Difference Between 2002 Motor and 2009 Motor

[TorontoACR]

is there any past thread or anywhere I can go to find out the exact difference between the 2002 Viper ACR Motor and the 2009 Viper ACR Motor. I know the motor is a bit bigger in displacement. But other than that can i buy bolt on pasts to get the same power

 

[FrankBarba]

Only if your going Turbo....

 

[1TONY1]

Only if your going Turbo....

Or...

Heads and cam

or

Roe blower

or

Paxton

or

Nitrous

or

Vipair

 

[Bobpantax]

is there any past thread or anywhere I can go to find out the exact difference between the 2002 Viper ACR Motor and the 2009 Viper ACR Motor. I know the motor is a bit bigger in displacement. But other than that can i buy bolt on pasts to get the same power

The 2008 and 2009 motor have the following parts, among others, that are different from the 2002 motor:

1. Valve train (VVT)
2. Cam
3. Pistons, rings, etc.
4. Controller and programming.
5. Intake.
6. Crankshaft.

In other words the answer to your question is you cannot buy 2008 or 2009 engine parts for your 2002 motor to bring it up to 600 HP. You can have the motor built by one of the VCA's qualified tuner sponsors and get to that level or add a supercharger ( you would be well advised to change out your psitons if you do so) and get to that level. On the other hand if you love the Gen II body type and you are willing to spend the money, you might explore whether a Gen IV motor, tranny and diff can be put in a Gen II car. I know that a Gen IV tranny can be installed in a Gen II car because there was a recent extensive thread on point.

 

[Garron]

The two biggest improvements from the new engine are the camshaft and the cylinder heads. The heart of the new engine is a new active camshaft. It is two pieces and can adjust camshaft overlap while running. It works by having special oil ports drilled in the block. You would need to replace the block, camshaft, and find software to run it. Not a cost effective modification. Second is the cylinder heads, from what i know the newer heads will not bolt up to the older engine. I have heard of companys working on kits but have not seen one yet.

It would be cheaper to upgrade you're engine with aftermarket parts.

Garrett

 

[RoadiJeff]

is there any past thread or anywhere I can go to find out the exact difference between the 2002 Viper ACR Motor and the 2009 Viper ACR Motor. I know the motor is a bit bigger in displacement. But other than that can i buy bolt on pasts to get the same power

As others have mentioned, go with something like a SC in your 2002. You'll have 700 hp for a lot less than a 600 hp 2009 motor would cost. Plus, you'll be faster than a 2009, since they have yet to hack the computer for that year to be able to do any serious mods. Don't forget the forged pistons.

On a different subject, you've been here nearly 4 years and this was your first post???

 

[dave6666]

On a different subject, you've been here nearly 4 years and this was your first post???

I've made up for him.

Really. I have.

 

[cornfish]

I've made up for him.

Really. I have.

LOL.. Almosts 11k posts.

 

[Russ M]

A set of striker heads and you will make more power than a gen 4. Or you can go the forced induction way and make lots more.

 

[TorontoACR]

I have not been on for a while due to some financial problems, but I am back and do love the performance of the new Viper ACR but am trying to decide whether to just buy a new ACR or upgrade what I have as i dont like that almost all cars including the new ACR are vastly superior in performance on a track. Any suggestions

 

[Cop Magnet]

Is the question how to get the same power as the GenIV? The answers are listed above. It can be done.
Or is the question what parts are interchangeable? The answer is basically none (Bob, you left out block and heads--the majority of the motor). You cannot bolt on any standard GenIV parts to get more HP out of your GenII.
Also, there is no "ACR motor". They are the same in all GenIV's.

Good luck!

 

[TorontoACR]

Is the question how to get the same power as the GenIV? The answers are listed above. It can be done.
Or is the question what parts are interchangeable? The answer is basically none (Bob, you left out block and heads--the majority of the motor). You cannot bolt on any standard GenIV parts to get more HP out of your GenII.
Also, there is no "ACR motor". They are the same in all GenIV's.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply guys. It sounds from what you guys said that if i bolt on heads to take my gen II 2002 ACR to the 700HP level it still wont match a newer Gen IV car having the same bolt on heads to still have more power than my car. Is that right?

