1TONY1
Enthusiast
Yep, within three weeks, the balancer comes off and then the rear takes a
dump
How many others have had this happen ? Seems to be common place.
dump
How many others have had this happen ? Seems to be common place.
Did I mention the rearend busted in the SRT10..............
- Thread starter 1TONY1
- Start date
holy [email protected] year is your SRT?
Max
Max
Skip White
Enthusiast
It appears you have an 04, they had to replace my balancer, as it had been spinning, even though I tightend it up, the damage had been done. The cross pin must have broke in the rearend. Thats that pin that everyone thinks is ok because the factory did improve it, but as Jerry from Unitrax said, it's still very weak. It is so critical these pins be replaced in all 03 and 04's
Now is the time to upgrade the complet rearend.
Skip W
Now is the time to upgrade the complet rearend.
Skip W
Suneal
Enthusiast
Are the replacement pins any better? I might be picking up an '04 this weekend, and if all this about broken rearends it true, I might ask the dealer to replace the pins beforehand.
Kelly06
Viper Owner
I am a mechanical dummy. What exactly is the balancer in the rear end? Also was this broken on a completely stock car or did we have a little boost to help?
Also I assume that when people are calling for replacement of the "pin" that this is not something a dodge dealer is going to just do free---or has there been a bulletin or recall?
Thanks
Also I assume that when people are calling for replacement of the "pin" that this is not something a dodge dealer is going to just do free---or has there been a bulletin or recall?
Thanks
Mach500
Enthusiast
Tony,
Were there any symptoms or warnings before the balancer came off? I recall seeing another thread about an 04 making crunching noise in the rear end. Just curious if they're related. I hope you can get everything back in order soon ...
Were there any symptoms or warnings before the balancer came off? I recall seeing another thread about an 04 making crunching noise in the rear end. Just curious if they're related. I hope you can get everything back in order soon ...
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Kelly, Sorry I wasn't clear: The balancer (harmonic balancer) on front of the engine and the rear differential are getting to be common problems. No boost, no no2, totally stock down to the filters, 3000 miles.
Mach500, The belt was squealing some, I had an appointment set up.....didn't seem like a big deal since it had also squealed before the cam bolt recall (balancer off and on at that time) We guessed it only needed a belt.
Mach500, The belt was squealing some, I had an appointment set up.....didn't seem like a big deal since it had also squealed before the cam bolt recall (balancer off and on at that time) We guessed it only needed a belt.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
The pins that are available from Unitrax, and dealers such as Parts Rack, are not only much stronger, but have an "S" groove machined into the surface which will allow oil to lubricate the entire pin. It is good excuse to install a complete 3:55 rear gear. Makes the stock car come ALIVE!
" Thats that pin that everyone thinks is ok because the factory did improve it, but as Jerry from Unitrax said, it's still very weak. "
Thanks, Skip...have had other VCA members tell me that they heard same info from Unitrax...and, I can remember some posts concerning 03's having the problem EARLY on (like 500 mile point).
Skip, do you suppose that this "weakness" is a built in safety factor ???...as in a drivetrain "pop-off" that is in a "symmetrical" location of drive mechanism (thus rendering car "dead-in-the-water"), thereby avoiding a breakage of one halfshaft under extreme loads ("asymmetrical") the force of which would be far more devastating (as in "fast turn into the wall" !!).
Just wondering....
Thanks, Skip...have had other VCA members tell me that they heard same info from Unitrax...and, I can remember some posts concerning 03's having the problem EARLY on (like 500 mile point).
Skip, do you suppose that this "weakness" is a built in safety factor ???...as in a drivetrain "pop-off" that is in a "symmetrical" location of drive mechanism (thus rendering car "dead-in-the-water"), thereby avoiding a breakage of one halfshaft under extreme loads ("asymmetrical") the force of which would be far more devastating (as in "fast turn into the wall" !!).
Just wondering....
