Crower Stroker Kit?

[GO 4LO]

I know this was briefly mentioned in a different post awhile back, but figured I'd make a new post about it to bring it to everyone's attention. Is anyone running the Crower stroker kit? It sounds like a pretty good deal, 512cid for $8-10k, provided all the components are high-quality. If anyone is running it, what kind of numbers are you putting down, and how is the durability of the kit? Thanks!
Chris

 

[GTS-R 001]

Call Scott at Elite Motorsports, he has one in his 97 GTS

 

[Tom Welch]

That 8-10K is more like 20+K by the time you get finished. The machine shop is gonna hand you a bill for about 5 grand, then comes installation, headwork to allow the motor to make power, extrude honed intake, a camshaft, small parts, a fuel system and so forth.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Tom

 

[WCKDVPR]

Tom,

Coming from someone looking to "freshen" their motor, I am very curious as to the what you think is going to cost $5k at the machine shop to prepare the bottom end for assembly? The kit includes crank, rods, pistons, rings, bearings, and is balanced.

Understanding that assembly, and corresponding cam, heads, intake, etc will be needed to be used to take advantage of the larger bottom end, all at an extra cost.

I agree a total motor is a lot more than $10k, just can't figure out your machine shop component.

Thanks for your input,

 

[Larry Macedo]

A competant machine shop will charge you anywhere from 1K to $1500.00 in just machine work. Line hone, bore and hone, balance, resize rods, etc. Don't forget to use a hone plate that can be purchased from Arrow Racing Engines. The assembly itself can be as much as 500 or more if file fit rings are used. I think what Tom is referring to is the cost for someone to put together the total package. Spec the cam, rods, pistons, etc for what it is your looking accomplish and what is available.

 

[Tom Welch]

Don't forget folks that your stroker crank will require block clearance in order to swing around without hitting things, also depending on the type of piston and connecting rod, you may have to replace the piston liners.........I'm not giving away any more details than that.

I recently had a 592 CI B-1 Wedge Engine "freshend" and the machine shop charges were almost 2500.00. This was an engine that seemingly required no machine work. Align bore, hone, replace cam bearings, oil passages, crank journal polish, freeze plugs..........and so forth. Heck, Im not even including the 450.00 in round trip shipping of the engine and the 150.00 crate! and it was a V-8. You may be able to find machine work cheaper...but like anything else in life, "you get what you pay for". There are only a handful of machine shops in the country that I trust my engines with and 2-3 grand for proper machining is less than 10% of the average cost of our racing engines.

In a nutshell, count on having 20+ grand in that 510 stroker.....check prices at LPE and APEX for comparison prices for these upgrades on your supplied engine.

We are finalizing production on a 550 CI stroker as you read this. I have machine shop receipts on my desk and know what it takes machining cost wise to achieve swinging a 4.25" crank in a Viper Block. Keep an eye on our website as we will be posting dyno sheets, 1/4 mile performance and pricing in the very near future.

Tom

P.S. A funny but true story.........as most know, I've been involved in drag racing for decades. Several years back when I was racing heavily, one of my racing pals was having continuous problems with engines staying together. He asked me to come and meet his machinist(he used a local shop, I shipped my engines to Ohio)so I did. When I met the machinist, the first thing that I noticed was that his glasses were so thick, they had to be bulletproof! Immediately, I knew that therein lied the problem. This poor fella couldn't hold a .005" tolerance if his life depended upon it, as he simply could not count on the correctness of his vision. Call it a coincidence, but my pal shipped his engine to my machine shop and it ran for 5 straight seasons before needing freshening again.

 

[Torquemonster]

The thread was actually about the quality of hardware in the Crower kit - they have a reasonable name but I'm not qualified to comment about that kit.

I am qualified after seeing so many case histories however - to comment about the use of such hardware - and not knowing the capabilities of the purchaser, these comments apply to all those who want maximum power on a tight budget.

There are always 2 schools of thought - one road and by far the most common - is to bolt on stuff to a factory motor to make it go faster. This is the cheapest IN THE SHORT TERM but also the most risky and will generate the worst end result. Beyond simple bolt ons that improve efficiency overall, I would never take this route.

The second school costs more - but always starts with a tear down and blue-print of the entire engine. Parts used depend upon the level of performance required, but whatever gets put back in is blue-printed as is the basic hardware like the heads, block, crank etc. Blueprinting adds a 100 hours to a typical rebuild - but its cheap insurance for the long haul and it adds up to a lot more power from everything you now bolt on.

I do not know how many times I've seen a basically stock but blue-printed engine combo spank some "hot cammed" bolt-on combo stupid. I've lost count. I used to love developing daily driver combos that would spank the big cammed cars - it was so easy! The big cammed guys hardly ever got it right, they just wanted "big".

A motor is only as good as the platform it is built upon and tolerances should be really close in some cases - eg. bores should be within 0.0002" out of round and taper top and bottom. You will not get that in your average machine shop - period. But that is worth 50hp - and its the cheapest 50hp you'll ever get.

For a stroker kit - there is only one way - and that is the second and it costs what it costs just as Tom says. If budget is an issue either spread it out over time or don't do it... but don't take shortcuts - it'll cost even more when you pick up the motor pieces in a bucket.

If there is anyone reading this who still think that you can build a killer motor on a tight budget you should listen carefully to what Tom just said.

There is a pile of wisdom in what Tom has written - and it's not a sales pitch. He knows that the kind of customer that is only interested in working to a modest budget is not a candidate for a proper engine build up and therefore he's given free advice that you will either learn now or the hard way through countless rebuilds and trial and error replacement bits to get it right....

or then again - maybe you will be one of the few lucky ones that just happen to get a pretty good result on the cheap.... there's always someone that gets away with it - but it's the exception not the rule and the chances are slim. Do it right and you'll never need to worry about it.

Appreciate your comments Tom. I've seen so many young guys in particular spend all their money stupidly on bolt on goodies - only to see it blow up because they would not spend the money on building a good enough platform.... it is like building a house on a sand bank... what happens when it rains and the river comes up? They key is in the building, the machining, the assembly - THEN the parts can do their bit.

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

What Tom and tourquemonster said is right on the M$NEY,Trust me i know. The next thing is the wait,whatever they say Triple it.Mine was actually one of the "Trial 540 CI$"3 month wait turned to 1 year.In my opinion if you are not going to take the time to blueprint,dont bother.Hindside i believe that i would have gone other aves.If you absolutly want it and are ready to release the billf$ld. Give me a call and i will point you in the right direction without the long wait.In my honest opinion there are so many options avail. now that this should be one that you research and think about very seriously.If the groundwork is not done to PERFECTION then you may as well give your money to *******Y.The bragging rights of an all motor car are not worth it unless you are very serious about your racing,and not so concerned about your daily driving.