Current SRT Cam Bolt Issue - Straight from SRT

[Joseph Houss]

Our friends at DC just filled me in on the issue with the V-10 cam sprocket bolts, and I thought I’d pass along the info:

First and foremost, DC has identified the issue and taken steps to contain it. Essentially, the bolts securing the cam sprockets on some V-10 engines can possibly come loose.

DC has developed a service fix that will be implemented by Viper SRT-10-certified Dodge dealers. Clearly, they have complete confidence in these dealers and their Viper technicians, and are fully comfortable and confident in relying on them to complete this service action – under warranty – to make each and every vehicle ‘right’ for each and every customer.

As usual, DC worked hard to identify the issue, and put in process a procedure to quickly address it. We all know they will stand by their product and will properly service each affected car.

Let’s keep the faith and confidence in the company that builds this awesome supercar! ...and get these babies back on the road ASAP!

If you’re having trouble locating a Viper SRT-10-certified dealer near you, our friends at Viper HQ (JR Thompson) are able to help. Give them a call at 1-800-998-1110.

 

[SNAKEPILOT]

Joseph, how about a complete list of the affected serial numbers, so that we can quickly ascertain if we have the problem. I am sure that DC will stand by their product, however I am very disappointed that eighteen months after start of regular production of this engine, we are faced with this issue.
Thanks
John Martinez
Serial # 4V101427

 

[fred]

John: I could not agree more!

 

[SapphireGTS]

Made in the USA BABY!

 

[Vipera Russelli]

Get a copy of your VIP Summary Report.

BLEBYU (Mike) offered in a post on this board entitled SERVICE ACTION #04-006 (http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/sh...mp;view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) to look up your vehicle on his dealership’s DC computer to see if your car is affected. He looked up mine (Thanks Mike!) and sent to me the VIP Summary Report, which listed my personal info, purchase date, VIN and the fact that my car was slated for sprocket bolts repair work. Specifically, it cryptically said: “RAPID RESPONSE TRANSMITTAL (RRT) 04-006 MUST BE PERFORMED.”

I waited a day and then called the dealership where I bought my car (since Mike is three states away) asking if a recall had been issued. “NO, but you might want to call DC.” So then I called DC and asked them the same question. “NO.” Okay, then, how about an RRT? “Oh yea, yes, but you’ll have to call your dealership to find out what that means, because we don’t have access to that information.” Neat, huh? So I called the dealership and told them to look up my VIP Summary Report and read it to me. “Like we said, no recall, but you’re right, there is this RRT thingy. I wonder what that could be.” I told them that it was my understanding that the RRT 04-006 was the cam sprocket bolt issue, of which they had never heard. “Um, we’ll have to look into that. Maybe you should bring your car by so we can hook it up to the computer.” Yea, right. Next day. “We’re still looking, but we still haven’t found any answers. What did you say you think the code means again? We’ll keep you posted.” That was two days ago and I still haven’t heard anything from them.

You know, you would think DC would be falling all over themselves to contact those who are affected by this issue. If it weren’t for this board and Mike’s help, I still wouldn’t know. I wonder if they’ll ever call back. Needless to say, the shop that now has my Viper, is not part of the dealership where I bought my car. And as for finding out if your car is affected, I suggest that you do what I did and contact Mike. Obviously, you can't take just any dealership’s (or DC's) word for it. You need a printout of your VIP Summary Report.

 

[9 seconds]

I believe the problems started because of the increase in engine production for SRT-10 Rams. Everything would have been fine if it wasn't for that.

 

[PBJ]

Hey guys,
We could get your cars back to you sooner if we had any parts. I spoke to the parts division about the issue and they said most of the parts would be released by the second or third week of April. I have cars at my shop now and I am afraid to tell the customers to drive them for fear that something will happen. With nice weather starting to happen, nobody wants to leave their car at the dealer or in their garage. Anyway, hopefully everything will work out for the best and there won't be much of a delay for you guys. I just thought I would fill you in a little. Hope that helps.
Later,
Joe

 

[SNAKEPILOT]

Vipera, I agree that, but for a few knowledgeable dealers, such as Mike Robbins at Ringgold Dodge we would largely be in the dark. As a matter of fact Mike is my dealer, and he promptly checked my VIN and informed me that it appears to be in the clear. However, just yesterday I had a conversation with a very experienced and well known and respected Viper Tech. who informed me that DC as of yet, does not have a real handle on just how many engines are in fact at risk.
I again ask Joseph to please contact "our friends at DC" and obtain a complete and final list of the affected cars so that we can either take a sigh of relief or promptly correct the problem before more engines grenade, costing DC much bigger bucks and resulting in even un happier customers.
By the way SaphireGTS, the last time I found myself on the side of the road waiting for the tow truck, was on my 2001 twin turbo 996 Porsche, so I do not agree with your "made in the USA" comment.

