Chrysler will limit stores selling SRT Viper

[Coloviper]

I believe the very simply fix on the regulators is that SRT pay for the new parts for the regulators and the owners pay for the labor to install them. On our Porsche Cayenne Turbos (who do have these quirks too), even outside of warranty, if we are relatively low miles (under the factory base warranty mileage and outside of however many years base factory warrantry was), Porsche would still replace known problem areas by resolving design flaws in this manner. Seems fair as the owner just wants it fixed and the manufacturer is helping in a real way. Porsche has replaced the front suspension bushings, the over-manifold coolant pipes, the coil packs and the driveshaft "pucks" this way and that was even outside of warranty period as long as we met the criteria above. We paid for labor and they paid for replacement of those defective parts. If still under warranty, they are replaced in full parts and labor for the defective part and situation.


I believe a gesture like this would be well received by current Viper owners and be a huge jump in confidence to showing SRT's commitment to the owners and the cars as best and fairly as possible.

Just food for thought if Ralph and company is listening. The good thing is there are not that many big design flaw issues like this with the Viper and everyone knows the big ones that are. Take care of those and I beleive the confidence that things have and are goign to change for the better will be there. Just my opinion!

 

[GTS Bruce]

Again. License fee or not? Personaly if I were a dealer and was told to come up with 100K for the priviledge even though I had certifeid Viper techs. I would say shove it along with the the separate Fiat showroom and future Alfa we told you to shove.Not enough money in it to break even unless very high volume. When a dealer goes for this nonsense the next thing will be a license necessary to sell Jeep,any SRT..... GTS Bruce

 

[ViperTony]

but like many privileges in life it will come with a cost ( sorry Kala , but I have no idea where your 100K idea came from , but believe that to be completely erroneous ). The cost will be a contract, a covenant with SRT to train service and sales personnel to the high level you as a consumer desire with a car like the Viper.
Respectfully Submitted,
Bill Pemberton

Bill, thanks for responding. As I understand it, the rumor about dealers being asked to pay up a $100K fee is b.s. Correct? It seems to me based on your explanation that the added expense to dealers is the training of highly qualified staff and perhaps the tools and equipment that goes with servicing Vipers. If that's the case, then how is this different then when the Viper originally came out and dealerships needed to train Viper Tech and purchase Viper-specific tools?

 

[I Bin Therbefor]

Jon,

Keep in mind the problem existed when you purchased your car and the folks in charge actually understand your concern, and that is a segment of what they are addressing. There will likely be a Dealer in your area that will be solicited , but they will be required to maintain new standards, when virtually none have been in existence. I have no doubt that the Metro areas will find Dealers who want to sell the new Viper, but also are excited to know they will be an Elite Dealer for a very special car. Just like Corporate , there is a distinct advantage in many Franchise's eyes to say they are an SRT/Viper Dealer. Keep the faith and realize that this change was one some Dealers have been pushing for years and years, and Viper owners have requested too. SRT is looking into areas where there has been a distinct lack of Viper service and sales.

There are so few actual Viper Techs in the US, that an intensive training program is being instituted and only the cream of the crop are going to be allowed to be certified. In other words , instead of just scrambling and filling a void, SRT is demanding excellence and is taking things to heart they know needed changed/upgraded. The Techs that will be working on the new Viper, as well as the old , will be able to stand tall , and the designation as a SRT trained Viper Technician will be a badge of importance -- few are even being allowed to take this training. One must have already attained a high degree of profiency to even be elected to take this extensive course of specialized instruction.

Hope this helps you and others who may have concerns, but the system was broken and we now have management who is forging ahead, no longer the days of Cerberus and others where their heads were buried in the sand.

Bill,

What requires such extensive training?

Jay Leno inferred you could repair a Viper V-10 with a shedge hammer.

There is no unique technology in the Viper V-10 with the exception of the cam shaft. For the rest, you have a push rod V-10 with no more computer requirements than on a whole lot of cars already in the field. The same holds for the rest of the car, nothing electronic that is not already in the field. Tuned to Viper requirements, yes, but supplied by the same first tier suppliers as others use.

The body repair is a different story as there isn't a whole lot of experience out there with that particular material BUT we're talking about technicians not body people.

IMHO, the reason to limit Viper dealers has to do with the so called "soft" side of the equation not the technical side. People like you are TRUSTWORTHY. WORTHY OF TRUST. I'm sorry to say that many dealers are not worthy of trust. If the investment required of a dealer is a sign of commitment, good. But the real measure of a dealer is a combination of commitment, technical competence and character. Every step of the ownership experience from purchase to ultimate disposal must reflect those three (3) items. People like you make the Viper look and and the Viper makes people like you look good. It's a team effort all the way. That includes the great team members from SRT and Chrysler. As for the other type of dealer, I'm sure if Dante were alive, he'd reserve a special place in hell for them in his book.

 

[3whitevipers]

emericr--
I'd be happy to have you visit. I tried to send you a PM buy I couldn't get it to work--maybe because you are an "Enthusiast". Not sure how to contact one another as I'm sure neither of us wants to give phone#'s or addresses over a public forum.---Dave

 

[swexlin]

Bill,

What requires such extensive training?

