Does VCA assist in collecting judgments against VCA vendors?

[Bobpantax]

And pretty good ones at that.

 

[FOViper]

I wish that you were right but not all Judgments are equal. A brief review of the facts could detect an obvioulsy incorrect judgment. For instance, assume that a Member goes to small claims court and the Judge rules in favor of the Vendor based on a technicality because the Member is inexperienced in Court and the Vendor is represeneted by a lawyer. Should the VCA be bound by that Judgment or should the member be allowed to present his or her case to the Board?

The VCA cannot correct mistakes made by either party in the court of law. Attempting to do so would open themselves up to legal action.

They could simply use their right to refuse service the next time that vendor was up for sponsor/vendor renewal.

 

[Bobpantax]

You are misunderstanding my posts. Of course they cannot correct the judgment but they can review the facts for the purpose of determining whether, despite the judgment, a vendor should, in some fashion, be punished. If a member lost on a procedural technicality, the facts are still there. And they can be considered by the VCA unless the VCA was a party to the suit.

The VCA cannot correct mistakes made by either party in the court of law. Attempting to do so would open themselves up to legal action.

They could simply use their right to refuse service the next time that vendor was up for sponsor/vendor renewal.

 

[Nsane1]

So, I spent a lot of time with the vendor last night. I have all the correspondence between the vendor and the purchaser, I have the judgement (I even have the pictures of the beautiful stuff).

I firmly believe the payment will be made, apparently there was some issue about how those payments were to be made, and admittedly, the vendor wanted to wait until the last moment to pay (as I would, given these circumstances).

Please post when/if these payments are received, as we would all like to know.

As to punishment, as stated earlier, we are a little gunshy on inflicting punishment. I have reviewed all the correspondence, etc. and after an hour long discussion, hearing the "other" side, this one is not as clear cut as I originally thought. I was fully prepared to threaten suspension (an actual suspension would require *** approval), but instead, we discussed ways that the vendor could do a better job with documentation, communication, and "controls". There are other vendors here who have no intent to deceive (as I believe this vendor has no intent to deceive) but could improve their processes and perhaps fix these issues before they get to a boiling point.

EVERY vendor has problem transactions (even in my business), it's how we resolve these that varies from vendor to vendor.

SO in short, we will watch the vendor more closely, in this instance, there is enough animosity and poor communications on both sides to say it was not actionable by the VCA, but my hope is this vendor will strive to get the "service" part of his business to match the amazing work he does.

If, however, he does not pay (as I mention I fully believe he will, it's a small judgement) then we will, of course, have to take some kind of action...

Greg

 

[PeterMJ]

I am glad that at least things were clear for the judge.

As it is, I do not see any money. If he does not pay up, I'll start clarifying things to resolve any doubts. In the meantime, I am not surprised things do not seem clear for you after having that lengthy conversation with the vendor, after all, this is how these things work. Perhaps things would gain another perspective for you if you were the one postponing finishing your car for another year?

As the judge said, the vendor has my money and my parts and I have nothing, this part has been clear all along.

So, I spent a lot of time with the vendor last night. I have all the correspondence between the vendor and the purchaser, I have the judgement (I even have the pictures of the beautiful stuff).

I firmly believe the payment will be made, apparently there was some issue about how those payments were to be made, and admittedly, the vendor wanted to wait until the last moment to pay (as I would, given these circumstances).

Please post when/if these payments are received, as we would all like to know.

As to punishment, as stated earlier, we are a little gunshy on inflicting punishment. I have reviewed all the correspondence, etc. and after an hour long discussion, hearing the "other" side, this one is not as clear cut as I originally thought. I was fully prepared to threaten suspension (an actual suspension would require *** approval), but instead, we discussed ways that the vendor could do a better job with documentation, communication, and "controls". There are other vendors here who have no intent to deceive (as I believe this vendor has no intent to deceive) but could improve their processes and perhaps fix these issues before they get to a boiling point.

EVERY vendor has problem transactions (even in my business), it's how we resolve these that varies from vendor to vendor.

SO in short, we will watch the vendor more closely, in this instance, there is enough animosity and poor communications on both sides to say it was not actionable by the VCA, but my hope is this vendor will strive to get the "service" part of his business to match the amazing work he does.