 

[SapphireGTS]

I couldnt resist - its all in good fun. It seems that like GEN III board is just a list of problems.

There have been some major defects with these cars, which is understandable in the first couple production years, but what is amazing is that 99% of the dealers are so misinformed about how to fix these cars. Parts are on backorder for a known issue and that is if you are lucky enough to get someone on the phone that is even aware of the recalls.

I love american cars but dodge has never been known for their superb "after sale" service. I quote car and driver "Dodge is known for making cars that break beyond a dealerships ability to fix them."

Maybe Im just a little bitter that I sold my viper

 

[Vipera Russelli]

Here is some new and conflicting info on the issue.

My Viper tech, who has my car and has ordered the parts to fix the cam sprocket bolt issue, told me a few minutes ago that some of the parts are on backorder and we don’t yet know how long it will take to get them (we’re obviously hoping for just a few days, but we’re not sure at this point). Anyone have any idea if the backlog is getting serious?

And then he provided the following information.

1. Even though I have 1198 miles on the car, I’m not in the clear because these bolts have been known to fall off the SRT-10 engine between driving off the delivery truck to 3000 miles later;

2. We know absolutely that the bolts are not tight enough, since Connor Avenue, on all Vipers manufactured between Sept 15 and Jan 30th, was using the wrong torque specs for the culprit bolts. The new spec, listed as the new spec in the RRT 04-006 instruction is 250 pounds of torque. That’s interesting. I don’t think I’ve heard that one before; and finally

3. Nowhere in the 89 steps of instruction listed in RRT 04-006 for the Viper does it mention LocTite.

Anyone have any ideas how this jives with the “only certain cars are affected” and “the issue is LocTite”?

SapphireGTS--Well put. It is amazing.

 

[1TONY1]

The new spec, listed as the new spec in the RRT 04-006 instruction is 250 pounds of torque. That’s interesting. I don’t think I’ve heard that one before; and finally

PLEASE NOTE: That would be 250 "INCH LBS" of torgue = 25 twenty five foot lbs.

 

[Vipera Russelli]

The new spec, listed as the new spec in the RRT 04-006 instruction is 250 pounds of torque. That’s interesting. I don’t think I’ve heard that one before; and finally

PLEASE NOTE: That would be 250 "INCH LBS" of torgue = 25 twenty five foot lbs.

I was wondering why those dang bolts kept breaking.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Tony - check your math as it is closer to 21 ft-lbs. 25 may just snap them bolts right off!

 

[1TONY1]

Actually 250 inch pound-force = 20.8333333 foot pound-force, but whos counting

Around here my buddies have a saying, it is.... "tony armour tight" meaning....if I had tightened these SRT10 bolts we would not be having this problem

 

[fred]

Keep in mind that if no damage is found all that is required is new oil and filter, antifreeze, and a few seals. Yes, if there is damage parts will be needed. However it all depends on the kind of damage. A new timing cover all the way to a new engine! Otherwise, with no damage, no need for new parts other than what I mentioned above.

 

[2004 SRT-10]

Do you know what parts are on back order?

 

[fred]

Have no idea which parts they are referring to.

 

[Rich Carlson]

The dealers have a list of VIN's that need the RRT. In the RRT was a list of parts that could be needed during the repair. The dealers started ordering multiples of everything on the list before vehicle number one showed up at the dealer. So, that depleted the stock of parts over night. A revision to the RRT has been sent to the dealers, they are not to order all the parts on the list, only what is needed for each vehicle when it is taken apart.

 

[fred]

Makes sense to me!

 

[TacDoc]

2. We know absolutely that the bolts are not tight enough, since Connor Avenue, on all Vipers manufactured between Sept 15 and Jan 30th, was using the wrong torque specs for the culprit bolts.

Hmm, my build date was Sep 17 and I have been told multiple times from all I have contacted that my engine is ok. The important info is the build date of the motor. In any case I am driving as usual, and worse case I will get a complimentary free motor at some point.

 

[JonB]

CAAP Old pre-set spec was 200 in-lbs, plus/minus 10%.

When production went TRIPLE due to Ram SRT, the pre-set torque crept down.

Loctite was NEVER USED 92-2004.... It was just given as an excuse, as in "we shoulda used Loctite"

The decision was made to have the SERVICE ACTION go to 250 in-lbs. CAAP could decide to use loctite, but at 250 it is superfluous. Controversial In fact, if used at that rate it could interfere with obtaining a correct torque reading.

 

[fred]

JonB If I understand you right there was never a Locktight issue? No Locktight resovoir that ran dry? Simply a matter of not torquing the bolts correctly or, needing to increase the torque amount due to the Ram engine running more roughly. (more vibration) I woulld have thought that Dodge would have then limited the campaign to just the truck engines?

 

[Janni]

OK - someone needs to give up the Root Cause Analysis and Corrective Action.