Skip White
Enthusiast
The pin is not an intended shear point, as it destroys the complete rearend, but what is next to go? I supose the CV shaft could be inline for failure, but they are fairly strong. As for Dodge replacing the pin before they have to, no way, co. policy won't allow this. On nice thing though, is they are finally using the Unitrax pin, that is of Nasa technology. I really wouldn't go back with the rearend that's in the car while it's down. Go with a Quaffi, or Detroit Tru Trac, change out the gear ratio while your at it. Peace of mind, as you will allways be leary of putting your foot in it.
ON the subject of Har. balancer, the squek is not from the belt, but the actual balancer is slipping on the crank. Mine had this squeak in the morning, and as it warmed up it faded. When I heard about this being the problem, I went out and checked it, sure enough, it was finger loose. Little did I know the damage was done. The car went in for the cam bolt recall, and there is an upgrade bolt, for the bal. They then found it to be wollered out badly.
Comp Coupes are the same diff. I think, and no they don't break. They really don't do many hard launches. Personally I doubt they leave the oem pin in those cars. I wouldn't
Skip
ps, Don't compare the Comp Coupe with an SRT as far as powertrain, I really think there is much more to those cars than we think, maybe by the factory or after. They run to good for me to believe they are an SRT likeness, with some body bracing and safety equip, and good tires???
ON the subject of Har. balancer, the squek is not from the belt, but the actual balancer is slipping on the crank. Mine had this squeak in the morning, and as it warmed up it faded. When I heard about this being the problem, I went out and checked it, sure enough, it was finger loose. Little did I know the damage was done. The car went in for the cam bolt recall, and there is an upgrade bolt, for the bal. They then found it to be wollered out badly.
Comp Coupes are the same diff. I think, and no they don't break. They really don't do many hard launches. Personally I doubt they leave the oem pin in those cars. I wouldn't
Skip
ps, Don't compare the Comp Coupe with an SRT as far as powertrain, I really think there is much more to those cars than we think, maybe by the factory or after. They run to good for me to believe they are an SRT likeness, with some body bracing and safety equip, and good tires???
Kelly06
Viper Owner
Thanks to all for the info. People keep speaking of the harmonic balancer and checking the tightness with there fingers. Exactly where is this bolt located and can I easily check it myself (at least with my fingers?
Skip White
Enthusiast
I got to thinking about, Steve's question on the pin being a shear point.
If you really want to know what I think is partly responsible for breaking the pin, it's the combination of unloading a decent amount of power to a set of 155lb rims and tires, at 27.2 inches in diameter not to mention the massive 14 rotors that weigh in at 55lbs per axle, and can't forget the very heavy CV shafts. This amount of rotational weight is unheard of in a car.
We want big rims,as wide as steamrollers creating much lateral flex when you get on it,due to the offset or poor centering of the dish, runflats require extremely heavy rims, we think we need giant rotors, but the ZO6 rotors and wheels are far less in weight. They stop very decently. I'm not saying go small on the brakes and wheels, but make them stronger, and LIGHTER....
That is to me the biggest contributing factor in busting up the rear end, especially with a little bit of wheel hop going on. I'll bet every one of these cars have an out of balance drive shaft in them, due to permanent twisting, and that's another thing that should have never been put in these cars, carbon fiber only.
There are solutions for all of this.
I would bet anything this is behind much of wiping the rearends out on these cars. The factory must have forgotton how important these factors are. I'm not waiting till it happens.
When heavy rotating parts flex under load, they create an oscillating effect on everything in line of them, this breaks parts.
The ZO6 refuses to use runflats, due to there extreme outermost weight. Last I heard they did. Slows you down, and breaks drive line parts much easier. Skip White
If you really want to know what I think is partly responsible for breaking the pin, it's the combination of unloading a decent amount of power to a set of 155lb rims and tires, at 27.2 inches in diameter not to mention the massive 14 rotors that weigh in at 55lbs per axle, and can't forget the very heavy CV shafts. This amount of rotational weight is unheard of in a car.
