Without naming the VCA vendor for now, I have a court judgment against this vendor. My question here is, does VCA provide any assistance in collecting such judgment? I have already found out that unfortunately, there is no assistance in resolving issues with VCA vendors and reliance on legal system is the only available option (civilized one that is). I am curious if this extends to actual judgment collection and if once again, am I here on my own? This does not seem right to me, especially seeing that vendor causing more pain to the Viper community and baiting potential new victims. I have made a demand for payment to the vendor but surprise surprise, no response. This is just my opinion of course but events like this one do not generate good publicity for VCA.
Does VCA assist in collecting judgments against VCA vendors?
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denniskgb
Enthusiast
I remember your post regading VAPAIR and Steve....it is still going on? What a shame...I think legal court matter is the only way, as of right now. And i remember someone suggesting rating system for vendors which would make perfect sence. I never hear anything negative about any other vendors but this one. I hope VCA is listeneing.
Since you already disclosed the name, I already sued him and had my day in court with him. He lost twice, first for owing me the money for merchandise he never delivered and the second time, for his countersuit, trying to extort more money from me (yes, he actually showed up and countersued me). I waited patiently since November 12, for him to make good on the judgment but apparently he chose to be a deadbeat on top of being a fraud. I have already seen no help from VCA the first time. Now, I have a legal judgment against him and the business is still as usual around here.
canadian venom
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Look at how VCA are holding raffle and handling things..... do you realy think they'll help you? All they want now, is to grab all the money they can... But don't stop and eventually you'll get what's rightfully yours and good luck!!!
Thank you very much. I always like to give others a benefit of doubt before concluding anything, thus, I raised the question. Apparently I must enjoy asking rhetorical questionsLook at how VCA are holding raffle and handling things..... do you realy think they'll help you? All they want now, is to grab all the money they can... But don't stop and eventually you'll get what's rightfully yours and good luck!!!
Rest assured, I'll keep pressing on until this is resolved.
And just what would you expect the VCA to do to help him? Please spell it out. Does this mean that every time that there is a dispute between a member and a vendor that the VCA should insert itself in the dispute? Who is going to take the time to do that? Who would volunteer to do that?
Is the VCA now going to set up a free mediation service? Good luck with that. I am sure that the new club will not have a different policy on this issue. To do so would make no sense.
The most a club can do is establish a specific policy regarding what acts, and how many of them, on the part of a vendor should result in that vendor having its right to advertise on its site and in its magazine revoked. A complainant would then have to produce a preponderance of evidence that such acts had been committed by the vendor and the vendor would have to be given a right to respond. Even this would be time consuming and if the vendor did not care about loss of the advertising, it would have no effect. Then there is the issue of whether it would be ethical and legal for a club to threaten a suspension unless a judgment was paid. In some circumstances it might be in others probably not.
As for raffles, there were quite a few as I recall. All but one was handled perfectly. But even the alleged to be imperfect one had winners who were awarded and received the prizes. So I think to many of us, any alleged defects are nothing but the sour grapes of some who lost the raffle.
Is the VCA now going to set up a free mediation service? Good luck with that. I am sure that the new club will not have a different policy on this issue. To do so would make no sense.
The most a club can do is establish a specific policy regarding what acts, and how many of them, on the part of a vendor should result in that vendor having its right to advertise on its site and in its magazine revoked. A complainant would then have to produce a preponderance of evidence that such acts had been committed by the vendor and the vendor would have to be given a right to respond. Even this would be time consuming and if the vendor did not care about loss of the advertising, it would have no effect. Then there is the issue of whether it would be ethical and legal for a club to threaten a suspension unless a judgment was paid. In some circumstances it might be in others probably not.
As for raffles, there were quite a few as I recall. All but one was handled perfectly. But even the alleged to be imperfect one had winners who were awarded and received the prizes. So I think to many of us, any alleged defects are nothing but the sour grapes of some who lost the raffle.
