crazy it still hasn't sold!

[TAILWAG]

wrong, you can totally go by kbb, especially on vettes. and i don't even need to qualify that statement by saying "in this economy." i was finding cars last year as well. one just needs to spend more time looking. if you know any car dealers or wholesalers... they take trade-ins or buy them at auction all day for prices that will shock you. and just because a price sounds too good to be true doesn't necessarily mean there is a "story" behind it. if there are owners willing to trade in their cars for below kbb trade-in "good" value, what makes you think you can't offer $500-1000 more to an owner looking for a quick exit (and still be well below kbb)? in a deleveraging environment like the one we are in, many assets get unwound regardless of what it is. if homes are down 30-40%, why would it be unbelievable for vipers to come down? and what is a greater necessity/ vs. luxury? when an individual needs to liquidate, they will take whatever they are comfortable with, especially if there is a time crunch.

last year, auto sales totalled to about 17 million. if we go by last month's sales and annualize that, we're looking at about 10 million. to give some significance to that figure: we're back to 1983. with all the easy money, rebates, 0% financing, the auto industry was on an unsustainable path. i've also come across the fact that there's now 1 car in the US for every person of driving age. so at the margin, the viper market will be and HAS been affected.

that said, to your point of vipers being in a narrow market, i would agree - especially in your case/ your particular car. there are not many examples of the combo you were looking for, but this thread has largely been about a Red GTS. even then though, there exist owners out there who might not even know what "jewel" of a viper they have on their hands - not all viper owners are enthusiasts, much less historians, fanatics, etc. like the majority that frequent this site. the only problem that remains in a buyer's market for a smart, patient buyer with cash on hand is the time/money saved tradeoff.

Tailwag, your car looks amazing, but the "right" buyer is going to have to cross paths with you for the sale to happen. the question is how long you are willing to wait. the turnaround everyone is hoping for in the economy is quite a ways away.

my question, which may have been asked, but i missed is: why are you selling the viper and keeping the vette???

You articulate very well and make tons of sense. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I think I agree with 100% of what you stated.

To your question about keeping the Z06, over the Viper. It is quite simple:
1. I have 4 1/2 years left of warranty on the Z06. I track the car and is the perfect car for me. I only bought her 7 months ago (this is my 2nd C6Z) and I have yet to find something that performs as well/better than she does for the money.
2. I am selling the Viper to buy a new ACR. I don't want to get a loan, so I need the additional cash from the sale of the GTS to purchase the ACR straight.

 

[TAILWAG]

First, you have a beautiful car and I am sure there's lots of people who appreciate it. However, I just bought an 04 with half the miles for similar pricing, so....

Hey ShadowLight...seriously...you should post some photos of your 04 w/ 1/2 the miles for $ 39,900. I would love to seem them - please post them.

 

[Dom426h]

First, you have a beautiful car and I am sure there's lots of people who appreciate it. However, I just bought an 04 with half the miles for similar pricing, so....

So.... What?

I could have bought your car for prob the same price as my 7year older 97 GTS. But i didnt as i Love Gen2's and will keep mine forever while it appreciates to some ridiculous value that is insigificant to me

Gen2 vs Gen3 pricing is like comparing apples to oranges

Gen 3's may be much closer represented by a book value because they are still deprecating.

Gen 2's have depreciated to a certain point and then simply stopped and have been selling in a consistent range for the past few years.(with exception to this Temporary economy) For example; you could have bought a nice GTS in 05/06 and sold it in 07/early08 for roughly the same price you paid, While a gen3 would have lost $10-$20K in value in that same period.

 

[Dom426h]

wrong, you can totally go by kbb

ok, 488, i'll make you the same offer i made JoDell,
Sell me your B/W GTS in 10yrs for its KBBook value and I'll Take It!!!

im sure my B/W wouldnt mind having a twin to play with :

 

[Joseph Dell]

ok, 488, i'll make you the same offer i made JoDell,
Sell me your B/W GTS in 10yrs for its KBBook value and I'll Take It!!!

im sure my B/W wouldnt mind having a twin to play with :

If I wanted to sell a car I'd be happy w/ book value! But I don't have a BW so giving me an offer doesn't really mean much.

I still see BW's at auction for low to mid 30's. If I had the cash I'd pick one up. They are out there... even on this forum.

 

[ShadowLight]

Hey ShadowLight...seriously...you should post some photos of your 04 w/ 1/2 the miles for $ 39,900. I would love to seem them - please post them.

It wasn't 39,900 but not far from it.

Evan Bangs's Photos - Hit the lights, it's Viper time! | Facebook

That should do it, but let me know if you need higher resolution.

If you're looking for flaws, let me know if you find any, cause I still haven't found any since buying it a month ago.

 

[ShadowLight]

So.... What?

I could have bought your car for prob the same price as my 7year older 97 GTS. But i didnt as i Love Gen2's and will keep mine forever while it appreciates to some ridiculous value that is insigificant to me

Gen2 vs Gen3 pricing is like comparing apples to oranges

Gen 3's may be much closer represented by a book value because they are still deprecating.