Jay Leno inferred you could repair a Viper V-10 with a shedge hammer.

There is no unique technology in the Viper V-10 with the exception of the cam shaft. For the rest, you have a push rod V-10 with no more computer requirements than on a whole lot of cars already in the field. The same holds for the rest of the car, nothing electronic that is not already in the field. Tuned to Viper requirements, yes, but supplied by the same first tier suppliers as others use.

The body repair is a different story as there isn't a whole lot of experience out there with that particular material BUT we're talking about technicians not body people.

IMHO, the reason to limit Viper dealers has to do with the so called "soft" side of the equation not the technical side. People like you are TRUSTWORTHY. WORTHY OF TRUST. I'm sorry to say that many dealers are not worthy of trust. If the investment required of a dealer is a sign of commitment, good. But the real measure of a dealer is a combination of commitment, technical competence and character. Every step of the ownership experience from purchase to ultimate disposal must reflect those three (3) items. People like you make the Viper look and and the Viper makes people like you look good. It's a team effort all the way. That includes the great team members from SRT and Chrysler. As for the other type of dealer, I'm sure if Dante were alive, he'd reserve a special place in hell for them in his book.

This. As Mopar Steve said, many people on this board service their own cars, and they aren't even professional mechanics, let alone Viper techs. Most of the "tech" in this car is already in use across the current SRT line, and in many cars in general. My own dealer doesn't have a dedicated Viper tech anymore, and they do just fine with my car.

Just my $0.02.

 

[PDCjonny]

Once again the thread is veering off into factory warranty work versus out of warranty servicing.
When you buy a new car, part of the MSRP purchase price is to cover warranty issues that may arise.
My concern and obviously many others is what good is it when the nearest "All-star" dealer is 300+ miles away.

 

[Kala]

the rumor about dealers being asked to pay up a $100K fee is b.s. Correct?

The BS Rumor? This isn't something I made up Tony.

There's a lot of smoke out there... there has to be a fire somewhere nearby...

Actually, I was first told about this license fee from a very well respected Viper tech... At the time, he said there would be a SRT Viper lic fee. He heard it was going to be $500k
That was about the time when Ralph's interview came out saying it would be difficult for dealers to carry the Gen V Viper...

Going the next step... When we made an inquiry here locally... I was told there was a $100k Lic fee... I felt some sense of relief for a moment that the fee was only $100k... Maybe more dealers would join in... Then thinking about it... How many Vipers would a dealer have to sell to make that back... Then who is going to pay for that in the end? Viper owners new and old...

"Bottom line" is where it's at for dealers especially post BK... Most seem to prefer fleet sales over Viper sales. I want a local Viper dealer... So I tried for a couple of days to find the stats that were given out during the Saturday night dinner at VOI9... It was filled with stats from Dodge about Viper owners promoting the brand and using Dodge products in their businesses... I couldn't find it, even contacted my Zone Directors to see if they had the info... They said if I found it pass it on to them... Maybe someone from the front office can produce this info?

I think that priceless info could go a long way right now helping dealers understand why they should even bother with all these upgrades to sell 1 or 2 low production Vipers from their dealership. The Gen V may be a halo car for us... For most dealers... ummmm not so much...

Let's look at this in another light... Paul Hawker got it right in this thread... It's time to support your local dealer... period...Want a future for Viper in your area? Organize and support your local dealer. Regardless of the Lic fee issue... I seriously doubt any dealer is going to put the time and effort into this new breed Viper only to sell one or two cars.

 

[01sapphirebob]

This is an interesting thread , but the realities are there are very few actual Viper Techs in the US, so what is everyone doing now? The truth is many Dealerships don't even have Viper Techs now, as training has been virtually non-existent for years. Surprisingly, to many of you , a couple of Dealers began complaining about this 6-7 years ago, because the feeling was Dealers were selling Vipers with no accountability , no passion, and no committment. Folks would buy a Viper and they could not find a Tech to do something as basic as changing the oil. Why , you might ask , was this possible, and yet the answer is simple, Chrysler did not require it. So you had Dealerships who made ludicrous claims, and they could walk away anytime if the things changed ( which they did) as they had nothing invested. In today's society they were just like so many others who felt they were entitled because they had a sign out front. The Dealers who understood your passion and desire stayed committed and even some others joined in the passion, but the bulk went on their merry way, doing nothing because they were not required too. The SRT Marketing Team, Ralph , and others are now in charge and the past is just that, so blame needs to be put aside and one must approach the glass and realize it is not only full , but overflowing. They see your demands, they want accountability, they want true committment that only a few have shown in the past, but they are not going to open the flood gates like in the past to let just anyone sell the Snake -- that was the entire crux of the problem. Know that SRT wants Dealers who understand they will need to treat a Viper customer with respect, and that they will need a trained staff --this will extend to Sales also.

