Codes, tuning with Stryker Heads and Cam?

[Tim]

I will go with the Stryker Heads and probably the cam but before I do I have a couple of questions.
My 2002 RT10 is stock except for the 3” Corsa and high flow cats along with the K&N and smooth tubes and the car runs fine but it is slightly slower than my old 1994 with a Stock Arrow Racing Rebuild
Whose headers will work best here? The B&B or the Bellanger? Do I buy 1 ¾” or 1 5/8”?
Has anyone had any problems throwing codes after these heads and or cams were changed.
What do I buy to tune it with after or does the factory unit adjusts sufficiently for the additional airflow?
At the end of the day I don’t; have the time to deal with a bunch of headaches if there are problems in going this way.
I’m up here in Calgary Alberta and we don’t have the resources with experience to chase down any problems. The shop here in Calgary that most of the Viper owners are using as well as the Vette owners, they are very skeptical that I will gain the claimed 100 hp with these mods on a NA cars compared to the supercharged cars that are out there.
Thanks in advance.
Tim

 

[RobZilla]

I'm sure someone with a lot more knowledge will be along soon, but heres my .02 cents. I would suggest at a minimun getting a Vec II or III. When replacing the headers with a 3" exhaust, it's possibly to throw an O2 sensor code. This is a problem that I am working on in another thread.

You wont need anything behind the Cats since you still have em. Some will suggest that after you get everything installed, taking it to a dyno to tune it all in.

I have B&B headers on mine, I love em and the sound is incredible. At idle in gas stations or traffic lights I get tons of comments

 

[Camfab]

Facts on my car 2000 ACR

Striker + JM cam = 150 rwhp gain
You must tune the car, mine was barely driveable without tune. DC Performance can do that.
10 K+ in parts alone, without headers + tune you'll be closer to 13 K+

If your worried about issues and your not 100% confident of your skills or the shop your going to use, leave the car alone. No need to spend extra cash on a VEC II either.

 

[black mamba1]

You will at minimum need a VEC 3. Or have someone go right into your PCM and change the adaptives to your new conditions. The newer the car it seems the tighter the range the PCM will allow w/out throwing codes. I have a head and cam job and a VEC 3, and am STILL throwing codes, but I have an aggressive tune. I would rather clear the codes than lose power by detuning.

But yes, you will deff throw codes with your mods w/out the VEC or DC tune. Throwing the code will put the car in safe/limp mode and you will lose power, you dont want that!

 

[Camfab]

You will at minimum need a VEC 3. Or have someone go right into your PCM and change the adaptives to your new conditions. The newer the car it seems the tighter the range the PCM will allow w/out throwing codes. I have a head and cam job and a VEC 3, and am STILL throwing codes, but I have an aggressive tune. I would rather clear the codes than lose power by detuning.

But yes, you will deff throw codes with your mods w/out the VEC or DC tune. Throwing the code will put the car in safe/limp mode and you will lose power, you dont want that!

He has an '02, all he needs is a DC tune.

 

[black mamba1]

He has an '02, all he needs is a DC tune.

Oops, I didnt pick up on that, sorry!

 

[ACPERFORMANCE]

In my opinion, the best header to yield the most power would be the American Racing Header in either a 1-5/8 stepped to 1-3/4 or a full 1-3/4. No sliptubes, real merge collector, 304ss steel. They are amazing and come complete with high flow cats and pipes.

As far as your tune, it really depends on how big of a cam you install. The lower vacuum of the bigger cam may have an impact because of the varying load values at different vacuum settings.

On Stock cams for your year we have seen as much as 17.8 inches of vacuum at idle. On some of the cams we have installed from Jm we see about 9 inches of vacuum.

The factory computer will learn and help adaptives all around BUT you will definately need some tweaking to perfect driveability and get maximum power. An air fuel curve or dyno printout after installation would really help a tuner make adjustments on your computer in the appropriate places.

As far as engine management, A VEC3 will allow you to tune the car easier in my opinion. If you have a VEC3, an air fuel gauge plumbed in for datalogging, and a computer, you can honestly get some assistance over the phone, and avoid multiple reflashes or driveability issues. and you have all the tuning tools at your disposal.

A computer flash can help but ultimately you are far away without alot of assistance there. May be better for you to have a base tune sent to you with a VEC and then learn to tune it a little with some practice and then you wont need the help that isn't too available to you there.

Just my .02..

If you have any questions, you can always call and ask for me

Todd
A&C Performance
951-816-9111

 

[Tim]

Will I still need a VEC even after sending my PCM away to Dan for tuning? Does anyone know the profile of Jeffs cam?

CamFab, what other stuff you have on your car? What are your final HP and Torq number?