 

[SquadX]

No, if you do after market heads (strykers) or have your heads porter by Greg good then you will make the same power as the 2009 viper and save alotof money. Or you can do a supercharger set up (used roe as they no longer make them or Paxton) and make more power then the 2009 and if you stay with stock boost you do not have to upgrade the engine internals.

If you prefer the look of the srt over the gts and are willing to pay for that then get the 2009.
If you want the fastest road course viper then buy an 2009 acr as the cost to turn your gts into a car capable of running faster times around a road course then the 2009 acrwill cost an arm and a leg if it's even possible.
In conclusion: best road course viper 2009 acr
Head/cam or supercharger to make more power then an 2009 and alot cheaper.

Hope the cleared things up.

 

[RTTTTed]

The two biggest improvements from the new engine are the camshaft and the cylinder heads. The heart of the new engine is a new active camshaft. It is two pieces and can adjust camshaft overlap while running. It works by having special oil ports drilled in the block. You would need to replace the block, camshaft, and find software to run it. Not a cost effective modification. Second is the cylinder heads, from what i know the newer heads will not bolt up to the older engine. I have heard of companys working on kits but have not seen one yet.

It would be cheaper to upgrade you're engine with aftermarket parts.

Garrett

The SRT Engineers reported that the award winning "Cam in a cam" technology has zero performance increase and is an emmissions/idle misfire modification with no improvement in horsepower. The cam-in-cam does lower torque however. It also required a massive upgrade to the ECU.

The SRT Engineers also stated that the bore and stroke was changed to use the higher quality SRT8 rods and pistons for greater reliability and strength.

A basic Roe supercharger kit will upgrade past the Gen 4 engine performance (550rwhp/498tq) and should make about 570-590rwtq and about 550rwhp. on a stock Gen 2. I'd recommend changing the factory Cats and upgrade the Catback exhaust as well. My 98GTS had catback, Hiflows, w/m inj. and the Roe Racing 8# supercharger with stock everything else - it made 598rwhp/644rwtq! That is equivalent to over 673bhp/734rwtq.

Cost for RR supercharger kit (includes Vec3) is about $7500.

Ted

 

[RTTTTed]

No, if you do after market heads (strykers) or have your heads porter by Greg good then you will make the same power as the 2009 viper and save alotof money. Or you can do a supercharger set up (used roe as they no longer make them or Paxton) and make more power then the 2009 and if you stay with stock boost you do not have to upgrade the engine internals.

If you prefer the look of the srt over the gts and are willing to pay for that then get the 2009.
If you want the fastest road course viper then buy an 2009 acr as the cost to turn your gts into a car capable of running faster times around a road course then the 2009 acrwill cost an arm and a leg if it's even possible.
In conclusion: best road course viper 2009 acr
Head/cam or supercharger to make more power then an 2009 and alot cheaper.

Hope the cleared things up.

"Quit making them"??????????

Here's the link to purchase your Gen1 or Gen 2 Roe Racing supercharger NEW ... Superchargers - Roe Racing

Sean did say that he does not have the Gen3 sc available yet.

Ted

 

[GR8_ASP]

Note there is no such thing as an ACR motor. All engines in all years have been identical. The only differences was GT/2 and ACR had smooth inlet tubes in the 1998 - 2002 time frame.

 

[2001 GTS]

Go with a GOOD set of heads and a custom grind cam and you will be in the same power range.

 

[99VPRGTS]

Thanks for the reply guys. It sounds from what you guys said that if i bolt on heads to take my gen II 2002 ACR to the 700HP level it still wont match a newer Gen IV car having the same bolt on heads to still have more power than my car. Is that right?

If you want to equal/exceed the same performance as a new ACR, then you will need a few things.

- Moton suspension
- Functional front splitter
- Functional rear wing
- Big brake kit
- Head/cam/tuning
- All accompying boltons (headers, catback, CAI, etc)
- Perhaps some bigger diameter rims (a 19/19 or 18/19 combo)

If you do all of this you will definately have more power than the ACR. As far as being able to handle as well...thats up to you as a driver but with those other mods, you should be close to the same handling characteristics.