The end result, is we as Viper owners will get what we used to have a Decade ago, but even better. Select Dealers all over the Country that want to sell Vipers and realize it is a privilege to do so, but like many privileges in life it will come with a cost ( sorry Kala , but I have no idea where your 100K idea came from , but believe that to be completely erroneous ). The cost will be a contract, a covenant with SRT to train service and sales personnel to the high level you as a consumer desire with a car like the Viper. There is no reason we should walk down the path expecting less because this vehicle is made in the US, instead we should expect the same treatment , expertise,etc. as any exotic or semi exotic car. This is the standard bearer for Chrysler Corporation and there are now folks in charge who respect the machine, will bring honor back to the page, and expect Dealers to do the same. Entitlement is over, as it should be, and the concerns so many of you have voiced over the past years are being addressed. Be positive, be optimistic , be thankful, someone has been listening and is doing what we all know is right!

Respectfully Submitted,
Bill Pemberton

The BS Rumor? This isn't something I made up Tony.

There's a lot of smoke out there... there has to be a fire somewhere nearby...

Actually, I was first told about this license fee from a very well respected Viper tech... At the time, he said there would be a SRT Viper lic fee. He heard it was going to be $500k
That was about the time when Ralph's interview came out saying it would be difficult for dealers to carry the Gen V Viper...

Going the next step... When we made an inquiry here locally... I was told there was a $100k Lic fee... I felt some sense of relief for a moment that the fee was only $100k... Maybe more dealers would join in... Then thinking about it... How many Vipers would a dealer have to sell to make that back... Then who is going to pay for that in the end? Viper owners new and old...

"Bottom line" is where it's at for dealers especially post BK... Most seem to prefer fleet sales over Viper sales. I want a local Viper dealer... So I tried for a couple of days to find the stats that were given out during the Saturday night dinner at VOI9... It was filled with stats from Dodge about Viper owners promoting the brand and using Dodge products in their businesses... I couldn't find it, even contacted my Zone Directors to see if they had the info... They said if I found it pass it on to them... Maybe someone from the front office can produce this info?

I think that priceless info could go a long way right now helping dealers understand why they should even bother with all these upgrades to sell 1 or 2 low production Vipers from their dealership. The Gen V may be a halo car for us... For most dealers... ummmm not so much...

Let's look at this in another light... Paul Hawker got it right in this thread... It's time to support your local dealer... period...Want a future for Viper in your area? Organize and support your local dealer. Regardless of the Lic fee issue... I seriously doubt any dealer is going to put the time and effort into this new breed Viper only to sell one or two cars.

Not trying to sound rude to anyone but did anybody read what Bill said. No 100k fee. ALready in the situation everyone is taking about as to where we can get our cars worked on when they are out of warranty. Is it gonna cost dealers to carry the GEN V. Probably....but I would agree with the scenario as mentioned above....cost of training (probably someone already on staff that is very car savvy which is how I believe the program got started back in '92) and of course the cost of specialized tools to work on the Viper. WHo knows what the tools and training will cost but I can't imagine it's 100k.

I have also read in this thread a few people mention that this 100k is gonna get taken out on us (the buyer) for the dealership to have the "privilege" of selling the Viper. Since when is this a new idea. This already happens in ANYTHING you buy as a consumer. Someone has to pay for the businesses rent, electric, water, labor, etc. So this is not a new concept.

I personally like the idea of it being a little tougher for dealerships to carry the Viper. I remember a club member telling me one time about one of the Viper he bought....He was driving along some country back roads and stumbled across a Dodge dealership. The only reason he ended up stopping was he had noticed in a grass field behind the dealership where the dealership stored its cars sat a '01 Sapphire w/Silver GTS. covered in mud and dirt and whatever else. He went into the dealership and asked the owner about the car and how much he was willing to sell it for. The owner just wanted to be rid of the car as he had no idea what it was or how to marked it so he ended up selling it below dealer invoice just to be rid of it. Now I don't know about you guys but I want a dealership that "gives a damn" about the car itself and wants to put in some effort to be able to sell the car.

JMHO.

 

[Kala]

Yes, I read Bill's post... I always read Bills posts, and MarkJ's posts for that matter always good info.

In the part where Bill stated ( sorry Kala , but I have no idea where your 100K idea came from , but believe that to be completely erroneous ).

Bill said he "Believes" its erroneous...

As far as the fee goes, my local dealer says otherwise. A respected west coast Viper Tech I know says otherwise.

The two sources I am talking about don't know each other.

 

[Newport Viper]

Well I live in SoCal so I will assume there will be 5-10 dealers in the region but, in some regions I would be very turned off with having to take a car 100+++ miles to get service..... I wouldn't buy it.

Sounds like SRT is shooting itself in the foot before this car even gets off the ground.... sigh....

 

[redtanrt10]

Kala, I've never seen a manufacturer (regardless of franchise) require a franchise fee and I've been in this business a long time. If Chrysler was requiring a franchise fee for Viper, it would have been reported in Automotive News (where this thread/article came from) and the dealers would go balastic! As Bill mentions, they can ask the dealers to meet certain requirements that carry high price tags, but there is never a franchise fee.

I'm friends with and do consulting for a large dealer group. Last fall they got awarded the McLaren store in Beverly Hills. They were very happy they got the franchise but told me some of the things they had to do to get it, stuff that doesn't make sense and costs them money. In the end it was their business decision to play or pass and after looking at all the variables they said the math works. (If Chrysler could charge $100K for a Viper franchise, McLaren could charge a lot more!)