We want big rims,as wide as steamrollers creating much lateral flex when you get on it,due to the offset or poor centering of the dish, runflats require extremely heavy rims, we think we need giant rotors, but the ZO6 rotors and wheels are far less in weight. They stop very decently. I'm not saying go small on the brakes and wheels, but make them stronger, and LIGHTER....
That is to me the biggest contributing factor in busting up the rear end, especially with a little bit of wheel hop going on. I'll bet every one of these cars have an out of balance drive shaft in them, due to permanent twisting, and that's another thing that should have never been put in these cars, carbon fiber only.
There are solutions for all of this.
I would bet anything this is behind much of wiping the rearends out on these cars. The factory must have forgotton how important these factors are. I'm not waiting till it happens.
When heavy rotating parts flex under load, they create an oscillating effect on everything in line of them, this breaks parts.
The ZO6 refuses to use runflats, due to there extreme outermost weight. Last I heard they did. Slows you down, and breaks drive line parts much easier. Skip White
Great analysis, Skip...it all certainly has me wondering.
Will be interesting to hear from some of our Comp Coupe racers on this issue.
Will be interesting to hear from some of our Comp Coupe racers on this issue.
Kelly06
Viper Owner
Having had multiple C5s and z06s (I am not trying to impune the above analysis) but people were blowing a lot of half shafts and rear ends, not to mention the infamous rear end leaks.
Itsounds like some the 10s involved had previous work in terms of cam bolts and I wonder if this had something to do with the balancer? In any case, how large is this rear end-balancer problem(s)?
Itsounds like some the 10s involved had previous work in terms of cam bolts and I wonder if this had something to do with the balancer? In any case, how large is this rear end-balancer problem(s)?
SKIP- The SRT does indeed run almost an identical powertrian to the Comp Coupe. In reality, here are the differences:
-Camshaft, Engine Computer, Exhaust
-Differential (hardened pin w/diff cooler)
-Flywheel
-Shifter
-Transmission Mount
-Oil Pan
Other than that, same. The frame is the same, just with a couple extra stiffening bars over the engine, and a roll cage built onto it. The CC has spherical bearing control arms, Alum. mounts for the steering gear, ball joint heat shielding, 2 peice rotors, lighter wheels...But, the differences in the underbody end there. Every performance item can be retrofitted onto the SRT and is available from dodge. If you wanted, you could literally make an SRT into a CC, minus the rear body. (Hmm...kinda gets you thinking... Maybe an aftermarket company should buy a CC and copy the rear panels, and build a new rear attaching subframe and sell CC kits to make the SRT's into coupes? Dodge might get pissed... but there is ways around that)
PS- Yes, the pins in the SRT diffs are GARBAGE. There are two generations of pins, though I dont know where one stops and the other starts. The early generation has a rough shiny appearance, (similar to the interior aluminum trim peices) and the newer version has a hardened steel look to it, very dark & flat. The Unitrax pins are FAAAR superior to the OEM pins, either generation. It takes a little time to install, but worth it for the piece of mind.
-Camshaft, Engine Computer, Exhaust
-Differential (hardened pin w/diff cooler)
-Flywheel
-Shifter
-Transmission Mount
-Oil Pan
Other than that, same. The frame is the same, just with a couple extra stiffening bars over the engine, and a roll cage built onto it. The CC has spherical bearing control arms, Alum. mounts for the steering gear, ball joint heat shielding, 2 peice rotors, lighter wheels...But, the differences in the underbody end there. Every performance item can be retrofitted onto the SRT and is available from dodge. If you wanted, you could literally make an SRT into a CC, minus the rear body. (Hmm...kinda gets you thinking... Maybe an aftermarket company should buy a CC and copy the rear panels, and build a new rear attaching subframe and sell CC kits to make the SRT's into coupes? Dodge might get pissed... but there is ways around that)
PS- Yes, the pins in the SRT diffs are GARBAGE. There are two generations of pins, though I dont know where one stops and the other starts. The early generation has a rough shiny appearance, (similar to the interior aluminum trim peices) and the newer version has a hardened steel look to it, very dark & flat. The Unitrax pins are FAAAR superior to the OEM pins, either generation. It takes a little time to install, but worth it for the piece of mind.
