Differences between Gen III and IV

[Homie]

I was always under the impression that the differences between a Gen III and IV were pretty minor--engine tweaks mainly.

However, I've seen several on the forum talk about them almost as if they are radically different cars.

Can anyone give me a brief summary of what the differences are? I know at some point the Viper went from 500hp to 600hp so that is obviously one difference.

Thanks!

 

[Steve-Indy]

I MY opinion, Gen IV is the best Viper yet... more power, better tranny, more predictable differential, along with a few other things...including it's more complex systems that are a joy to see in action.

The Gen III owner who drives a new Gen IV often remarks that(by comparison) the IV has "no low end grunt" because the power band is higher in the rpm range. A Gen IV turns on like a bandit at 3800 rpm...but feels much less "torquey" at 1600 rpm. Compare the posted stock dyno nunbers of a III and IV and you will see what I'm trying to describe.

Also, in MY opinion, because of the power band shift and diff. changes, a new Viper driver is somewhat less likely to kill himself (I did say HIM-self rather than HER-self intentionally!!!) leaving one's own driveway or entering the freeway.

While I truly enjoy driving all Generations of Vipers, Gen IV is at the top-of-the-list...noting also, that there are still some real deals around on NEW 08's...so good that one may indeed feel like a thief on the drive home!!!

 

[Venomiss]

Try the search and pop in year differences. Many pages of threads to read for you.

Like this one.
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...2008-any-differences-worth-hearing-about.html

You can also call any of the big Viper dealers that are here and ask away.

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

Another..

http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...g-gen3-vert-then-coupe-now-thinking-gen4.html

 

[Hamrhead]

Had an '06 Coupe and traded up for an '08 Coupe.

The one thing that bugs me, and it is minor, is the Throttle-By-Wire. Just takes some getting used to.

The GenIV rides smoother, shifts better, and runs much stronger!

 

[Steve-Indy]

Homie, do follow the link above that Mary kindly provided...she REALLY knows her way around this board!!!

Here is another inportant discussion...look for the post by "Viperay" and my answers and dyno links.

 

[Homie]

Thanks, I looked at both links. Question. I saw this statement:

"Also consider what you plan to do with it. If you EVER may want 750+ horsepower, stick with 03-06. 08-09 cars are basically capped at a certain power level due to computer complexity & engine changes. Also, the price difference between the two will get your foot in the door with the aftermarket... which can supply you with MUCH better parts than even what the 08-09 comes with drivetrain wise. the ~20K difference will easily build you a 03-06 car with an 08+ drivetrain, a better Quaife diff, supercharged with more power, and a body that looks identical. "


I saw a few other comments to that effect---if you are going to mod heavily go with Gen III if not go with Gen IV.

Is that a pretty accurate statement? I would definately be modding pretty *********.

Thanks!

 

[Steve-Indy]

You are correct about the relative complexity of the stock Gen IV's...logically, making them more complex/expensive to mod.

Certainly, we have all seen some nicely done modded Gen III's...700 hp ranges and more.

Pick your platform to suit your future plans and budget.

 

[Paul Hawker]

One thing to consider in a post of this nature, is that the Viper experience runs deep to the core.

From the first 400 hp versions in 92 to the latest 600 hp models, the experience of driving any of the Vipers is evidence of the same Viper DNA!

Having a large displacement, high torque V-10 engine mounted in the front of the car, behind the front axles (front/mid engine if you will) hooked up to a beefey 6 speed manual transmission, and hooked to a race bred independent rear suspension with rear drive summarizes the Viper platform.

They all share basic hand formed rigid chassis with welded and bonded substructures to provide an extremely solid frame on which to bolt the suspension, brakes and wheels.

All vipers run on steam roller Michelin (state of the art for each model) tires, and even share the same basic 29 lbs recommended pressure.

From this basic structure each individual owner is free to choose which specific model is right for him, then has the option to modify the cars further to hone the performance envelope to suit him.

I never understood those that brag that their Viper is the best. It may be the best for that person, but not for the guy driving the Viper in the next lane.

Hope on this Easter everybody will enjoy the Viper they own, and experience the joy of the Viper Ownership Experience.

Get out and drive today.

 

[Twister]

Id go with a gen4 no questions asked..Gen4 with very basic bolt ons is 600 rwhp and will run 10.6 at 135 mph with the right driver...11.0 at 132 mph with an average driver...

You'll NEED 700 rwhp with a paxtoned 2003-2006 to achieve the same results..Only the NA power is a bit more reliable

 

[Viperless]

Had an '06 Coupe and traded up for an '08 Coupe.

The one thing that bugs me, and it is minor, is the Throttle-By-Wire. Just takes some getting used to.

The GenIV rides smoother, shifts better, and runs much stronger!

On a scale from 1 to 10, The Gen 4 is a throttle cable away from scoring a 10.

 

[Homie]

Thanks all.

Are the engine internals essentially the same between Gen III and IV? Are they all forget or cast, or is it like the Gen IIs where there are some forged and some cast years?