Look at how VCA are holding raffle and handling things..... do you realy think they'll help you? All they want now, is to grab all the money they can... But don't stop and eventually you'll get what's rightfully yours and good luck!!!
I assume you speak for VCA and represent official stand of VCA on these issues? Not sure if you caught the part where this is no longer a dispute? This case has been reviewed by court and there is a judgment against Prescott, ordering him to pay the money he took from me after making a purchase from him as a VCA vendor, in this place. Suspending a vendor until he pays off the judgment against him would be a logical thing to do but apparently only to me. I find it very disturbing actually seeing that he continues to post his "build" threads and baiting other Viper owners.
In case you are not aware, there is another complaint against him in the vendor ***** section. You must either ignore this part or miss it. If you missed it, this just proves my point about very obscure and ineffective function of VCA vendor feedback and if you ignore it, this is even worse.
Nevertheless, no need to get defensive and try to shoot the messenger. I asked because I did not know, assuming you speak for VCA, I got my answer and it is just as eye opening as the previous question regarding vendors with notorious and continuous record of bad transactions.
I am guessing you are an attorney or at least somehow related to this subject, I am sure you understand that proclaiming innocence of VCA due to negligence is not a plausible and effective defense.
In case you are not aware, there is another complaint against him in the vendor ***** section. You must either ignore this part or miss it. If you missed it, this just proves my point about very obscure and ineffective function of VCA vendor feedback and if you ignore it, this is even worse.
Nevertheless, no need to get defensive and try to shoot the messenger. I asked because I did not know, assuming you speak for VCA, I got my answer and it is just as eye opening as the previous question regarding vendors with notorious and continuous record of bad transactions.
I am guessing you are an attorney or at least somehow related to this subject, I am sure you understand that proclaiming innocence of VCA due to negligence is not a plausible and effective defense.
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Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
It has not been unusual, in the past, for VCA to back up a vendor dispute to reach a mutually agreed upon solution. In this case, you already have a judgement in your favor from the courts. The procedure, if the guilty party does not honor the judgement is to do a search for attachable assets, and file a lien upon them.
Also, sometimes a local police officer will help you to recover your losses by going with you to the place of business and helping to enforce the judgement.
In the case of government, they will sometimes even stand at the cash register and recover funds coming into the business to attach any funds available on a day to day basis until the judgement is fully resolved (believe this is an IRS procedure.
Not sure the club can help out grabbing the money, however maybe someone knows the vendor and could intercede on your behalf.
I know that the SoCal VCA was very helpful in resolving a dispute regarding a members Gen V Viper that was delivered with some issues. Seems like everyone resolved that with the help of the local club.
Would check with your local VCA Regional President to see if they can sort this out.
Unfortunately, at this time the VCA is highly sensitive about banning anyone, however your post of this forum may go a long way to see that others are aware of your situation.
I have seen situations like yours before. A vendor's reputation is one of their most valuable assets. Maybe this thread will encourage him to step up and make this right. It so, it would be most appropriate to announce that this dispute has been resolved to the satisfaction of all parties, and our members can feel more comfortable continuing to do business where they see fit.
It would also be helpful if the vendor in question would post his side of the story so we could see why he has done to resolve the dispute.
This is not all that unusual for a person to obtain a judgement and find it difficult to have it enforced. Not fair or right, but a reality
Also, sometimes a local police officer will help you to recover your losses by going with you to the place of business and helping to enforce the judgement.
In the case of government, they will sometimes even stand at the cash register and recover funds coming into the business to attach any funds available on a day to day basis until the judgement is fully resolved (believe this is an IRS procedure.
Not sure the club can help out grabbing the money, however maybe someone knows the vendor and could intercede on your behalf.
I know that the SoCal VCA was very helpful in resolving a dispute regarding a members Gen V Viper that was delivered with some issues. Seems like everyone resolved that with the help of the local club.
Would check with your local VCA Regional President to see if they can sort this out.
Unfortunately, at this time the VCA is highly sensitive about banning anyone, however your post of this forum may go a long way to see that others are aware of your situation.