If money really isn't an object, you could have the motor bullet proofed (forged) and slap a supercharger or TT on there but a head/cam/bolton/tuned Gen II will have more than enough power to **** a stock 2009 ACR in a straight line.

 

[99VPRGTS]

"Quit making them"??????????

Here's the link to purchase your Gen1 or Gen 2 Roe Racing supercharger NEW ... Superchargers - Roe Racing

Sean did say that he does not have the Gen3 sc available yet.

Ted

It says on his website that they are out of stock and testing a new model. Is this bad info cause I thought they stopped making them as well.

 

[RTTTTed]

Thanks for the reply guys. It sounds from what you guys said that if i bolt on heads to take my gen II 2002 ACR to the 700HP level it still wont match a newer Gen IV car having the same bolt on heads to still have more power than my car. Is that right?

No. Heads 50hp, cam 50hp, headers and exhaust 25hp, Honing intake 20hp, Vipair of other intake system improvement 20hp, smooth tubes 10hp. n/a can make 600hp with heads, cam, boltons etc., but most supercharge as it's much cheaper. 700rwhp is not cheap.

Stock Gen 2 dyno's about 415rwhp whereas a Gen4 dynos around 550rwhp. Gen 2s are easily modified whereas Gen 4 ECUs are not "CRACKED" yet. So other than headers/exhaust mods to the Gen4 are not available without going to an aftermarket ECU system (costing $3,000 and up).

Ted

I sent Sean Roe an email mentioning this thread, but he hasn't repsonded yet.

 

[plumcrazy]

sean said he wasnt going to be making the S/C anymore.

 

[CitySnake]

more than enough power to **** a stock 2009 ACR in a straight line.

And there lies the rub.

Without costing more when you're finally done, you may never get a GEN 2 (2002) to handle like a Gen 4 ACR.

 

[Alexarz]

And there lies the rub.

Without costing more when you're finally done, you may never get a GEN 2 (2002) to handle like a Gen 4 ACR.

Go tell that to Disturbed, whose GTS walloped every new Viper in it's path before he bought it. While the new ACR sets new heights for a stock production car, lets be realistic. An Oreca GTS would blow away a comp coupe. A comp coupe beats an ACR by a good 4 seconds a lap or more. Anybody can modify a GTS to beat the piss out of any production car, including a Gen 4 ACR. That's not to say that an ACR cannot be modified as well.

 

[99VPRGTS]

Go tell that to Disturbed, whose GTS walloped every new Viper in it's path before he bought it. While the new ACR sets new heights for a stock production car, lets be realistic. An Oreca GTS would blow away a comp coupe. A comp coupe beats an ACR by a good 4 seconds a lap or more. Anybody can modify a GTS to beat the piss out of any production car, including a Gen 4 ACR. That's not to say that an ACR cannot be modified as well.

If you go back and re-read the thread, it wasn't about any of that. The guy just wanted his car to perform like a new ACR and was wondering what it took to get his engine there.

Besides, it all comes down to driver experience. Those cars you are speaking of and your "guessing game" of the times are assuming that all drivers are of the exact same skill. If you have a experienced driver in a bone stock GTS and a driver that doesn't know what he's doing in a 2009 ACR...the GTS is going to win all day.

 

[CitySnake]

And there lies the rub.

Without costing more when you're finally done, you may never get a GEN 2 (2002) to handle like a Gen 4 ACR.

Go tell that to Disturbed, whose GTS walloped every new Viper in it's path before he bought it. While the new ACR sets new heights for a stock production car, lets be realistic. An Oreca GTS would blow away a comp coupe. A comp coupe beats an ACR by a good 4 seconds a lap or more. Anybody can modify a GTS to beat the piss out of any production car, including a Gen 4 ACR. That's not to say that an ACR cannot be modified as well.

Did you notice the words "Without costing more when you're finally done"? How much do you think you would have into your Gen 2 to have it become an "Oreca GTS"...that would have to remain street legal mind you?

I still stand by my comment.

