Did someone say "Gen4 transmission into a Gen2" ??
- Thread starter 1TONY1
- Start date
GeneralLee
Enthusiast
Details!?!!!
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Well, just sitting in the floor right now. I'll probably wait until after the AL/TN mountain run at the end of the month to do it. I have to pull the automatic out for the VCA event and might do a quick test fit at that time.
Just a quick visual inspection it looks very close. The input shaft is 1/8" .117" longer on the Gen4. The overall length looks real close and the crossmember mount looks real close.....I'll get measurements later in the week. Bell housing bolts line up fine.
GTSnake
Enthusiast
From what I was told you can't swap them. I would be real interested to see how much modification is needed to make it work.
dave6666
Enthusiast
Drinking habits are cheaper.
rt/10stew
Viper Owner
Why? what is the advantage to doing this?
Thanks Stew
Thanks Stew
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
Much stronger tranny for those that have ............................... slightly modified their Vipers
MTGTS
Enthusiast
I think woodhouse has done this if I'm not mistaken.
rt/10stew
Viper Owner
Much stronger tranny for those that have ............................... slightly modified their Vipers
Ok Thanks for the info
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
Should work fine, you will need to change the drive shaft length to make it happen though as we did with Bob's swap.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
Hey Mark,
did you guys use the twin-disk clutch setup or just the standard LUK in the swap?
did you guys use the twin-disk clutch setup or just the standard LUK in the swap?
1TONY1
Enthusiast
I didn't realize they had done it at all. I IQ'd Mark last week and I asked him if they had done one into a gen2 and he said no....I should have asked if they had done one in a gen2 or 3
A gen3 will go in a gen2 just fine but does that mean a gen2 is easy ? I had heard a lot of differences that are not looking bad at all or not as bad as some thought. Several different options for a yoke...I am going to see the best route to take. The output shaft is the same as a Gen2/3 but the housing is larger = thicker/stronger yoke. Eyeballing the length...they are real close. Meaning a stock shaft with the different yoke might work for Gen2 cars. Of course with a high powered car an aftermarket stronger shaft would be a plus.
Where the gen3 guys get off easy is not needed the speedo tone ring in the transmission.
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Kmrumedy
Enthusiast
This will be an awesome thread!!! When do you start? I'll be watching this one.
Simms
Enthusiast
Very cool! So...what's covered up in the first photo?
1TONY1
Enthusiast
1TONY1
Enthusiast
A rough check of length shows that the gen4 transmission is 5/8" longer than a gen2/3. Based on that and the "unused" portion of the yoke on my gen2 driveshaft, a gen 2 shaft in a gen2 car might very well work. Normally on a car you need room for the driveshaft yoke to move in/out because a normal differential has movement up/down and even some fore/aft. With the Viper rear being more stationary less room is needed. The problem with using the gen2 shaft is that there would not be any room for a tone ring (speed sensor) to mount on the yoke.
A yoke from a Viper truck is supposed to work, this yoke can be purchased separately for around $110 to $163 (list), The other option is a complete gen4 driveshaft/yoke $200 to $243 (list) I am also checking on another source for the Spicer yoke....it may be just a little cheaper than the good price on the truck yoke.
One thing that might work is buying the gen4 shaft/yoke and having the shaft shortened. It is a little over 2" longer than the gen2 shaft. I was hoping it was going to be juuust a little shorter
A yoke from a Viper truck is supposed to work, this yoke can be purchased separately for around $110 to $163 (list), The other option is a complete gen4 driveshaft/yoke $200 to $243 (list) I am also checking on another source for the Spicer yoke....it may be just a little cheaper than the good price on the truck yoke.
One thing that might work is buying the gen4 shaft/yoke and having the shaft shortened. It is a little over 2" longer than the gen2 shaft. I was hoping it was going to be juuust a little shorter
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JeffTheViperMan
Enthusiast
Must be a dirty camera lens
Ah, I hate dirty camera lenses leaving MS Paint boxes all over my pictures...
dave6666
Enthusiast
Um. At what point does the factory Gen 2 transmission become impotent? Like, you know, hp wise?