I'm sure that you heard it from a couple of folks as you wrote. I just have to say their misinformed. Maybe in each case it will cost them $100K to be a SRT Viper dealer with commitment to selling floor space, dedicated sales and service personel, training, special tools, parts inventory requirments, etc. but no one is going to write a $100K check to Chrysler for franchsie fee's.

If they have a letter from Chrysler that their requiring franchise fee's, tell them to send it to Automotive News, it will be very big industry news and the dealer community will be in uproar. Best wishes, hope to see you soon! Mike

 

[redtanrt10]

I get encouraged by Bill's and others comments that the viper dealer network will get stronger, sure hope so!

Paul and Carl posted about SoCal already, there isn't a dealer here that sells vipers or has a good service reputation.

I've been fortuate in my viper experience, got my first one in '96 and Eddie Martin and Bill Luke Dodge took great care of me on my '94 and '99 ACR. Moved to SoCal in '03 and back then Tuttle Click Dodge in Irvine had an off premise shop with a certified viper tech. For my Woodhouse '06 and my '08 Dan at DC took great care of me and could do warantee work. Hope Dan get's back up and running! We are fortunate to have Todd at A&C here but he can't do wartantee work.

Like many here I do maintence myself and enjoy working on my viper. But, a good viper tech can look you car over and see or recommend things I miss. In addition, Eddie got my '94's hood crack replaced under warantee as well as an Arrow rebuild. He did the frame recall correctly and got me the recalled ACR seat belts promptly. Dan spent a ton of time on my '08 fixing issues with the cam and crank sensors. Had I gone to the local dealer, who doesn't have the experience, it might have ended up in a lemon law and Chrysler would have had to buy my car back, costing them a lot of $$$'s .

If you look back at '08-'10 viper sales, were 90% sold by 5 or 6 dealers? The top two probably sold 2/3rds and both have a passion for racing vipers. I've written before that we should support these dealers, the ones who stayed loyal to the viper community and stepped up to buy the production, keep the factory and viper alive through the really tough times!

Maybe dealers like Bill and Ben/Bernie should be the US viper distributors and place satelite service centers in the top 5-10 markets?

Until the non-Viper dealers get passion or strong viper sales, I just don't see much changing. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[Coloviper]

Not to open up yet another can of worms or onslaught, but I would be perfectly happy to have Dodge award the SRT Viper Franchise to Ferrari of Denver and just keep it in the Fiat family. They have the new higher end showroom, already geared towards newer clientele and commitment to service is absolutely there. Yes it may cost a bit more per hour for service, but then again the new car is going to be well over $100K so you have to expect some cost to maintain (not everyone has access to extra garage space, lifts, etc. to perform even their own maintenance regardless of how easy it is).

Having suffered through the Dodge, Chrysler and Jeep crap dealership support out here for way, way too long, I would totally support this. There was hope in the past as there was one extremely good Dodge dealer here which had phenominal service, sales support, etc. and guess what? Dodge closed it two years after it opened with a brand new building, high end showroom, lot, huge service area, mopar performance parts, CERTIFIED VIPER TECH, etc. RIP Parker Dodge. It was privately held too so this support you dealer goes both ways boys and girls. It must be earned back.

Sorry it may be different in other areas, but in Colorado is has been a p*** poor hot potatoe for many years. At least with FOD, they could tomorrow, meet all criteria SRT Viper has asked for and they do have a passion for the Viper even though they don't sell them.

Truthfully, other than the Viper, I would never own another Dodge, Jeep or Chrysler product again. The only reason I even came over to Dodge, Chrysler and Jeep was because of the Viper, which I bought brand new out of state. It was a great purchase and great vehicle, NOT like other Chrysler products I became familiar with. It was so good, it lead to my purchase of a new 2007 Jeep SRT8 from a local Colorad dealer, which turned out to be the worst new vehicle I had ever owned and that dealership had the worst dealership support, service, etc. of any manufacturer I purchased new from.

Best thing they could do is seperate the SRT Viper from Chrysler. It really is it's own animal.

 

[Ev1E9]

Not to open up yet another can of worms or onslaught, but I would be perfectly happy to have Dodge award the SRT Viper Franchise to Ferrari of Denver and just keep it in the Fiat family. They have the new higher end showroom, already geared towards newer clientele and commitment to service is absolutely there. Yes it may cost a bit more per hour for service, but then again the new car is going to be well over $100K so you have to expect some cost to maintain (not everyone has access to extra garage space, lifts, etc. to perform even their own maintenance regardless of how easy it is).

Having suffered through the Dodge, Chrysler and Jeep crap dealership support out here for way, way too long, I would totally support this. There was hope in the past as there was one extremely good Dodge dealer here which had phenominal service, sales support, etc. and guess what? Dodge closed it two years after it opened with a brand new building, high end showroom, lot, huge service area, mopar performance parts, CERTIFIED VIPER TECH, etc. RIP Parker Dodge. It was privately held too so this support you dealer goes both ways boys and girls. It must be earned back.

