Does my set up=dyno numbers

[slitherv10]

Did my very first dyno run yesterday and got these numbers with my set up. Does anyone else have this set up and get different numbers? Should I have not had better numbers with this set up? Or is this right. I have seen other threads by guys with nothing done,bone stock,do these numbers. I have not had a tune done with this set up. Will that make a difference ? If so, by how much. Temperature outside was about 53-54F and altitude is @250ft or 76m above see level.

I have Vipair cold air intake, K&n filters, smooth tubes, Belanger headers, no cats, Borla exhaust, 3:55 gears with 20inch wheels on the rear , Mopar Performance Computer, and.....blue and white striped car ( was told that color conbo adds 50 rwhp )

This is what I got on 2 pulls......

421 Hp ...... 460 ftlbs

425 Hp ...... 466 ftlbs

 

[KingSnake97]

your missing about 25hp.

lm at 442wrhp @ 494wrtq.
Acrx headers no cats vec2 k n filter
dynoed in approx. 107deg.

 

[slitherv10]

your missing about 25hp.

lm at 442wrhp @ 494wrtq.
Acrx headers no cats vec2 k n filter
dynoed in approx. 107deg.

Could it be that i should tune it?...that should get me 25 hp no?

 

[dave6666]

A Vipair, or any other cold air intake, does virtually nothing for you on a dyno. The car has to be moving down the road for that devise to channel cold air into the engine.

With filters, tubes, Belanger headers high flow cats Magnaflow bullets 3" side exhaust, SCT email tune, I put down 446.

It sounds like you are a little low.

Also, gears and tires really don't play into dyno numbers either that much. A dyno is a measurement of power, not a measurement of how fast that power develops. Sort of ...

Also too, some urban legends say that removing the cats actually reduces hp due to lack of back pressure. Some is needed unless your entire build was tailored to a completely unrestricted exhaust. May or may not be important in your case, but safe to say that your engine in still near stock form, has not been tailored to run a completely unrestricted exhaust.

 

[dave6666]

Could it be that i should tune it?...that should get me 25 hp no?

I got nothing near that out of my SCT tune. I think sometimes people are making these claims on the butt dyno, not a real dyno.

 

[slitherv10]

I got nothing near that out of my SCT tune. I think sometimes people are making these claims on the butt dyno, not a real dyno.

Gotcha...but, I still feel with a good tune with my set up, I should still be able to squeeze out some more numbers. I still believe that dyno numbers mean little and trap speeds mean everything,but, It still does show you how well your engine is developed and how efficient its running with the additions.

Might need to call one of the tuners and get this thing tuned and go from there.

 

[plumcrazy]

the 355's and 20" wheels hurt your numbers. you are fine.

 

[alwayscode390]

I run 3.73's and 20"s ... and have pretty much the same setup you have minus the headers.

I THINK I have a tune ... because the A/F ratios on the dyno were good for having mods, but I am not sure ( previous owner did the mods )

I put down 425 hp / 460 tq

Whats the "mopar performance computer" you are talking about? Seems like the headers should have given you something , but you may have more miles than me.

How many miles are on the car? ---

 

[dave6666]

Belangers are not known for great hp numbers on the Gen 2.

 

[KingSnake97]

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without nos

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with nos

 

[Next Phase]

I put down 425 rwhp / 475 rwtq w/ smooth tubes and 20'' wheels. I haven't dynoed after the headers / high flow cats.

The type of dyno will also make a difference. A Mustang dyno typically shows lower numbers than a Dynojet.

Temperature and correction factor will also make a difference in your numbers.

 

[AZMotorgod]

My car had an Arrow warranty rebuild, and their engine dyno put it at 500 hp/ 560 tq.

In the car I am at @ 430 rwhp, and 500 rwtq, don't remember the temp., with only smooth tubes, K&N filters, and rear muffler delete.

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[Jack B]

Belangers are not known for great hp numbers on the Gen 2.

I slightly disagree with that, early on, very few set ups did better, my car was over 460 with Balengers and 1.7 rockers. His hp diff could be as simple as tune, engine issues or the dyno itself.

 

[KingSnake97]

All he needs is a good tune. That should cover it. Hes not that far off. Each car is like a snow flake no two are the same!

 

[CSXT802]

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/654777-Going-to-dyno-the-car-tomorrow.

 

[ElevatortecGTS]

I was also at the dyno day. my numbers 419 rwhp and 455 rwtq cats removed, Mopar exhaust and a tune.. completely stock engine no headers

 

[KingSnake97]

headers and a new tune.... new stig!