 

[TorontoACR]

Go tell that to Disturbed, whose GTS walloped every new Viper in it's path before he bought it. While the new ACR sets new heights for a stock production car, lets be realistic. An Oreca GTS would blow away a comp coupe. A comp coupe beats an ACR by a good 4 seconds a lap or more. Anybody can modify a GTS to beat the piss out of any production car, including a Gen 4 ACR. That's not to say that an ACR cannot be modified as well.

yes i want my 2002 ACR to go as fast and handle as fast as the new ACR without having to spend the same amount of money as buying a new ACR. It sounds like power wise it can be done with heads, cam, intake etc. But handling wise can it be done with the old Gen II body style

 

[99VPRGTS]

Thats a good question toronto. Like I said, you are going to need a really good coil-over setup, most people that road race get the moton (spelling?), then you will need a front splitter and a rear wing that is fully functional. Finally, you will need to upgrade to a big brake kit. I don't know how serious you are into racing like that but for just driving around town, you could get away with the above handling mods minus the splitter and wing (personally I hate the way wings look on a GTS and, unless you are an avid road racer, it's not going to make much difference on the street).

 

[CitySnake]

yes i want my 2002 ACR to go as fast and handle as fast as the new ACR without having to spend the same amount of money as buying a new ACR. It sounds like power wise it can be done with heads, cam, intake etc. But handling wise can it be done with the old Gen II body style

First off, I'm a bit confused as to your budget. What are you using as the value for your 2002 ACR vs. the value of a new 2009 ACR. Would the difference leave us with $50,000 to upgrade?

There is so much more involved here than just buying and installing all the aftermarket upgrade parts. As you mention, HP is easier than aerodynamics and handling. Even after you spend $50,000 in upgrades, you will still need a great deal of engine tuning and even more troublesome, hours and hours to test, tune and tweak all the new suspension components. Everything has to work together.

Are you going to use a wind tunnel to insure the high speed stability of the splitter and wing? Are you going to have a track to test your upgraded Gen 2 after each suspension tweak?

Is everyone forgetting all the work and effort that went into the design of the Gen 4 ACR (and that was beyond the work that went into the Gen 3...let alone a Gen 2).

Sorry, but you may get awful close after all that cash, but you'll still have an overpriced, design outdated (yet better looking) 7 year old Viper that's far less proven. The new ACR is even covered (to some extent) by a factory warranty. What kind of repairs are you prepared to underwrite with your 7 year old partially rebuilt ACR?

Again, I'm in no way suggesting you don't do what you please with your '02 ACR. I'm just suggesting that your expectations are somewhat unreasonable. The new ACR is far from an upgraded Gen 2. It's a different motorcar!

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

I think the one thing to ask is when you mention taking it to the track, do you mean dragstrip or roadcourse. If you are talking about taking the car to various road courses , then absolutely skip the Supercharger. Even though we have done well over 150 Supercharger applications, for track use , I would absolutely tell you to stay naturally aspirated. You frankly will spend alot of money to get towards a new ACRs specs, and for my money I would suggest just getting a new beast. Your ACR can be very competent by upgrading with Belanger headers, catback, some suspension mods , a effective brake ducting kit, etc. , but even at that you will spend some serious Canadian Coin.

Right now it is getting hard to find stock Gen IIs, so your car may be worth more in trade going that route. I would imagine there are not alot of older ACRs in Canada , so you may have a great market to work with there.

Best of luck.

 

[Alexarz]

yes i want my 2002 ACR to go as fast and handle as fast as the new ACR without having to spend the same amount of money as buying a new ACR. It sounds like power wise it can be done with heads, cam, intake etc. But handling wise can it be done with the old Gen II body style

Disturbed's GTS weighs a whole lot lighter than a Gen 4 ACR (about 400 pounds), is set up with moton shocks (better than stock ACR shocks) front splitter, wing, dry sump oiling system, etc. I'm not sure if the aerodynamics are on par with an ACR but it won Viper events against Gen 4 Vipers and I am sure it would wallop an ACR on a road course. The point is, you can definitely exceed Gen 4 ACR performance but it will take some mods and sacrifices. Keep in mind that building a car can be far more rewarding than merely buying one.