Gen 2's have depreciated to a certain point and then simply stopped and have been selling in a consistent range for the past few years.(with exception to this Temporary economy) For example; you could have bought a nice GTS in 05/06 and sold it in 07/early08 for roughly the same price you paid, While a gen3 would have lost $10-$20K in value in that same period.

That's great. Not being a hater at all. Just giving market feedback.

I am trying to sell my gorgeous Z06 and I'm feeling the pinch just like everyone else here.

If someone wants a quick sale, you do need to appreciate the intricacies of the current market. However, I HOPE a beautiful car like that finds a home with someone who has researched it and truely appreciates it.

 

[agentf1]

FWIW, a recent owner scored a yellow 05 for $42k, just 7k mi on the clock and a few months left on the warranty. quoting California figures - KBB suggested retail value: $58,315, private party "excellent": $53,785, private party "good": $51,185, trade-in "excellent": $50,655, trade-in "good": $48,355, trade-in "fair": $44,155. KBB viper figures can apply, and have been beat.

Yes, but you are now talking about Gen III's. I guess I should have been more specific with my comment as I was referring to Gen I and II's since that is what this thread is about. Of course, there is always exceptions to the rule.

I have seen some unbelievable prices on Gen III's and have seriously been thinking about grabbing one. Now if I could just find a nice low mile Crystal Slate Gen III for low 30's.

 

[TAILWAG]

It wasn't 39,900 but not far from it.

Evan Bangs's Photos - Hit the lights, it's Viper time! | Facebook

That should do it, but let me know if you need higher resolution.

If you're looking for flaws, let me know if you find any, cause I still haven't found any since buying it a month ago.

Not looking for flaws...just wanted to see what kind of GenIII you can pick up for the money. She looks very clean and like an excellent buy - congrats!!

 

[Alexarz]

Tailwag, I'll give it to you straight so that it might help you sell it. Solid red blows. Solid colors in general are far less desirable on Vipers than striped Vipers and red is the least desirable of all. Your engine looks great but that is only a minor factor. You have some miles on the car. Anything over 20k drops the price a lot on Vipers. Particularly in this economy, if you want to sell ANYTHING (car, house, dog, furniture, whatever) you are going to have to be willing to take a bath. Your Viper is not going to sell for anything over 32k unless you get VERY lucky. In my estimation, you are going to have to drop the price to 29k. Your price is way out of line. I understand that this leaves you short of the money you need to buy an ACR but that is the reality of your situation.

It might be worth it to paint some stripes on it. You will sell it for more and a lot sooner.

 

[Alexarz]

Now look at this compared to your wretched bomb.

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You must be registered for see images

 

[Alexarz]

Then you have to compete with these beauties popping up on ebay.

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[Alexarz]

29k or forget about it! 36k with stripes

 

[Fatboy 18]

29k or forget about it! 36k with stripes

Sorry but I disagree, not everybody likes stripes, also the car has a lot of extras on it, and also being a VCA members car shows that its been well looked after. Yes there are lower priced cars out there, but history and a realy clean car with extras gets my vote. Admittedly times are tough at the moment but now that you guys have a new president, things will soon be back on track
.....Well hopefully Not all of us prefer Bumble Bees

Hang on in there, its a good clean car

 

[TAILWAG]

Now look at this compared to your wretched bomb.

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Thanks...you just reminded my why I didn't like the stripes. The problem with stripes is, once you have them, you have them...there is no way at getting them out. I specifically looked for one without stripes.

 

[dun4791]

Thanks...you just reminded my why I didn't like the stripes. The problem with stripes is, once you have them, you have them...there is no way at getting them out. I specifically looked for one without stripes.

I only considered GTSs without stripes as well when I bought mine. I guess Im in the minority, but I dont like any cars with stripes............

 

[Alexarz]

Thanks...you just reminded my why I didn't like the stripes. The problem with stripes is, once you have them, you have them...there is no way at getting them out. I specifically looked for one without stripes.

LOL, sure you did.............and Joe the Plumber picked a fat wife even though he could have married Jessica Biehl because once you pick a rich, fine wife, you are stuck with her. The point is, even if your statement is not total B.S., you are in the minority by a longshot. Most people prefer Vipers with stripes and they are worth more than those without. Red is also the least desirable color for a Viper. Like these facts or not, this is just the way it is.

 

[TAILWAG]

LOL, sure you did.............and Joe the Plumber picked a fat wife even though he could have married Jessica Biehl because once you pick a rich, fine wife, you are stuck with her. The point is, even if your statement is not total B.S., you are in the minority by a longshot. Most people prefer Vipers with stripes and they are worth more than those without. Red is also the least desirable color for a Viper. Like these facts or not, this is just the way it is.

And I think you already made your point and gave your opinion...so, why keep making it over and over again, if it doesn't affect you? Not everyone has the same taste you do Alex...and I believe there was a thread about this already and you lost by a large margin...so...let's just agree to disagree.

 

[agentf1]

Tailwag, I just looked at your pics and it truly is a beautiful car in outrstanding shape. I say as long as you are not desperate hold your ground. I do not think your problem is price since that car is worth 39.9 all day long. The problem is nobody is buying "ANYTHING" right now at ANY price. So hold your ground and eventually people will start buying cars again and it WILL go. Sure being red without stripes or having over 20k does not help but the car shows beautifully and is a Gen II Viper.