 

[BlackOutBoxing]

After my engine was done it felt strong! I had chris from dc email tunes to my dyno guy. Car was only making 450 to the wheels which was low for all my mods. Felt fast to me tho. 1st pull before sct tune was 450 2nd pull after 1st tune was 550! Ended up just shy of 600 to the wheels. All motor! I did alot so maybe when it was tuned right i gained more too. But i would recomend a tune. All factory cars run to rich to protect them from being too lean! Theres a happy in between. Trust me. My pipes used to be jet black in a day of driving. Now thy gradually get black. An air fuel gauge is a great tool. Greg good told me to get one so i did. I always know how my car is running. It answers alot of questionsons and doubts!

 

[96GTS]

I put down 438 at the wheels with just K&N filters, tubes, '98 exhaust manifolds, Random Tech high flow cats and 3" Borla cat back exhaust.

 

[speedracervr4]

OP, What did your A/F readings look like? It was said earlier that different dynos will give different numbers. Buying an SCT will probably help, but I wouldn't expect any more than 20-30hp out of it if that.

 

[slitherv10]

OP, What did your A/F readings look like? It was said earlier that different dynos will give different numbers. Buying an SCT will probably help, but I wouldn't expect any more than 20-30hp out of it if that.

My A/F readings were around 13-13.5 . The dyno was a dynojet and the shop was a Mustang shop.

I will post the dyno sheet I got later today.

It was quite cold out that morning, so, temp factors would be on my side. I can understand if it was like 110 outside but, that was not the case and should not play a factor into the numbers. Infact, that should hvae helped the numbers if anything.

Blackoutboxing...those are very nice numbers you got after the tune...the extra mods you have probably brought those numbers that high ofcourse.



Dave666, I was told that Belangers worked better for the Gen 2's than the Gen 3's. That was Lou himself stating that to me when I talked to him.
I was later told by another member that Belangers shine in the midrange Rpms but not up in the higher range. True or not, unfortunatly I never dynoed the car beofre and after I installed them.

As far as cat deletes go and rumours of backpressure loss and thus hp loss, not sure, have not heard about that myself before. I was told by reputable sources that the high flow cats are terrible for performance and flow. that was stated from manufactures of the products. Go figure. Thus I decided to stay away from them.

I am hoping with a nice tune from the reputables here that, once some of the mods I have done have been taken into account, the Hp numbers will be more correct.
Again, as I read in another thread......Dyno numbers are not the end all . Trap speeds in the quarters is what we should be trying to achieve.

A nice supercharger or twin turbo system would solve my problem.......

 

[dave6666]

The info I have on Belangers not being the *best* choice for hp gains is just an accumulation of opinions etc. There are several makes of headers for the Gen 2; M&M, TNT, Edelbrock. As is being said, there may be a sweet spot for a particular brand. Max hp may be a different brand. I got a good deal on a set of Belangers when Parts Rack was doing a special.

Speaking of Parts Rack, and whether you like Jon or not, I do trust his technical comments he has given me over the years. And... 2 comments on the cats, from my conversations with him on said cats.

-> The R/T cats he sells are tailored to the Viper engine. If you are speaking of a generic cat with a tuner then it may be different. But, in either case, yes, a cat reduces overall performance to a degree. However, you should compare it to the factory cat when saying it is "terrible for performance and flow." Not versus straight pipe. That's a no brainer.

-> Regarding no cats and back pressure and hp gain / loss etc, Jon had a lot to say on that and I can't remember the exact explanation or summary. Bottom line is tho, it may not be as it seems; remove cats, gain tons of hp. I would challenge anyone that has done that to show me the data. Dyno sheets from before and after, on a basically stock engine (NO head or cam work), with a pull exclusively with or without cats. On the same dyno, the same day, blah blah.

<crickets>

In summary, I think the butt dyno is used a lot. I know, it's a car guy thing that when your car is louder after wrenching on it all day, that it's also faster now. I say show me the proof if you're going to say "it gained at least 20 hp..."

 

[alwayscode390]

My A/F readings were around 13-13.5 .

My A/F was 12.27 which is pretty rich , and robbed me of a few hp / tq , on a Dyno Jet too ---

 

[BlackOutBoxing]

Yes the dyno is just a tuning tool. On the mustang dyno I only did 507rwhp? The dyno guy said he multiplies that # by 13 point something? He came up with high 500's. I wasnt too sure of any of it until my 2nd run trap speed
Was 130mph! Now I know I'm right around 600rwhp. It's funny cause I was all nervous about the 507 #. lost sleep over it even. Then Greg good said take it to the track. If ur close to or over 130mph ur where ya wanna be for an na car! Now if I could get a 1.5 or 1.6 I'm in the mid to high 10's! Pretty respetable I think!

 

[slitherv10]

The info I have on Belangers not being the *best* choice for hp gains is just an accumulation of opinions etc. There are several makes of headers for the Gen 2; M&M, TNT, Edelbrock. As is being said, there may be a sweet spot for a particular brand. Max hp may be a different brand. I got a good deal on a set of Belangers when Parts Rack was doing a special.