 

[PaViper]

On a scale from 1 to 10, The Gen 4 is a throttle cable away from scoring a 10.

AMEN, I traded my 06 which I loved for an 08, I love all the differences over the 06 EXCEPT for the drive by wire. To me there is nothing like the direct cable connection. With a cable you always know exactly what you are getting, you don't have to guess if you are getting full throttlle or etc.

 

[Paul Hawker]

I believe the Gen IV engine uses the cast pistons from the SRT Hemi V-8. These were found to be superior to the pistons used in the Gen III.

The ACR X uses special forged pistons due to its intended extensive track use.

An interesting side note, is that Gen IV engines get better fuel economy at cruise than the previous engines, even with almost 100 hp more.

Don't believe that SRT went to throttle by wire on their own choice. It is the only way to meet the newest federal mandates. Viper guys try to keep things simple and straight forward if they have the choice..

Still think the best Viper is the one you drive the most : >)

 

[ScrewDrvr]

Id go with a gen4 no questions asked..Gen4 with very basic bolt ons is 600 rwhp and will run 10.6 at 135 mph with the right driver...11.0 at 132 mph with an average driver...

You'll NEED 700 rwhp with a paxtoned 2003-2006 to achieve the same results..Only the NA power is a bit more reliable

so you're saying a 600rwhp gen4 is just as fast as a 700rwhp gen 3?

 

[Paul Hawker]

He might be right in saying that a naturally aspirated 600 hp Gen IV would be faster on a longer road course than a supercharged 700 hp gen III. (especially on a hot day).

Might be the same on a strip if they both ran stock tires.

 

[David Pintaric]

Id go with a gen4 no questions asked..Gen4 with very basic bolt ons is 600 rwhp and will run 10.6 at 135 mph with the right driver...11.0 at 132 mph with an average driver...

You'll NEED 700 rwhp with a paxtoned 2003-2006 to achieve the same results..Only the NA power is a bit more reliable

Why would you need 100 more HP in the same chassis to achieve the same results?

 

[Twister]

Good question and the awnswer is simple..

NA power is ALWAYS better than SC power..ESPECIALLY centrifugical (snail shaped ) superchargers...

A roots style supercharger such as the ROE can usually give a NA engine a run for it's money..

Ive had a few supercharged cars and a few bolt on head and cam cars..I can say without a doubt that the NA cars are faster HP for HP..And MUCH more reliable....


In my humble opinion..

A 2003 SRT10 Viper with heads/cam and bolt ons that hits 600 rwhp on a dyno will run 132-135 mph in the 1/4 mile.

A 2003 SRT10 Viper with a snail type supercharger such as the paxton that hits 600 rwhp on the dyno will run 127-130 mph in the 1/4 mile.

A 2003 SRT10 Viper with a Twin Turbo set on wastegate with 600 rwhp will run 130-133 mph in the 1/4 mile.

A 2003 SRT10 Viper with a hypothetical roots style blower (ROE SYLE) that hit 600 rwhp on the dyno would run 131-134 mph in the 1/4 mile..


Simply put the NA power is just so INSTANT...

The snail type (paxton) will have less power in the lower rpm's but really scream in the upper rpm's...

The TT will REALLY scream in the upper rpm's but have some inavoidable lag in the lower rpm's..

The roots stle (ROE style) will have tremendous power down low and mid range but start to fall off in power towards the upper rpm's (much like a naturally asperated engine)



So I stand beside my opinion of a gen3 srt10 needing 700 rwhp to run the same numbers as a bolt on 600 rwhp Gen4..Also if you do a search you will see that most 650-700 rwhp Paxtons are indeed running 132-135 mph in the 1/4..eXACTLY the same as the 600 rwhp Gen4's...

The differance is that the Gen4 can run that number over and over agin where the gen3 paxtoned would get heat soaked and loose a lil power each run...

This is all based on the 1/4 mile..On a closed circuit with both cars starting at 50 mph and the first car to hit 160 mph wins then yes the top end power of the snail shaped paxton srt10 would beat the 600 rwhp gen4

 

[VENUM INJECTION]

I agree with most of the above. I own a Gen IV which is my first Viper and I love it. I do know that this site has mentioned a succesful twin turbo package for an 08. I am sure it was expensive, and they were able to figure out the new complexes of the 08.

 

[troublemaker]

I'm glad this thread came up, I've been trying to figure out if the Gen IV is worth the extra $ as you can find good deals on Gen IIIs right now.

 

[swexlin]

I'm glad this thread came up, I've been trying to figure out if the Gen IV is worth the extra $ as you can find good deals on Gen IIIs right now.

I'm in the exact same predicament. Good thread.

 

[David Pintaric]

But can a Gen 3 motor be made more powerful than a Gen 4 if you didn't limit yourself to "bolt-on" mods, but kept it normally aspirated?

 

[Twister]

But can a Gen 3 motor be made more powerful than a Gen 4 if you didn't limit yourself to "bolt-on" mods, but kept it normally aspirated?