 

[Alexarz]

Tailwag, I am just trying to make you see the light. Nothing is worth anything anymore. Houses have dropped by 33% or more in the last year or so. The big 3 are going bankrupt for a reason. Very few people even have the mindset to consider buying a toy like a Viper. Don't you think that I have some relatively worthless things as well? I think your best bet is to keep the Viper and come to terms with not having an ACR. We all would like to have an ACR but we can't all get them right now. Either that, or sell both of your cars, take a bath on them and buy the ACR if it means that much to you.

And by the way; I won that contest by a landslide. It was one of the most glorious victories this forum has ever seen and I am fully prepared for the expected autograph requests..

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

Welcome to the new economy....buddy, you got a dime.

 

[zracer196]

Tough crowd! I thought some of my motorcycle racing forums were harsh...Of course those guys are younger and you would expect that...Man, I will be careful what I post or say here...At least if it is regards to personal taste! LOL

That is a NICE car...But the market is BAD. I am afraid to buy one at almost any cost right now.

While I am looking for a great price, even the "great" price scares me.

I would much rather have the economy back where it was (or needs to be) and spend more on my future Viper.

Scary out there!

Good luck selling!! It is a nice one!

 

[Leslie]

the supply/demand equation certainly holds true here.

keep it priced like you have it-and you may STILL have it a yr from now

drop the price to match the economy-and it will be gone.

pretty simple.

Mine didn't sell, I decided to keep it until the market changes, not willing to take a bath and don't need to. On the car that is haha!

Good luck on your sale

 

[TAILWAG]

the supply/demand equation certainly holds true here.

keep it priced like you have it-and you may STILL have it a yr from now

drop the price to match the economy-and it will be gone.

pretty simple.

Mine didn't sell, I decided to keep it until the market changes, not willing to take a bath and don't need to. On the car that is haha!

Good luck on your sale

Maybe I "secretely" want to hang on to it...I drove it to the gym today...about a 10 mile drive and 10 mile back...had 5 compliments on it: 3 at different stop lights, 1 at the gym parking lot going in when coming out of the car and one coming out of the gym as I was getting in the car to come back home. Gotta love Kansas...

 

[Leslie]

yeh you wanna keep it hahahaaa!

 

[488civ10]

Dom426h, i didn't mean it applies to all vipers, as i acknowledged agentf1's particular case in looking for a graphite or sapphire GTS. sorry my statement was not clear. i'd revise it to point toward Gen 3s (red especially), common color and higher mileage Gen 2s, and later model year Gen 1s (94 red production was high). of course, even that statement isn't specific enough.

like yourself, the b/w Gen 2 was the only car for me, so it's not going anywhere. i didn't have too much leverage when i found it (1 owner CA car, who kept is all stock, and had every single service record), but was grateful for the condition it was in. in 10 years, our twins can visit one another!

ok, 488, i'll make you the same offer i made JoDell,
Sell me your B/W GTS in 10yrs for its KBBook value and I'll Take It!!!

im sure my B/W wouldnt mind having a twin to play with :

 

[488civ10]

...and now i realize you meant you cannot go by kbb prices on older vettes, not C5s and 6s.

right there with you on a crystal slate Gen 3. then we could keep our Gen 2s stock and go nuts on the track with the better performing Gen 3s.

Yes, but you are now talking about Gen III's. I guess I should have been more specific with my comment as I was referring to Gen I and II's since that is what this thread is about. Of course, there is always exceptions to the rule.

I have seen some unbelievable prices on Gen III's and have seriously been thinking about grabbing one. Now if I could just find a nice low mile Crystal Slate Gen III for low 30's.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Tailwag, I am just trying to make you see the light. Nothing is worth anything anymore. Houses have dropped by 33% or more in the last year or so. The big 3 are going bankrupt for a reason. Very few people even have the mindset to consider buying a toy like a Viper. Don't you think that I have some relatively worthless things as well? I think your best bet is to keep the Viper and come to terms with not having an ACR. We all would like to have an ACR but we can't all get them right now. Either that, or sell both of your cars, take a bath on them and buy the ACR if it means that much to you.

And by the way; I won that contest by a landslide. It was one of the most glorious victories this forum has ever seen and I am fully prepared for the expected autograph requests..

A blanket statement that isn't univerally true, except in Florida, Nevada, Arizona and California.

 

[sdaddy]

I would at least sell the second set of wheels and tires separately. Many buyers may not want them and would consider the extra cost and storage a hassel. Second set of wheels also says "heavily tracked" in the mind of many buyers.

 

[TAILWAG]

I would at least sell the second set of wheels and tires separately. Many buyers may not want them and would consider the extra cost and storage a hassel. Second set of wheels also says "heavily tracked" in the mind of many buyers.

That is a very good point. I have the wheels/tires on the classified section - as soon as they sell, I will rework the price to $ 37,900...

I also thought about removing all the stereo stuff and selling it separately along with the 6pt harnesses. Thanks.