Skip White
Enthusiast
Undersized rear end and half shafts in the Vettes, especially for a very aggressive group, as they are. Ever watch these guys at the track, there pretty ******* those cars. Many upgrades available for them.
Kelly, the bolt is at the bottom front of the engine. Reach inside of the lower crank pully, and you will feel the bolt, 11/16's size I think, use a deep dish socket that will accomadate an open end wrench on the outside of it. There is a common spark plug socket like this. Most regular deep dish sockets are to long to get the ratchet on, as the rack&pinion is in the way. Short socket won't allow for the ratchet to reach inside the crank pulley. Might use a short extention on the short socket.
Tighten to around 120bls if loose. If it's been loose, get to the dealer imediatly, as it will have to be replaced for sure.
Skip
Kelly, the bolt is at the bottom front of the engine. Reach inside of the lower crank pully, and you will feel the bolt, 11/16's size I think, use a deep dish socket that will accomadate an open end wrench on the outside of it. There is a common spark plug socket like this. Most regular deep dish sockets are to long to get the ratchet on, as the rack&pinion is in the way. Short socket won't allow for the ratchet to reach inside the crank pulley. Might use a short extention on the short socket.
Tighten to around 120bls if loose. If it's been loose, get to the dealer imediatly, as it will have to be replaced for sure.
Skip
PBJ
Enthusiast
Hey guys,
Yes the pins **** in the diffs, but the spider gears are breaking also. I have been finding mine with the pin still in tact and the teeth stripped off the side spider gears...I think it is poor metal quality. It doesn't seem to matter if it is modded or not, I have had several broken in the last couple of months. Oh, by the way, Quaffie (? spelling) does not sell a diff for the SRT yet. If anyone knows of something different available, please let me know.
Later,
Joe
Yes the pins **** in the diffs, but the spider gears are breaking also. I have been finding mine with the pin still in tact and the teeth stripped off the side spider gears...I think it is poor metal quality. It doesn't seem to matter if it is modded or not, I have had several broken in the last couple of months. Oh, by the way, Quaffie (? spelling) does not sell a diff for the SRT yet. If anyone knows of something different available, please let me know.
Later,
Joe
1TONY1
Enthusiast
And another little birdie tells me to also beware of the flywheel/pressure plate bolts being loose. You may can check this by removing the tranny dust cover and prying with a screwdriver. Maybe the "birdie" will chime in.
Skip White
Enthusiast
I was sure they did sell the Quaffie diff for the SRT, if not, then the Detroit Tru Trac, would be a great alternative, as they are very strong, and they are a torque biasing/sensing diff.
When the pin breaks in the oem SRT, it does much damage to the parts in the diff.
Skip W.
When the pin breaks in the oem SRT, it does much damage to the parts in the diff.
Skip W.
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
Any hope for a replacement campaign? What happens when the warrantee is up and the pin breaks....
Skip said " When the pin breaks in the oem SRT, it does much damage to the parts in the diff."
TRUE...but it is my info that (for a STREET CAR) this a MUCH SAFER ( and CHEAPER !!!!) place in which to suffer a drive-line failure than moving the "fail point" forward (tranny, and parts "North") or laterally to half shafts (with the potential catastrophic "corner" damage that ensues...to say nothing of the wild, uncontroable, and sometimes life-threatening ride one can get with a one-sided failure...especially on the street).
Having just returned from discussing this issue with a seasoned Tech; he confirms above, saying that this was the theory taught to him at "Viper Tech School" ...specifically, that the diff is far easier to fix and far cheaper to warranty.
Agree? Disagree? above only meant as info, and NOT an argument...least of all with Skip, who's experience exceeds mine by tons!
TRUE...but it is my info that (for a STREET CAR) this a MUCH SAFER ( and CHEAPER !!!!) place in which to suffer a drive-line failure than moving the "fail point" forward (tranny, and parts "North") or laterally to half shafts (with the potential catastrophic "corner" damage that ensues...to say nothing of the wild, uncontroable, and sometimes life-threatening ride one can get with a one-sided failure...especially on the street).
