000 miles since without a single problem. No CEL or problems since. Would not have had a problem in the first place if wiring routing handled properly the first time.

You guys with SIMS and all these other so called problems are just putting band-aids on top of band-aids over the real problems you are having with the cars. Fix the real problems and then the others go away. The full Bellanger system is one of the highest quality systems I have ever put on any of my cars to date. My opinion, but bashing a quality supplier and dedicated vendor as Bellanger has been is crazy.

 

[witz323]

Mine is an '04, and I'm not interested in buying a new ECU. I just paid over $1,500 to have mine re-flashed which was supposed to solve this problem along with a handful of other great benefits. I really hope my dealer and snake-oil can fix this easily.

 

[JonB]

Mine is an '04, and I'm not interested in buying a new ECU. I just paid over $1,500 to have mine re-flashed which was supposed to solve this problem along with a handful of other great benefits. I really hope my dealer and snake-oil can fix this easily.

OOOPS the year was not in yur post and i ASSumed. Didnt say your year or State... The $145pr simulators can be a problem if you have plug-in emissions testing in yur State....and as ColoViper said, sims are rose-colored-glasses. Why would you want to defeat valuable diagnostics when insulating the harness is the cheap fix? Depending on your vendor, maybe even free.......

 

[witz323]

Even though I don't have to pass emissions w this vehicle (due to where it's registered) I would like to figure out what the heck the root problem is and fix it. However, the dealer doesn't think the wires have any issues along with the sensor. That's what I don't understand. Shouldn't there be an easy way to test that and be 100% sure?

For the record it's an '04 in Wisconsin

 

[Art 138]

Mine is an '04, and I'm not interested in buying a new ECU. I just paid over $1,500 to have mine re-flashed which was supposed to solve this problem along with a handful of other great benefits. I really hope my dealer and snake-oil can fix this easily.

Wow, the MOPAR PCU with install was 1,100 for my car, but I see your frustration after having paid that much and the system still throwing codes.

As with the Belangers,I spoke to Lou Belanger on two ocassions about questions I had on the system. He availed himself and actually spent more time than expected and seemed eager to discuss some of my concerns. For example, when we discussed the merits of using "Mopar Crush OEM header gaskets" vs the supplied ones he was open to the idea that some installers preferred them. I have spoken to our Viper tech who has done a considerable amount of these installs with positive results. ....

 

[witz323]

Went to the dealer last night and replaced the fuse, and removed the fuse block that the 02 sensors run to. Drove the car and after 2 miles the check engine light came on again. We believe it must be an issue with some of the wires either being burnt or chaffed, or it's something with the reverse solenoid. I'm going to contact a few different people (shandon and perhaps Glenn @ Burt Chevrolet) to get a better understanding of where the 02 wires should be re-routed to. Thanks for the help, I will keep you posted.

 

[SNKEBIT]

Went to the dealer last night and replaced the fuse, and removed the fuse block that the 02 sensors run to. Drove the car and after 2 miles the check engine light came on again. We believe it must be an issue with some of the wires either being burnt or chaffed, or it's something with the reverse solenoid. I'm going to contact a few different people (shandon and perhaps Glenn @ Burt Chevrolet) to get a better understanding of where the 02 wires should be re-routed to. Thanks for the help, I will keep you posted.

Have you checked under the sills?

 

[ViperGeorge]

Mine is an '04, and I'm not interested in buying a new ECU. I just paid over $1,500 to have mine re-flashed which was supposed to solve this problem along with a handful of other great benefits. I really hope my dealer and snake-oil can fix this easily.

Wow is that a correct price? I had my 06 computer re-flashed by DC Performance for $600. Heck they'll sell you a new PCM with re-flash for $900.

 

[Shandon]

Went to the dealer last night and replaced the fuse, and removed the fuse block that the 02 sensors run to. Drove the car and after 2 miles the check engine light came on again. We believe it must be an issue with some of the wires either being burnt or chaffed, or it's something with the reverse solenoid. I'm going to contact a few different people (shandon and perhaps Glenn @ Burt Chevrolet) to get a better understanding of where the 02 wires should be re-routed to. Thanks for the help, I will keep you posted.

Shoot me a PM and you can call me. Be happy to help and walk you through it. Lou Balanger was a great help at least for me? There is a way to run the wires and insulate them. I track my car when I can and the heat and abuse my wires see is far more than any street driving you can do. I found that my check engine light and reverse selenoid would flip on/blow fuse when I had the car up to temp and/or gave it gas hard. Anyway call me and Ill get you fixed up.

 

[VIPER R]

Is there a reason this routing of O2 harness is a secret? Can anyone give a simple description or diagram.

 

[SNKEBIT]

Is there a reason this routing of O2 harness is a secret? Can anyone give a simple description or diagram.

The main problem I see here is not so much the harness getting melted, it's that the O2 sensors stick straight out and hit the inside of the side sills. Then the wires on the end of the O2 get pinched and ground out, blowing fuse.
I actually open up the wire looms and reroute the wires that are anywhere near the exhaust.
As far as the end of the O2 itself rubbing on the inside of the heat shielding in the sill, there's only one answer. They have to be moved.
Some cars this doesn't bother on, alot do.

Hope this clears up a few things.