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
I am guessing 1100 or more. What do I win?
viper spray
Enthusiast
If it works well , can you swap one into mine?
cyaford
Enthusiast
Hey Tony. Does this mean that Armour Racing does transmission work now? Let me know when you're ready to take my tax credit $$$.
dave6666
Enthusiast
One set (pair) of deluxe white hood vents.
Deluxe...
They're all deluxe if they're white!
DEADEYE
Viper Owner
Hmmm. I wonder if a gen4 tranny would be stronger than a G-force modded gen2.
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Of course, but I'm sure Mr. Weaver can handle it too
Hey Tony. Does this mean that Armour Racing does transmission work now? Let me know when you're ready to take my tax credit $$$.
Yes sir, Go ahead and send that check. My new company name is C.A.S.H.
Good question, I decided not to go G-force due to several breakages that I have seen. There are definitely pluses to this one that won't happen with a modded T56. Some pointed out courtesy of GeneralLees post/link http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/625812-new-t56-magnum.html
Take the 6060 and let someone mod it and it might be the very best before an aftermarket race transmissions.
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Update:
I finally broke down and pulled the tail housing off the new transmission. On the T-56, the shaft that the tone ring (speed sensor) sets on is splined just like the transmission output shaft, same shaft, just splined again to the front. The inside of the ring itself is splined/grooved just like the driveshaft yoke. The 6060 does not have the splines for the tone ring to sit on....the shaft in that location is smooth and a smaller diameter so that it cannot be splined to work.
The tail housing on the 6060 does have the pad and blank hole for the speed sensor. I am working on a solution to place the tone ring in the proper location instead of doing it externally. I think this will allow us (gen2) to use our stock driveshaft with just a change of the yoke. I am going to do a test fit as is to confirm the driveshaft length. These pictures are from the stock/old T-56. Sorry for the quality....did them quick with the cell phone.
I finally broke down and pulled the tail housing off the new transmission. On the T-56, the shaft that the tone ring (speed sensor) sets on is splined just like the transmission output shaft, same shaft, just splined again to the front. The inside of the ring itself is splined/grooved just like the driveshaft yoke. The 6060 does not have the splines for the tone ring to sit on....the shaft in that location is smooth and a smaller diameter so that it cannot be splined to work.
The tail housing on the 6060 does have the pad and blank hole for the speed sensor. I am working on a solution to place the tone ring in the proper location instead of doing it externally. I think this will allow us (gen2) to use our stock driveshaft with just a change of the yoke. I am going to do a test fit as is to confirm the driveshaft length. These pictures are from the stock/old T-56. Sorry for the quality....did them quick with the cell phone.
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Hi 1Tony1. I am the Bob that Mark was referring to above. Mark and his techs installed a Gen IV tranny with the Gen IV driveshaft in my Gen III in January, 2008. We also put in the Gen IV differential at that time. Everything has worked perfectly. Mark and his techs were the first ones to figure out how to do the swap. As long as you are doing it, also get the MGW/Woodhouse performance shift mechanism from Mark. The new tranny with the performance shift mechanism is an incredible combination. The shifts are crisp, short and absolutely certain. Everyone who has sat in my car and felt the difference is amazed.
Greg Good Cylinder Heads
Enthusiast
Nice work Tony!
Do you ever stop thinking about Vipers?
Do you ever stop thinking about Vipers?
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Bob,
It's good to here you have a big change to the better. The swap into a gen2 is a little different than to a gen3.....a few issues to work around. Right now, I'm trying to figure out the best for the $$$ way to address these issues. In regards to the "shift mechanism", is that just a shifter or something more ? The shifter location on the 6060 is slightly different and while it may fit fine in a gen3, unless the new shifter is placed in exactly the same location an aftermarket may present a problem, may not. Hopefully not but I will test it first with the stock shifter.
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Nice work Tony!
Do you ever stop thinking about Vipers?
I think they are always somewhere in my mind