I was at CAAP recently and one of the things that was so state of the art was the electric torque wrenches that were used in the assembly area. The computer held all the data and when a certain socket was removed from the tray, the computer automatically changed the torque setting on the wrench to a pre-programmed value. Assuming this was programmed once correctly (as not ALL engines are affected...), it should never have fallen out of spec. So, somehow, something happened that CHANGED the way these engines were being built. Was the machine reprogrammed? Was there a second machine brought online to support the increased engine build demand?

SRT owners have really been subject to a couple fairly significant "issues" with their cars. I know that CAAP prides itself on it's quality control and that they have VERY HIGH quality targets and no doubt has already done this investigation / action.

Instead of the speculation and rumor and misinformation, hows about sharing the real data? It certainly can't do more harm than all the second guessing, and it SHOULD make folks feel better about the overall build quality of their cars.

Thanks.

 

[9 seconds]

Janni,
Is the assembly area you mentioned the engine assembly area?

 

[Janni]

I know there was one on the main line - can't recall all the specifics about the engine line - but CAAP was very proud of the quality improvements and decreased warranty claims that they had made by moving the engine line out of Mound Road and in house. I don't remember a specific machine on the engine line - but I would think that that would have some of the tightest controls with regard to torque specs and would be a likely place for such a machine - couple that with increased demand for the engine due to RAM production and it should have been a likely spot for increased controls, increased investment and process monitoring....

Regardless - I want root cause and corrective action..... (darn that manufacturing background - I just can't help myself.)

 

[Vipera Russelli]

What is the issue with Connor Avenue and proper torque? I’ve had, so far, three problems (within the initial 2000 easy miles) due to improper tightening: (1) the cam sprocket bolt issue; (2) the triangular body panel that fell off the car when I was washing it due to three screws having fallen out within the first 300 miles; and (3) the front right ABS sensor that fell off the car due to a bolt that snapped because it had been over torqued during initial assembly. It may be time to revisit the value of these new state-of-the-art electric torque wrenches. I wonder if ALL the screws and bolts should be checked??? Add to this (4) the failure of my master or slave clutch cylinder (diagnosis still under way), and (5) a leaking front shock requiring replacement, which was discovered during investigation of the ABS sensor, and I’m starting to wonder if I’m going to have to eventually resort to the lemon laws for protection. Honestly, I didn’t expect as much in the way of quality control from Dodge as I was used to with Mercedes and Toyota, but I did expect more on this car.

Just yesterday I received a call from some national pollster regarding specialty cars. I told them that I still thought the Viper was a great value for the money since, in my opinion, it’s nearest serious competitor in power and performance is so much more expensive. I did however also add that apparently Dodge has serious quality control issues and that I was very unlikely to consider buying another Dodge of another model.

Sorry to rant on. I still have no regrets, am still excited as ever about owning and driving my Viper, and still expect that once these issues are all resolved that I will have many, many, many problem-free miles ahead of me. That sounds like a reasonable expectation, doesn’t it? Still, I’m with Janni. I could sure use a little confidence boost from Dodge right now in the way of an explanation regarding torque and some reassurance about the overall quality of my $84,000 car.

 

[9 seconds]

Thanks Janni. I agree in that I would like to know what really happened and how it won't happen again. Your earlier post makes claims that these bolts are put together with an electronic torque wrench that had the settings changed. Sounds like more "speculation and rumor and misinformation" as you've claimed others are spreading.

Regardless, you bring up good points and I too wish they'd be addressed. But, I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Janni]

9 Seconds - you are right - I am not sure of the engine assembly procedure. I saw the electronic torque wrench being used on an engine in the main assembly line area. I don't have detailed manufacturing process information on the engine build line - but assumed similar manufacturing processes would be in place. My bad. However - SOMETHING happened that things got out of spec and was corrected but ont before errors occured.

I'd like to hear the process confirmed and then root cause / corrective action explained. Thanks.

 

[fred]

Janni: I am with you on this one. The only thing worse than having a problem like the "cam bolt issue", from an owners point of view, is NOT to have it explained fully and accurately. Dodge risks turning off some of its core enthusiasts by not stepping up and giving us the "official" story. The lesson I am learning here may be to avoid purchasing a Dodge Viper until they have made the same model for 4 years or more. Then, hopefully, they will be able to build it without any major flaws. My 2001 GTS is great. Dodge had a lot of time to get it right and they did. There may have been issues but I do not recall anything major with the 01 GTS. Anyway I guess I am spoiled by my Mercedes S55AMG. Had it almost one year and have 0 issues. I don't expect the Viper to match the Benz in build quality but it ought to be better than it is during the second year production.

 

[9 seconds]

Janni,
I'm with you. If something like that happened at my work, we'd have an RCI that would generate a dozen or so action items.

I thought the electronic torque wrenches were pretty cool. Also cool was that they didn't have to lift them. They just guided them to the bolt/nut. So quiet.