Speaking of Parts Rack, and whether you like Jon or not, I do trust his technical comments he has given me over the years. And... 2 comments on the cats, from my conversations with him on said cats.

-> The R/T cats he sells are tailored to the Viper engine. If you are speaking of a generic cat with a tuner then it may be different. But, in either case, yes, a cat reduces overall performance to a degree. However, you should compare it to the factory cat when saying it is "terrible for performance and flow." Not versus straight pipe. That's a no brainer.

-> Regarding no cats and back pressure and hp gain / loss etc, Jon had a lot to say on that and I can't remember the exact explanation or summary. Bottom line is tho, it may not be as it seems; remove cats, gain tons of hp. I would challenge anyone that has done that to show me the data. Dyno sheets from before and after, on a basically stock engine (NO head or cam work), with a pull exclusively with or without cats. On the same dyno, the same day, blah blah.

<crickets>

In summary, I think the butt dyno is used a lot. I know, it's a car guy thing that when your car is louder after wrenching on it all day, that it's also faster now. I say show me the proof if you're going to say "it gained at least 20 hp..."

Well, I am speaking personaly right now and cannot account for others as each car and set up is individual. Lou Belanger had stated to me when I asked him about buying hs high flow cats with the headers that, the cats would do nothig to improve performance and in some ways hinder it. Thus basicaly saying to me, I wouldnt buy them. Thats the hint i got from him anyway. Do other applications work better with cats on? Do different manufactures make better or worse high flows? I don't know. Like you said, I would have to see it to believe it. All i know, is it seems to me as i tamper and educate myself with the Viper and the aftermarket parts and dyno numbers they bring that, its all a marketing strategy and nothing more. You put your stock car on the dyno, look at the numbers, then add mods to it one by one and see the difference in Hp and Tq numbers and in the end, there are so many factors other than the mod itself that made the numbers differ that, who the heck knows in the end what gave you the gains or losses or why they happend that way in the first place. temperature, altitude, bad gas, dyno machines and its set up, etc etc....way too many variables involved to get a true correct answer to why Hp and Tq numbers are what they are on each car. Its a great tool used by the said to measure something that in the end seems to be irrevalant to the true purpose. the purpose of achieving a faster more efficient car.
I feel upto at least 50 hp gains, you wouldnt notice any considerable difference on the street. As for quarter mile times, you would. That is the key here...quarter and mile times. What the numbers say there is what counts. You could show 600hp and the next car show 450hp and in the qaurter mile lose to the 450 car. If its not tune right, drivers error,tires,reaction time, and im sure more reasons than that ( I have never been to the drag strip), you'll lose. So all the mumbo Jumbo of add this and add that with mere gains seems to be becoming a yawn for me as I see so many threads with so much tinkering on small amounts of Hp to get what in teh end, on the street youll notice nothing and spend thousands doing it.

End results is get the motor built up or a supercharger or twin turbo. Depending on what you want from your car and where you intend on using all that power. Stop tying your ******* in a knot with all this petty upgrades and do it right. Go big or go home.

425, 419,434,450 Hp....who cares...your talking miniscule amounts of power here that could be affected from anything.

 

[SoCal Rebell]

2000 Creampuff 3.55 gears, light weight flywheel, smooth tubes, Belanger headers, Belanger 3" catbacks, 3" in/out Randomtech cats and stock wheels put down 434 RWHP, 474 RWTQ.

 

[slitherv10]

Jon at Parts Rack did clarify to me that his and Lou's high flow cats are NOT the same. When I bought my exhaust it all came from Belanger except the cats which were shipped from Parts Rack.

Is Jons High flows Belangers or another make?

 

[dave6666]

They are Random Technology. Just call him up and tell him Dave from Texas says howdy lol.

 

[Garron]

The dyno takes in account how cold it is, baro and humidity. So don't think you are going to run better because it is a colder day.

Dyno's are just numbers, As I told you before my mustang only made 350RWHP on dasilva's dyno. I spent two weeks be depressed about the number and then I went to the track. It ran 10.2 at 123mph, I was happy with my time.

 

[slitherv10]

The dyno takes in account how cold it is, baro and humidity. So don't think you are going to run better because it is a colder day.

Dyno's are just numbers, As I told you before my mustang only made 350RWHP on dasilva's dyno. I spent two weeks be depressed about the number and then I went to the track. It ran 10.2 at 123mph, I was happy with my time.

No, I gotcha garrett,

I am not realy heating over the numbers. Like I said earlier in my post, and as you just quoted, its just a number. I am not quivering over a few horses. My next mod or aftermarket addition, will be either the supercharger or a twin turbo.

will probably start a poll on which supercharger (manufacturer,size,etc) to get. Would also love to here as many recommendations as possible from others who have superchargers and or turbo systems and see the pros and cons they have experienced....other than back tires often, brakes, and prozacs for the rush you get every time you step on it.