Actually a gen3 with the following..

KN air intake
Arrow roller rockers
exhaust
no cats
throttle body
light weight fly wheel
underdrive pulley
headers
SCT tune

can hit the 520-535 rwhp range...while a stock gen 4 is typical in the 535-555 rwhp range

So just bolt ons can get you very close...But by the time you buy all those bolt ons and have them installed you have added another 10K to the purchase price of your gen3..And STILL have a lil less power than the gen4..

Do all the above and a mild head and cam and your talking about 600 PLUS rwhp..

My goal is to do all the bolt ons mentioned above. And then have my stock heads and manifold ported by greg good Heads..

Should give a gen 4 with a few bolt ons a good run...

 

[Paul Hawker]

At these power levels this question is mute.

Over 600 hp the engine can overwhelm the traction available.

Adding additional hp will add little additional accelleration in the lower gears.

More depends on the smoothness of the torque curve to control overpowering the tires.

 

[GTS-R 001]

But can a Gen 3 motor be made more powerful than a Gen 4 if you didn't limit yourself to "bolt-on" mods, but kept it normally aspirated?

My Gen 2 motor that I had built by Exotic engines made well over 600 HP naturally aspirated with a stock ECU and 9.0 to 1 compression, if I had asked for the higher compression that the Gen 4 is running and then had it tuned to run NA it would have easily made 650 - 670 + HP, that engine was a 505 CU inch build but was a gen 2, a Gen 3 should be better yet, but not by huge amounts

 

[Twister]

At these power levels this question is mute.

Over 600 hp the engine can overwhelm the traction available.

Adding additional hp will add little additional accelleration in the lower gears.

More depends on the smoothness of the torque curve to control overpowering the tires.

and see thats just it..In all actuality the gen3 srt10 with a paxton at say 650 rwhp is the car that would be very easy to drive at cruising speeds and the power that dosent really come into effect till the higher rpm's would also be much easier to control during spirited blast....Their really is no perfect solution..My buddy had a 550 rwhp ROE GTS and we did a few spirited blast and was was scared to get on it at 70 mph in second gear because everytime he did he blew the tires loose

 

[David Pintaric]

Actually a gen3 with the following..

KN air intake
Arrow roller rockers
exhaust
no cats
throttle body
light weight fly wheel
underdrive pulley
headers
SCT tune

can hit the 520-535 rwhp range...while a stock gen 4 is typical in the 535-555 rwhp range

So just bolt ons can get you very close...But by the time you buy all those bolt ons and have them installed you have added another 10K to the purchase price of your gen3..And STILL have a lil less power than the gen4..

Do all the above and a mild head and cam and your talking about 600 PLUS rwhp..

My goal is to do all the bolt ons mentioned above. And then have my stock heads and manifold ported by greg good Heads..

Should give a gen 4 with a few bolt ons a good run...

What I am asking (and I am not trying to be a **** about this, so please don't take it wrong) is can the Gen 4's superior characteristics be built into a Gen 3 motor? What are the big ones? Compression? The answer to that is "yes." Camshaft? "yes." Intake? "Yes." Cylinder heads? "yes" Trans and diff? "yes"

Additional cost over and above the acquisition cost of a Gen 3? Irrelevent with what I am doing.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Get the Gen IV, let's make a deal!!!!

2008 SRT-10 Convertible ( Blue w/ White Stripes) - ViperClub Classifieds

 

[Twister]

What I am asking (and I am not trying to be a **** about this, so please don't take it wrong) is can the Gen 4's superior characteristics be built into a Gen 3 motor? What are the big ones? Compression? The answer to that is "yes." Camshaft? "yes." Intake? "Yes." Cylinder heads? "yes" Trans and diff? "yes"

Additional cost over and above the acquisition cost of a Gen 3? Irrelevent with what I am doing.

OK...I see what your saying....But my knowledge is very limited...I know for sure on the trans and diff...And thats about it.

 

[Viper Specialty]

It all depends on what you are doing.

Is the Gen-4 a better platform for ANYTHING? YES. However, in certain configurations it is cost prohibitive.

If you are looking for NA power: Go Gen-4.

If you are looking to bolt on an SC: Go Gen-3

If you are looking to bolt on TT's [Small Kit, little to no engine work]: Go Gen-3

If you are looking to build a 1250+ Horsepower TT [Large Kit, fully built engine and drivetrain]: Go Gen-4


The Gen-4 is going to do everything better than a Gen-3 drivetrain wise, but the Gen-4 requires you to swallow a 10-15K Engine Management System to build it for Forced Induction, and also the changing of a few pretty expensive internal engine components at high power levels. If you can work that kind of money into your build -and the HUGE builds can- then going Gen-4 is the right move. [Or, at that point you can opt to swap a Gen-4 drivetrain into a Gen-3... aftermarket EMS doesnt care what engine it is controlling. It may end up being cheaper to do this, and have the same result as actually changing cars]