Sorry it may be different in other areas, but in Colorado is has been a p*** poor hot potatoe for many years. At least with FOD, they could tomorrow, meet all criteria SRT Viper has asked for and they do have a passion for the Viper even though they don't sell them.

Truthfully, other than the Viper, I would never own another Dodge, Jeep or Chrysler product again. The only reason I even came over to Dodge, Chrysler and Jeep was because of the Viper, which I bought brand new out of state. It was a great purchase and great vehicle, NOT like other Chrysler products I became familiar with. It was so good, it lead to my purchase of a new 2007 Jeep SRT8 from a local Colorad dealer, which turned out to be the worst new vehicle I had ever owned and that dealership had the worst dealership support, service, etc. of any manufacturer I purchased new from.

Best thing they could do is seperate the SRT Viper from Chrysler. It really is it's own animal.

Colo,

I was thinking the same thing. Fiat, Chrysler and SRT want the Viper program to be successful. Perhaps entrusting Ferrari dealerships to maintain Vipers is an option. Plus, they are targeting a different clientele with the GTS. Perhaps the guy walking into a dealership seeking a used Ferrari may opt to buy a new Viper. In the past you may not find someone cross-shopping a Ferrari and a Viper. However, the Gen V Viper may change that dynamic.

 

[PDCjonny]

They're going to have to come up with some idea to have more localized SRT service, particularly in denser population areas like here on Long Island. Us Viper owners are used to buying from a dealer across the country as there are so few that have any stock to choose from but Mr. Porsche/Ferrari driver wants to walk into a dealer locally and order a car and get waited on hand and foot.

 

[MoparBoyy]

Colo,

I was thinking the same thing. Fiat, Chrysler and SRT want the Viper program to be successful. Perhaps entrusting Ferrari dealerships to maintain Vipers is an option. Plus, they are targeting a different clientele with the GTS. Perhaps the guy walking into a dealership seeking a used Ferrari may opt to buy a new Viper. In the past you may not find someone cross-shopping a Ferrari and a Viper. However, the Gen V Viper may change that dynamic.

NEVER happen. just saying.

So you want someone who has never touched Chrysler technology fixing your car? come on.

 

[Coloviper]

Where did I say the mechanic doing the work did not have experience working on Vipers? They would need to pony up cash to have an SRT certified tech on staff. This is part of new SRT requirements anyway. You would feel more comfortable with a mechanic who only works on Neons working on your Viper? No thanks?

This potential may not be for all areas of the country but for some like Colorado, it might be the only option. Never say never. If you only had a small taste of just how bad it really is out here, you would understand why something radical like this is needed.

It's not just Viper, Lambo owners have been orphaned too which is why they have now been picked up by Sil Terhar Ford who also owns the Jaguar, Aston Martin and Rolls Royce lines on the same building complex.

Out here something has to be done. I assume other areas of US and Canada have similar concerns.

 

[bcmarly]

I'm having a difficult time wrapping my head around why the Viper is a difficult car for a mechanic to service. Am I missing something here? Seriously, I want to know. The idea of Ferrari as an authorized dealer for the SRT Viper would surely solve the Denver area problem, but why would Ferrari want the franchise. FOD currently sells and services Ferrari, Maserati, Bentley and Lotus. The only weak brand in the line up is the Lotus, but it attracts buyers who might otherwise never set foot in a Ferrari show room. So in that respect it does drive traffic that otherwise would not exist and those Lotus owners are potential buyers for a used Ferrari, Maserati or Bentley.
One of the problems for the Viper is perception. It is a Chrysler product and that in and of itself doesn't command the respect or the wow factor of the aforementioned brands. The same applies to the ZR1/Z06, which in the end is a Chevy. Re-branding the Dodge Viper an SRT is a step in the right direction, but until the perception of Viper changes FOD really has no incentive to take on the SRT brand. I hope I'm wrong....By the way, the fact that the Viper is a Chrysler and the Z cars are made by Chevrolet doesn't bother me a bit. After all, both the Viper and the Z cars have kicked some serious butt over the years in both the ALMS and European race car series. The fact that SRT has entered the ALMS series will give it a lot of street cred and once it starts winning it will boost the brand.
What's key in this whole equation is the execution of the new Viper. If it truly lives up to expectations in terms of quality, fit and finish, it has the potential to erase the perception that has in part plagued the car from the beginning. I'm not concerned about the performance...that's a given. Time will tell, but it looks like Ralph has a very good game plan and keep in mind Fiat and Chrysler are gigantic corporations and they move about as quick as a battleship: there are no quick maneuvers. Ferrari operates more like a PT boat and their contribution to Fiats bottom line is meaningful. Although Ferrari answers to Fiat it has a lot of autonomy.
In the end Viper lives to see another day.

