Diminishing returns of huge horsey power?

[Zan186]

I am pondering what I am going to do to my lightly modded viper in the next 2 years. 2002 FE with Forged pistons, roller rockers, 708 cam, Eldebrock headers, Corsa and Vec2 controler on board.
I am thinking of going to a side mounted Twin Turbo because I dont want to do heavy alterations to the vehicle. Cutting the Core support is bad enough but after finding out that you could reverse it I was ok with it. (big job but can be done).

I am mostly interested in 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile. I will be running on DOT tires, not slicks, although I might get some slicks for fun once in a blue moon. At what point does the horsepower become just bragging rights and lack the abiltiy to put down on the road.
I am guessing that once you are close to 800 rwhp on DOT you are about as fast as those tires can handle. I believe that maybe 1000 rwhp for slicks. After that I dont see extra horsey's really helping, other than to spin the wheels.

Goals? I would like my car to be able to break under 10 seconds. 9.9999 would be ideal lol! Considered the Roe Supercharger but I dont want to run methanol so that would leave me with only a 6.5 pully. I am guessing hp would be around 600rwhp. Not sure if that would break the 10s barrier. The side mount TT would give me around 900 rwhp (guessing) and I believe that would me more than enough to get under 10 seconds.

 

[99 R/T 10]

900RWHP will get you into the 9's. 600-650 RWHP will get high 10's.

 

[ViperJohn]

If you have forged pistons, as you state, you can run higher than a 6.5 lb pulley.

 

[GTS Bruce]

Look at it this way.A cup car(3500 lbs 800HP) will spin the rear tires which are slicks comeing off of a corner on a short track.3500 lbs,800 HP,slicks and you must modulate the throttle.Subtract at least 100 HP for street tires.

 

[Wicked]

I have just over 650rwhp, running the new PS2's @24#s, and I can't get traction on the street. It's been slightly chilly here. But I tried a 70mph roll when it was 63 degrees outside and it blew the tires right off. I'm hoping above 70degrees, I'll get more traction, but we'll see I guess.

Was out at the local street races a few nights ago when I tried that roll (not racing, just by myself to check traction). That same night there was a Porshe GT2 with 700+ rwhp and he was doing good, pretty much beat everybody he raced. However, his engine is in the back of the car, so I'm sure he was getting MUCH better traction then the Corvettes, Supra's and the other Viper that was out there. All high powered cars 700+ rwhp, for all the ones out that night.

I think a lot has to do with gearing and maybe the RPM band. My business partner has a bone stock 07 Z06 and I swear he's not even close to being able to drive his car, and I can't beat him on the street from a 40mph roll. I burn 1st, stop his pull in 2nd, pull back up to him in 3rd, then it's done. If I try to start in 2nd at 40mph he pulls so hard, there is no catching him. I've tried pacing him in 1st and that doesn't work, because even if I try to just stay next to him, the car wants to break traction (has to be because of the torque) He generally also uses traction control, which I'm sure helps him. However, I told him to take it off with me in the car and it hooks just fine with out it.

Trust me, it's not my driving either. I don't know a single person that can drive a stick better then me. He is also a rookie when it comes to sticks, first stick car and really learning how to drive it good. His best past in his Z06 is a 11.8@120 same day I ran 11.2@129 (not the best track day). My car has more power in it too, getting a lot of belt slip and was really humid and warm that day i raced.

Kinda in the same boat as you. I'd love nothing more then to pull the motor, convert to twin turbo's and push for 1k rwhp, but if I can't plant the power, what's the point? I refuse to go with 18" rims and they don't make a 19" Drag radial.

Jason

 

[Landman]

I thought they were supposed to be coming out with a 19 inch drag radial. GTS Bruce, if you still have 18's, put on some NITTO555 Drag radials and you'll have no trouble. Make sure you drive around a bit to put some heat into your tires on a cooler day, but they will handle 800rwhp in a roll. They don't throw stones up, but are sticky enough to pull 1.5X 60' times.
Go turbo!

 

[Viper Specialty]

Hi Zan186,

I just sent you a PM... give me a ring sometime, I am not too far from you.

 

[PatentLaw]

You all bring up a very important point. It may be one of the most important reasons that the horsepower wars will sort of top out for American cars with large engines unless some breakthroughs occur.

Ferrari solves the planting problem by making high horsepower (at high RPMs)-low torque thereby allowing the car to hook up and then progressively planting the power. The transmissions are superior in placing the power down. The engines also rev quicker due to their design. All of these minor points add up to 1/4 mile time savings. If the Viper is to excel in the 1/4 mile times, there must be harder thought in efficiently using the power of the engine.

If the power can be used efficiently in American cars, exotics like the Ferrari will suffer in sales and will be seen as costly items with insufficient performance in comparison.

0-60 times are becoming meaningless and the more telling number is the 1/4 mile.

 

[GTS Bruce]

Sorry landman.I'm on PS-2's.Set up for spirited driving with curves.Not into the point and squirt straight stuff. GTS Bruce

 

[Landman]

Sorry GTS Bruce, I was trying to help Zan186 with the original post.

 

[GTS Bruce]

Ah yesss.... that drag strip stuff.I have gone to some viper drag racing sessions out of curiosity.Anyone with TT,SC or nitrous and oem street tires was in reality no faster than a stock car on oem.The guys on slicks were a different story!No doubt there are some very sticky DOT tires though not actualy a racing slick that will hook up for the all important launch. GTS Bruce