I have seen situations like yours before. A vendor's reputation is one of their most valuable assets. Maybe this thread will encourage him to step up and make this right. It so, it would be most appropriate to announce that this dispute has been resolved to the satisfaction of all parties, and our members can feel more comfortable continuing to do business where they see fit.
It would also be helpful if the vendor in question would post his side of the story so we could see why he has done to resolve the dispute.
This is not all that unusual for a person to obtain a judgement and find it difficult to have it enforced. Not fair or right, but a reality
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I do not expect VCA to actually collect the money for me, I am perfectly capable of doing this myself, just like with suing Prescott in the first place. All I have asked is if VCA chooses to "motivate" sellers with judgments against them to fess up before allowing them to continue calling themselves "VCA supporting vendors" and allowing them to conduct their transactions around here. I'll be happy to provide a copy of the actual judgment if any of you are in doubt. I think VCA would care about Viper owners and create incentives to eliminate habitual offenders. Apparently, this is not a case at all. BTW, issues like this one are not a local issue, internet transactions require measures at national level, creating safeguards to protect Viper owners instead of contributing vendors, no matter how dishonest they may be. I have to say, this is quite an eye opening experience for me, seeing all sorts of excuses coming from people speaking for VCA while these things continue.
I only write for me. Note that my post was not in response to your post. Regardless of whether there is a judgment, there still has to be an internal procedure. The VCA was not a party to the suit. Do I empathize with your plight? Absolutely. Do I think that it is fair to use a VCA threat to pull the vendor's right to advertise in an attempt to compel him to pay your judgment without some sort of internal VCA procedure to review the facts of the case? No. But with such a review, yes. The problem is who has the time and would be willing to do it. Now that you have a judgment, and I assume that the time to take an appeal has run, among the things you can do, along with what Paul suggested, are: contact his local better business bureau; take a small ad out in his community newspaper; file a complaint with the local department that has issued any type of business license to him if there is a procedure to do that; and last, but not least, post a scan of the Judgment order on any relevant forum. I hope that you get paid.
Had no knowledge of this case until I remember seeing it on this website back on 10/25. When I saw the thread I contacted both of you. At the time you both told me it wasn't necessary for anyone from the VCA to get involved as you already had a court date.
Fast forward to a few days ago (12/16), I sent both of you a PM to find out what happened as no one ever got back to me. You were the first person to respond earlier today. And instead of telling me what happened, you tell me you won and to see this thread. I will be sending you a PM with my email. Please forward as much information as possible so that I can share it with the board.
I don't know if you in fact sought the help of the VCA prior to 10/25. You may very well have. I highly doubt the VCA board will tolerate vendors taking advantage of customers through our website. I know I don't tolerate it. So please send me the facts so that we can review.
TowDawg
Enthusiast
Of course it wasn't a response to his post. That would have required an actual answer.
We always know we can count on you to jump in with a long winded response having nothing to do with the initial question.
To the OP, sorry for the hijack and good luck recovering your funds. Are you both located in the same state? If not, was the judgement issued in the guilty party's state. I think you'll get a lot more help from the court system if they are actually in the same place as the vendor.
Here is a message I received from VCA Forum Staff on 8/19/13 after posting a thread in Gen 4 section:
"Be advised your new thread has been moved to the vendor area, please do not start any more vendor related threads in the main forums." I have also, at the same time, placed an inquiry regarding my issue, using the inquiry form available under CONTACT US option. I am not sure what else was I supposed to do? If you say you had no knowledge of anything happening, then again, this just proves my point about vendor feedback as a dead end venue with nobody caring what is in it, doesn't it? The only reason why you contacted me was in a thread back in October. Do you think there may be an issue here and perhaps I may have a point regarding buyer issues and system designed to protect vendors? To make clear, I stated in my PM in October that I was not sure if there was anything you could do due to so much time passed and me resorting to court proceeding after running out of any other options. I also forwarded you all information you asked but never heard back from you again. Apparently you assumed there was nothing for you do because I was not sure if there was anything that could be done?