 

[swexlin]

I'm having a difficult time wrapping my head around why the Viper is a difficult car for a mechanic to service. Am I missing something here? Seriously, I want to know. The idea of Ferrari as an authorized dealer for the SRT Viper would surely solve the Denver area problem, but why would Ferrari want the franchise. FOD currently sells and services Ferrari, Maserati, Bentley and Lotus. The only weak brand in the line up is the Lotus, but it attracts buyers who might otherwise never set foot in a Ferrari show room. So in that respect it does drive traffic that otherwise would not exist and those Lotus owners are potential buyers for a used Ferrari, Maserati or Bentley.
One of the problems for the Viper is perception. It is a Chrysler product and that in and of itself doesn't command the respect or the wow factor of the aforementioned brands. The same applies to the ZR1/Z06, which in the end is a Chevy. Re-branding the Dodge Viper an SRT is a step in the right direction, but until the perception of Viper changes FOD really has no incentive to take on the SRT brand. I hope I'm wrong....By the way, the fact that the Viper is a Chrysler and the Z cars are made by Chevrolet doesn't bother me a bit. After all, both the Viper and the Z cars have kicked some serious butt over the years in both the ALMS and European race car series. The fact that SRT has entered the ALMS series will give it a lot of street cred and once it starts winning it will boost the brand.
What's key in this whole equation is the execution of the new Viper. If it truly lives up to expectations in terms of quality, fit and finish, it has the potential to erase the perception that has in part plagued the car from the beginning. I'm not concerned about the performance...that's a given. Time will tell, but it looks like Ralph has a very good game plan and keep in mind Fiat and Chrysler are gigantic corporations and they move about as quick as a battleship: there are no quick maneuvers. Ferrari operates more like a PT boat and their contribution to Fiats bottom line is meaningful. Although Ferrari answers to Fiat it has a lot of autonomy.
In the end Viper lives to see another day.

This is one of the most thoughtful and bests posts in this thread. Coloviper and ViperJon also have legitimate concerns, however.

 

[PDCjonny]

I'm having a difficult time wrapping my head around why the Viper is a difficult car for a mechanic to service. Am I missing something here? Seriously, I want to know. The idea of Ferrari as an authorized dealer for the SRT Viper would surely solve the Denver area problem, but why would Ferrari want the franchise. FOD currently sells and services Ferrari, Maserati, Bentley and Lotus. The only weak brand in the line up is the Lotus, but it attracts buyers who might otherwise never set foot in a Ferrari show room. So in that respect it does drive traffic that otherwise would not exist and those Lotus owners are potential buyers for a used Ferrari, Maserati or Bentley.
One of the problems for the Viper is perception. It is a Chrysler product and that in and of itself doesn't command the respect or the wow factor of the aforementioned brands. The same applies to the ZR1/Z06, which in the end is a Chevy. Re-branding the Dodge Viper an SRT is a step in the right direction, but until the perception of Viper changes FOD really has no incentive to take on the SRT brand. I hope I'm wrong....By the way, the fact that the Viper is a Chrysler and the Z cars are made by Chevrolet doesn't bother me a bit. After all, both the Viper and the Z cars have kicked some serious butt over the years in both the ALMS and European race car series. The fact that SRT has entered the ALMS series will give it a lot of street cred and once it starts winning it will boost the brand.
What's key in this whole equation is the execution of the new Viper. If it truly lives up to expectations in terms of quality, fit and finish, it has the potential to erase the perception that has in part plagued the car from the beginning. I'm not concerned about the performance...that's a given. Time will tell, but it looks like Ralph has a very good game plan and keep in mind Fiat and Chrysler are gigantic corporations and they move about as quick as a battleship: there are no quick maneuvers. Ferrari operates more like a PT boat and their contribution to Fiats bottom line is meaningful. Although Ferrari answers to Fiat it has a lot of autonomy.
In the end Viper lives to see another day.

The horror stories of having your Viper serviced at some local dodge dealer who on their best day might see two a YEAR are legion here.
You are missing the point. Everyone says SRT has a plan to address the problem and some are skeptical. Spend six figures on a car and having nowhere to bring it when a warranty issue arises is a serious concern. Are you suggesting that its "just a rebranded Dodge" so any lot jockey can take a whack at it? That's exactly where things are right now. So we will wait and see what the master plan is.

 

[bcmarly]

The horror stories of having your Viper serviced at some local dodge dealer who on their best day might see two a YEAR are legion here.
You are missing the point. Everyone says SRT has a plan to address the problem and some are skeptical. Spend six figures on a car and having nowhere to bring it when a warranty issue arises is a serious concern. Are you suggesting that its "just a rebranded Dodge" so any lot jockey can take a whack at it?
That's exactly where things are right now. So we will wait and see what the master plan is.

No doubt, but is the Viper that unique of a car that a competent mechanic can't work on it....

No you are mis-interpreting my comment, I am skeptical based on everything I've read here....just trying to understand the degree of complexity of working on a Viper.

Agreed and time will tell.

 

[bcmarly]

This is one of the most thoughtful and bests posts in this thread. Coloviper and ViperJon also have legitimate concerns, however.

Thanks...I'm not trying to minimize their concerns. As a prospective owner I am all ears.

 

[Paul Hawker]

They just interviewed Ralph on the American LeMans race. He mentioned that he was only expecting to have around 200 or so dealerships handling Viper.

Regarding the $100,000 fee, I doubt any of it is cash to SRT, but perhaps the total costs of developing a SRT dealership program. Would include training, spare parts, specialized tools, signage etc.