Having just returned from discussing this issue with a seasoned Tech; he confirms above, saying that this was the theory taught to him at "Viper Tech School" ...specifically, that the diff is far easier to fix and far cheaper to warranty.
Agree? Disagree? above only meant as info, and NOT an argument...least of all with Skip, who's experience exceeds mine by tons!
Kelly06
Viper Owner
Skip, thanks to you and everyone else for the info. So detroit tru trac is the best thing going right now? Where to buy one? Also I read that one person recommended buying the entire rear end, rather than change the components. Any comments on this?
Also, if you strengthen the rear end and change the ratio to 3.55, are the half shafts next to go. Such was the case in the vetts
Also, if you strengthen the rear end and change the ratio to 3.55, are the half shafts next to go. Such was the case in the vetts
Bottom line...if you are planning to drag race formally or informally (read the latter as "street"), beef-up the differential AND the half-shafts plus ADD the loops...then, have fun!!!
Skip White
Enthusiast
Yes, I fear the half shaft breaking. I'ts a must also. The trany is the least to break, but it does happen. The carbon fiber drive shaft is a must in my opinion, as it will not allow dangerous osillations to travel into the other driveline parts. I'm going to see if the co. I deal with can make the half shafts in C/F. The coilover lower mount may not allow room. I'll measure it tomorrow. I'm putting one in each of two of my vehicles, and three other Vipers will be getting them also.
Skip
I'll check on prices in the morning.
Skip
Skip
I'll check on prices in the morning.
Skip
Hans Christian
Enthusiast
Skip,
do you have prices and supplier details for these C/F parts.
I am interested
do you have prices and supplier details for these C/F parts.
I am interested
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
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Hey Skip and group,
Unitrax in Anaheim, CA is working on an upgrade for the CV style half-shafts in our SRT-10's. These should be ready pretty soon and will take gobs of horsepower and torque. They will be stronger, but not quite as "accurate" I am told. In other words, good for the drags, not as good for the track. I had my 3.55's installed there and replaced the "pin" along with polished, "cryoed" ring and pinion set. No problems so far at 5000 miles and some fairly aggressive runs. I'd like to know more about that carbon fiber drive shaft. Is it a bunch lighter? Where to get one and approximate cost.
Thanks, Dan
Unitrax in Anaheim, CA is working on an upgrade for the CV style half-shafts in our SRT-10's. These should be ready pretty soon and will take gobs of horsepower and torque. They will be stronger, but not quite as "accurate" I am told. In other words, good for the drags, not as good for the track. I had my 3.55's installed there and replaced the "pin" along with polished, "cryoed" ring and pinion set. No problems so far at 5000 miles and some fairly aggressive runs. I'd like to know more about that carbon fiber drive shaft. Is it a bunch lighter? Where to get one and approximate cost.
Thanks, Dan
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Mine was the spider gears. The shaft was ok. I don't know if it was the better shaft or not.
TX WHOS YOUR DADDY
Enthusiast
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TONY,TAYLOR RACING AT www.TAYLOR-RACE.COM DOES THE QUAIFE DIFF INSTALL.YOU PULL THE PUMPKIN AND SEND IT TO THEM.THEY WILL DO THE INSTALL AND SHIP IT BACK.PARTS AND LABOR RUN AROUND 2,800.00 IVE DONE TWO QUAIFE REAREND DIFFS INSTALL ON 2 GEN 2 VIPERS.THEY ARE DOING AN INSTALL ON MY SRT 04 AT THIS TIME.THESE REAR ENDS ARE VIRTUALLY BULLET PROOF!I HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THE REAR END GEARS OR THE DIFF AFTER THE QUAIFE CONVERSION.CRAIG TAYLOR IS THE OWNER AND THE MAN TO TALK TO IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN A QUAIFE. REGARDS! NORM 
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