Fast forward to me being away from this forum, I responded to your PM as soon as I logged on the forum and simply pointed you out to the thread, after telling you that I have a judgment against Prescott.
"Be advised your new thread has been moved to the vendor area, please do not start any more vendor related threads in the main forums." I have also, at the same time, placed an inquiry regarding my issue, using the inquiry form available under CONTACT US option. I am not sure what else was I supposed to do? If you say you had no knowledge of anything happening, then again, this just proves my point about vendor feedback as a dead end venue with nobody caring what is in it, doesn't it? The only reason why you contacted me was in a thread back in October. Do you think there may be an issue here and perhaps I may have a point regarding buyer issues and system designed to protect vendors? To make clear, I stated in my PM in October that I was not sure if there was anything you could do due to so much time passed and me resorting to court proceeding after running out of any other options. I also forwarded you all information you asked but never heard back from you again. Apparently you assumed there was nothing for you do because I was not sure if there was anything that could be done?
Fast forward to me being away from this forum, I responded to your PM as soon as I logged on the forum and simply pointed you out to the thread, after telling you that I have a judgment against Prescott.
As a landlord I deal with this from time to time. If he doesn't pay, then just file with the court and serve him docs for the asset hearing. From that point the judge will put an end to this b/s. Given his property and assets I would imagine he will pay up quickly, assuming the suit names him personally and not an LLC, etc.
I hope the forum bans him on principle if any of this is even 51% true.
I hope the forum bans him on principle if any of this is even 51% true.
What kind of response is one that does not respond to anything? You really got me confused here.
Maybe VCA should be a part of the suit to change things? What procedures are you referring to regarding bad transactions? Can you point me to the relevant information? I seem to recall that when I requested assistance, I was told that VCA has no time to deal with these issues. So again, what procedure are you referring to? The dead end vendor feedback section?
I do not need your sympathy, never asked for any. I am perfectly capable of taking care of my own business but I am sure this is not something that everyone wants to endure. What I would like to see is safeguards to protect all buyers, seems like a reasonable request, applying my experience to protect others. I hope this seems fair to you? By now, I am seriously confused who speaks for VCA around here.
Maybe VCA should be a part of the suit to change things? What procedures are you referring to regarding bad transactions? Can you point me to the relevant information? I seem to recall that when I requested assistance, I was told that VCA has no time to deal with these issues. So again, what procedure are you referring to? The dead end vendor feedback section?
I do not need your sympathy, never asked for any. I am perfectly capable of taking care of my own business but I am sure this is not something that everyone wants to endure. What I would like to see is safeguards to protect all buyers, seems like a reasonable request, applying my experience to protect others. I hope this seems fair to you? By now, I am seriously confused who speaks for VCA around here.
There are a number of suggestions in the post you copied which you are obviously ignoring.
You are reading me wrong. I am suggesting that there should be a procedure so that action can be taken. More attention should have been given to your issue initially. August was a s***storm in the VCA. You are right about the need to protect members. We agree.
Yes, I am fairly local to him and this is my only saving grace. If I was out of state, I would be skrewed and this is why I would like to see safeguards protecting all buyers, regardless of their location. I am sure there are ways to do it, I have seen it done in other places, including escrow systems if necessary.
Nsane1
Enthusiast
This is very disturbing. I know for a fact this is news to us. Paul is right, we are VERY sensitive to banning someone, but we need to protect our members, especially since this guy is a vendor.
I will call him and see what we can do. No promises that I can affect any action here, but I do promise I will make contact and apprise you privately.
Greg
I will call him and see what we can do. No promises that I can affect any action here, but I do promise I will make contact and apprise you privately.
Greg
I think you may be missing a bigger picture here. I am fortunate enough to look after myself, there are many who for various reasons cannot. Blaming a vendor for taking advantage of a system that encourages bad dealings will not create a solution discouraging others from trying. If there is an opportunity for VCA to gain support, this would be the one. If I have to spend money on legal filings, that certainly does not motivate me and others to pay the VCA dues...