 

[PatentLaw]

They're going to have to come up with some idea to have more localized SRT service, particularly in denser population areas like here on Long Island. Us Viper owners are used to buying from a dealer across the country as there are so few that have any stock to choose from but Mr. Porsche/Ferrari driver wants to walk into a dealer locally and order a car and get waited on hand and foot.

Perhaps if the people in NY had bought from some of the better dealers up in NY, they would not have to buy from other states. Being from NJ, and now from Texas, I find it ironic of people complaining that they can't get stuff locally, but when there were options to buy locally, they did not. And even if you did buy from the local dealer, it was not enough to justify the dealer carrying the car. In other words, this "high population density" argument is irrelevant because there was not enough people to support the service.

The NY owners don't deserve such treatment because they do not support it. It is not a slam on the NY and NJ people. It is just a fact. Seeing what happens in Houston has opened my eyes. We buy locally....you do not. We have a prime dealership, you do not. Too bad for guys like Tator, but you guys did not care about that anyway. He was not supported.

 

[bluesrt]

the new viper will be a little more difficult to work on electronicly, maybe,have to see it... the old ones are no differant than any other car, its just the butcher behind the wrench that makes it look scary and totally difficult to work on, as in any car thereare common faults that are known, but anybody with a brain can find and work out those problems..

 

[PDCjonny]

Perhaps if the people in NY had bought from some of the better dealers up in NY, they would not have to buy from other states. Being from NJ, and now from Texas, I find it ironic of people complaining that they can't get stuff locally, but when there were options to buy locally, they did not. And even if you did buy from the local dealer, it was not enough to justify the dealer carrying the car. In other words, this "high population density" argument is irrelevant because there was not enough people to support the service.

The NY owners don't deserve such treatment because they do not support it. It is not a slam on the NY and NJ people. It is just a fact. Seeing what happens in Houston has opened my eyes. We buy locally....you do not. We have a prime dealership, you do not. Too bad for guys like Tator, but you guys did not care about that anyway. He was not supported.

Where to start with this idiocy?

First of all, there has never EVER been a Dodge dealer in the New York area that is remotly comparable to the big time Viper dealers like Woodhouse or Tomball. Never. There is no dealer to support and never has been. Please name the dealer in the NE area that ever stocked more than two Vipers at a time? Tomball and Woodhouse had fifty to choose from. Not to mention if one of the sorry dealers here had one, they wanted way more for it than the bigger dealers. Do you really think that people in NY would choose to buy long distance, sight unseen and have to pay a big transport fee if there was a dealer in the area tha had anything to pick from? This dealer who needed our support as you claim never existed!

Secondly your contenton that Tomball or Woodhouse is successful because local people support it is laughable. Do you have any idea the percentage of local sales compared to out of state sales on Vipers? I'll bet95% out of state. How many Vipers did Woodhouse sell to local Nebraska residents last year? One? Two? Their out of state sales are huge. They are not the biggest Viper dealers because their local residents are gobbling up Vipers they are because of national and international sales. What, because you drop by and get your oil changed your "supporting" them? THEY ONLY EXIST BECAUSE GUYS LIKE ME AND OTHERS HAVE BOUGHT CARS FROM THEM. I SUPPORTED THEM, NOT YOU. How many NEW Vipers have you bought in the few years? Please tell me what your dealer "support" entails. You only have a Tomball with Vipers in stock because of guys like me who buy cars from them.

Saying Tators Dodge was not supported by locals is the biggest error of your many errors. Tators Dodge was hugely supported by many NY VCA members, and many VCA members here came to Chucks defense when Dodge wanted to shut him down the first time. In fact we succeeded in getting that idea changed at the time. But when he lost his dealership finally there was nothing anyone could do, and Chuck had many many supporters voicing their objections to Dodge but the powers that be won out. That had nothing to do with local support for Chuck, he never was in the business of selling cars. He was in the service end. Yes he sold a few cars but that was apparently a blip on Dodge's radar. Many dealers lost their dealerships at that time and since it appears that car sales were the number one priority Chuck got closed.

Do you support your local dealer the same way you support the VCA, enthusiest?

 

[Moundir]

Perhaps if the people in NY had bought from some of the better dealers up in NY, they would not have to buy from other states. Being from NJ, and now from Texas, I find it ironic of people complaining that they can't get stuff locally, but when there were options to buy locally, they did not. And even if you did buy from the local dealer, it was not enough to justify the dealer carrying the car. In other words, this "high population density" argument is irrelevant because there was not enough people to support the service.

The NY owners don't deserve such treatment because they do not support it. It is not a slam on the NY and NJ people. It is just a fact. Seeing what happens in Houston has opened my eyes. We buy locally....you do not. We have a prime dealership, you do not. Too bad for guys like Tator, but you guys did not care about that anyway. He was not supported.

Are you kidding me?! People drive and ship their cars from all over the northeast and Canada to have Tators work on their cars! That's not support I suppose as far as the rest of your logic, maybe you outta check with Tomball and Woodhouse to see where the majority of their support comes from!

 

[PatentLaw]

Where to start with this idiocy?