Thanks

 

[Camfab]

As far as what's done to my car http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/604601-finally-got-tuned-dc-performance-today.html . Last time I dyno'd the car it made 585 HP/TQ at the wheels. The American Racing header in the stepped version sounds like the right call to me. I want to try a set of those and campare the results against my smaller SVS headers but I've got to wait this damn writer's strike out.

 

[Tim]

To put this togther, who is the best bet to go to to buy all of the gaskets etc from?

 

[plumcrazy]

tators dodge 914-763-3136

 

[SSSSE YA]

Call Dan @ DC Performance, He is working on my Viper right now with the same problems (codes). I am sure he can anwser all your questions..
:

 

[Tim]

Call Dan @ DC Performance, He is working on my Viper right now with the same problems (codes). I am sure he can anwser all your questions..
:

What kind of problem are you having and what codes are you throwing?

 

[SSSSE YA]

What kind of problem are you having and what codes are you throwing?

Paying my bill @ DC. I really do not know, we are still talking with Dan. I think it is under control now.

 

[vprtech]

The Striker head/cam combination is awsome, although it does present some tuning challenges. You could tune the wot afr and timing with the VEC2/3 or other piggyback device, but you will still have drivability issues if you don't recalibrate the pcm. Because of the overlap of that camshaft and the resulting low vacuum and high exhaust dilution, the factory pcm calibration is going to do strange and unpleasant things to way your car drives. Things like surging at cruise and severe idle hang on decel, and will certainly throw dtc's for missfire, O2 sensors, etc no matter how well the car is tuned with a external tuning device such as a split second box or VEC . All of these issues can be corrected with a pcm calibration.

Rob's car was not throwing codes, he was having monitor issue that should now be corrected

- Chris

DC Performance: Proven Performance

 

[Tim]

Hello Chris

So in buying the Cam and Heads and going with B&B or Bellanger headers and probably port matching the intake and I send my PCM to you while doing the installation on the car. You can set my PCM up so that I can drive the car and not keep UPS in business jet setting the PCM all over Canada and the US trying to get the car so I can drive it?

As the summers are short enough here in Canada I don’t want to lose a season of driving. As well I'm past the point in life in being the guinea pig in science experiments that only sometimes work and don’t need the added stress. Most of us at one time or another have been burnt in this market.

I will send you my PCM and can you promise me that as long as I follow everything to the T from you and Jeff I won’t have any problems or at least nothing major that will add up to weeks of misery and untold dollars?

Realistically what are you seeing at the rear wheels with this package?

Regards

Tim

 

[vprtech]

Hello Chris

So in buying the Cam and Heads and going with B&B or Bellanger headers and probably port matching the intake and I send my PCM to you while doing the installation on the car. You can set my PCM up so that I can drive the car and not keep UPS in business jet setting the PCM all over Canada and the US trying to get the car so I can drive it?

As the summers are short enough here in Canada I don’t want to lose a season of driving. As well I'm past the point in life in being the guinea pig in science experiments that only sometimes work and don’t need the added stress. Most of us at one time or another have been burnt in this market.

I will send you my PCM and can you promise me that as long as I follow everything to the T from you and Jeff I won’t have any problems or at least nothing major that will add up to weeks of misery and untold dollars?

Realistically what are you seeing at the rear wheels with this package?

Regards

Tim

As long as the parts combination is close to a tune we have already done, which sounds like it is, the car should run well. As you probably already know, when you are doing heavy modifications to any car, there is always the chance that problems can come up. Hopefully you don't have any, but sometimes it is necessary to make a small adjustment here or there, or be able to diagnose a problem if one comes up.

If you are concerned about the possibility of sending your pcm back to us, you may want to purchase a SCT tuner. You will get the same calibration, but with the option of switching between three different tunes and I can email you additional tunes that you can upload to your handheld if necessary. It's not always possible to please everyone, but we have tuned a bunch of the Striker head/cam combinations on generation two and three Vipers, and I believe everyone has been happy so far.

- Chris

DC Performance: Proven Performance

 

[Tim]

Hello Chris,

This tuner sounds like it is fairly new. How does it work, what are the negatives or potential problems when using it instead of sending my PCM in and how much does it cost?

Based on a head and cam swap with port matching and headers, what kind of HP are you seeing at the rear wheels?

Thanks

Tim

 

[vprtech]

Tim, the SCT device is a flash tool, that allows someone to upload ecu files (in SCT format) into the device, from a laptop or pc. You can then flash this calibration into the vehicle. The first time you connect the device, it will read and store your original ecu program in you car before you can load one of up to three custom tunes that can be loaded into the handheld. Additionally the device will read and clear trouble codes, and at some point should have high speed data logging capabilities.

Please feel free to call me at the shop if you have any other questions.

- Chris

DC Performance: Proven Performance

310-841-6996

 

[Tim]

Chris,

What are you seeing at the rear wheels for HP and Torque?

Tim