Maybe there needs to be better Vendor screening on the front end as well. Does anyone know what process is used, if any to vet a vendor before it is allowed to advertise? As for the back end, if there are not already, there should be a set of objective criteria for the Board to use to judge a vendor's behavior and some punishment guidelines depending on the offense or offenses so that there is uniform treatment of vendors. Do you agree?
I got a note from Steve a few hours earlier, stating his willingness to pay off the judgment. I shall certainly announce when the money is in my account. I would still recommend looking into entire system and creating some meaningful safeguards. I think this being a news may be more disturbing.
Nsane1
Enthusiast
Peter- Sent you a PM. This being news in disturbing? No disrespect, but we've had quite a few large holes to fill in a short time (and August was before any of us were here). I will reach out tomorrow. I've contacted a few other 'problem" vendors in the last few months, with I think good results. Fingers crossed...
Sorry you had to go through that, no one needs to experience that crap...
Sorry you had to go through that, no one needs to experience that crap...
Please tell what kind of review process the VCA would do that a court of law would not have already covered.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Peter.
Looks like you are making good progress. Indeed, please let the forum know if you are satisfied with the result.
In addition, you have brought awareness that vendors that advertise on this site should be responsible for keeping their dealings fair and square.
Hope you get your $ soon.
A judgment can be given full faith and credit without a review in certain instances after it is determined that there were no procedural irregularities regarding the process utilized to obtain it. A review of the basic facts is just an additional safeguard. The other issue to be covered in a review is what punishment to dispense for what type of offense. So the review process would include a determination of how whatever uniform guidelines that were adopted regarding punishment apply to the undisputed facts and/or the factual findings of the Court. For instance, in some cases, a simple refund of a Member's money might be enough. In another case, a refund and a suspension might be enough. Some cases might call for a permanent termination of the VCA's relationship with the vendor. The Members should be protected but the process of protecting them should be a fair and just one.
There was an incident of a very prominent and well known vendor being suspended for a long time for what, in essence, was insulting language regarding the VCA and some of its officers. The discussion of whether the process that was utilized at that time was fair is in another thread. The vendor, who has a large following and is highly regarded by many members did not think it was fair. Many agreed with him. So that incident should be kept in mind going forward so that any review process is seen as fair by everyone.
There was an incident of a very prominent and well known vendor being suspended for a long time for what, in essence, was insulting language regarding the VCA and some of its officers. The discussion of whether the process that was utilized at that time was fair is in another thread. The vendor, who has a large following and is highly regarded by many members did not think it was fair. Many agreed with him. So that incident should be kept in mind going forward so that any review process is seen as fair by everyone.
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This is the only part that needs to be done by the VCA. If someone already has a judgement then the court of law has already spoken and the VCA is in no position to question ANY court of law. The VCA would need to determine if it in the clubs best interest to remain associated with the vendor. Call it the Hennessy rule or maybe now it can be switched to the Vipair rule.
I wish that you were right but not all Judgments are equal. A brief review of the facts could detect an obvioulsy incorrect judgment. For instance, assume that a Member goes to small claims court and the Judge rules in favor of the Vendor based on a technicality because the Member is inexperienced in Court and the Vendor is represeneted by a lawyer. Should the VCA be bound by that Judgment or should the member be allowed to present his or her case to the Board?
Judgments against a vendor, ordering monetary compensations are pretty straight forward. Faxing a copy of the judgment should result in immediate suspension of vendor until issue is resolved. Complaints should be investigated, resulting in a strike against the vendor and suspension afterwards. I am sure that nobody would be objecting to a for a fee escrow service which is available in other places. Any vendor with strikes against them should be forced to use it, at their expense until all issues against them are resolved, Escrow should be available for anyone who orders custom made to order parts, with time exceeding the grace period on their credit cards. These are pretty simple and straight forward measures that could build members confidence and provide more accountability. Also, you may consider a tickler on the front page of the forum listing any bad apples with a direct link to the thread documenting the issue. Just a few ideas.
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