First of all, there has never EVER been a Dodge dealer in the New York area that is remotly comparable to the big time Viper dealers like Woodhouse or Tomball. Never. There is no dealer to support and never has been. Please name the dealer in the NE area that ever stocked more than two Vipers at a time? Tomball and Woodhouse had fifty to choose from. Not to mention if one of the sorry dealers here had one, they wanted way more for it than the bigger dealers. Do you really think that people in NY would choose to buy long distance, sight unseen and have to pay a big transport fee if there was a dealer in the area tha had anything to pick from? This dealer who needed our support as you claim never existed!

Secondly your contenton that Tomball or Woodhouse is successful because local people support it is laughable. Do you have any idea the percentage of local sales compared to out of state sales on Vipers? I'll bet95% out of state. How many Vipers did Woodhouse sell to local Nebraska residents last year? One? Two? Their out of state sales are huge. They are not the biggest Viper dealers because their local residents are gobbling up Vipers they are because of national and international sales. What, because you drop by and get your oil changed your "supporting" them? THEY ONLY EXIST BECAUSE GUYS LIKE ME AND OTHERS HAVE BOUGHT CARS FROM THEM. I SUPPORTED THEM, NOT YOU. How many NEW Vipers have you bought in the few years? Please tell me what your dealer "support" entails. You only have a Tomball with Vipers in stock because of guys like me who buy cars from them.

Saying Tators Dodge was not supported by locals is the biggest error of your many errors. Tators Dodge was hugely supported by many NY VCA members, and many VCA members here came to Chucks defense when Dodge wanted to shut him down the first time. In fact we succeeded in getting that idea changed at the time. But when he lost his dealership finally there was nothing anyone could do, and Chuck had many many supporters voicing their objections to Dodge but the powers that be won out. That had nothing to do with local support for Chuck, he never was in the business of selling cars. He was in the service end. Yes he sold a few cars but that was apparently a blip on Dodge's radar. Many dealers lost their dealerships at that time and since it appears that car sales were the number one priority Chuck got closed.

Do you support your local dealer the same way you support the VCA, enthusiest?

Wow. Ok, well here goes. NYC is not the end all be all. You bought from an outside of NYC dealer because you wanted to save money. You admitted that you did. So you did not support Tator with buying your car there. He made no money on your purchase. You outsourced it. You did not go local.

Your support was too little, too late. It was support, but not with money buying a car.

And your knowledge of the Houston area is laughable. You make it sound like everyone is "right around the corner" here in Houston. People drive from a larger area than the NYC area to buy and get their cars serviced there at Tomball. It is a huge area where people come from hours away to get their cars serviced. To put it in a context that you may understand, people regularly go a distance from Jericho NY to South Salem to get their cars taken care of.


95 percent of the sales in Tomball/Houston are from the outside? Laughable. You have no idea of how many Vipers there are down here. And there are big dollars on service, not on the sale of the actual car. People use Tomball because they trust them. Tomball would exist without the Viper and sales from NYC because it is a large dealership. To think that it would not shows how much you think of yourself and how devoid of reality that you are.

You pay high NY/Long Island taxes because you WANT to. Instead of paying those high taxes, Texans buy cars with their money as there is no State Income Tax. THAT IS WHY THERE IS A BIG DEALERSHIP. PEOPLE BUY CARS BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD THEM and do not give their money away! Imagine having an extra 40k in your pay every year. Property taxes, as well, are not unbearable. It is a large dealership because the people in the area support it.


You want to send your money down here to Houston? Be my guest. Just don't whine when you have to travel a few miles to get your car serviced or somehow state that it is Dodge's fault because there is not enough business to support the infrastructure in Long Island. It is the height of hubris to think that Texans do not buy Vipers in large numbers. Typical Long Island (not necessarily NY) attitude.

Like you could not have ordered your car through the local dealer like Tator and that he would not have taken that order.

Texans support the local economy, that is why we have nice dealerships, great roads, friendly people. Oh, that is right...we only exist down here because of people like YOU who purchase cars from 1600 miles away. Hillarious. Absolutely Hillarious that you would put that down for others to read. We exist because of you.

Enjoy paying those taxes and having crappy dealerships. That is what you want and support.

Now go along and complain more about Gen II owners and how Gen II cars are crap in all the other threads while you have the greatest Gen IV car in the world. I can't help but think that everybody really loves to read your constant diatribes on the subject, big spender.....

 

[PDCjonny]

Enthusiast-
I'm sorry, I missed the part where you explained what you did to support your local dealers...was it an oil change every two years?

Would have been hard to buy a Viper from Tators in 2009 or 2010 when he wasn't a Dodge dealer and couldn't order cars wouldn't it?
Had nothing to do with saving money. Had everything to do with Tomball having 50 Vipers in stock and local dealers having 0 in stock.
Is that too hard to grasp?

Yes I will say it again. Tomball and Woodhouse sell the majority of their Vipers to people out of state.
I didn't say people in just NYC. That means people out of of state are an important reason for their success.

Your jealousy is transparent in every post you write here and other threads. Bitter and angry.
Guess that makes you a "small" spender...