If, however, he does not pay (as I mention I fully believe he will, it's a small judgement) then we will, of course, have to take some kind of action...

Greg

 

[Paul Hawker]

Peter.

Maybe, in a small way, this VCA has been able to help resolve your issue. If you get your money back, it will help. You will still most likely have a bad taste in your mouth about this specific vendor, but may feel more kindly towards VCA for providing this forum and some personal dialog with the vendor.

We understand that you still do not have the parts you wanted for your car, and that in itself is disappointing, however with vendors often depending on other suppliers, that can really screw things up for both the vendor and customer.

In this case, I am sure the vendor wants to wait till all the charges, credits etc have been cleared before sending you your check, but no matter, the money should soon be on it's way to you. (If not, please feel free to post any change in expected outcome)

Please keep in touch.

 

[GTS-R 001]

I am glad that at least things were clear for the judge.

As it is, I do not see any money. If he does not pay up, I'll start clarifying things to resolve any doubts. In the meantime, I am not surprised things do not seem clear for you after having that lengthy conversation with the vendor, after all, this is how these things work. Perhaps things would gain another perspective for you if you were the one postponing finishing your car for another year?

As the judge said, the vendor has my money and my parts and I have nothing, this part has been clear all along.

Peter,

As you well know, we both went before the Judge and he heard both sides

He heard how you shipped the roll hoop cores but did not want to pay for the hoops

He heard how you felt you should not have to pay state tax

He heard how you did not want your CF spoiler I made for you in plain weave Carbon Fiber as you have bought another
and how you do not want any of the parts you ordered any more.

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

This spoiler is in the classifieds for sale

He heard how you did not want to pay shipping and you did not want to pay for the box.

The Judge tried to offer up a mediation which you refused as you had "bought another spoiler"

The Judge made a decision that is good for both parties, I will sell the stuff I made for you to someone else, you will get a refund of what you paid and I will eat the carbon roll hoops made for you, as I offered to do in court to help expedite the process anyways...

I waited the 30 days as it says to in the Judgement, (this is an appeal period)

You waited the 30 days as it said to as well.

You then emailed me on the 13th and asked that I contact you by the 20th or you would post up a thread like this.

I contacted you on the 19th and you posted up a thread anyways.

You asked for payment by paypal as a "gift"

I have agreed and told you payment is being arranged.

This is all extra drama, but that seems to be what you want and what you strive for.

 

[PeterMJ]

LOL, do not sell VCA short. I would like to at least partially credit VCA but I really cannot. I realized quite a while ago I was on my own which indeed left a bad taste in my mouth. After all, with so few Vipers around, I thought this would be a close knit community. Blaming suppliers in this case is pretty lame, these were supposed to be made to order custom parts, by the vendor. In this case, there are no charges or credits to clear before my money should be refunded, just a plain case of the vendor refusing to part with MY MONEY. If VCA can help others and prevent things like these from happening repeatedly, I would be elated. I hope you were kidding about the CHECK IS IN THE MAIL part.

Peter.

Maybe, in a small way, this VCA has been able to help resolve your issue. If you get your money back, it will help. You will still most likely have a bad taste in your mouth about this specific vendor, but may feel more kindly towards VCA for providing this forum and some personal dialog with the vendor.

We understand that you still do not have the parts you wanted for your car, and that in itself is disappointing, however with vendors often depending on other suppliers, that can really screw things up for both the vendor and customer.

In this case, I am sure the vendor wants to wait till all the charges, credits etc have been cleared before sending you your check, but no matter, the money should soon be on it's way to you. (If not, please feel free to post any change in expected outcome)

Please keep in touch.

 

[PeterMJ]

Did you forget to send the money? I am truly beyond the mediation part and would like to move on. You had ample opportunity to make things good for the last seven months, making the payment to satisfy the outstanding judgment against you is the only part you should do at this time. I am glad you managed to come up with the photos of the correct spoiler now, beats sending me 3 year old photos of wrong part as you have done before ending up in court. To make clear, I ordered THREE parts from you, this is a photo of ONE part only and long after I had to sue you. Please pay up and let us all move on.

Peter,

As you well know, we both went before the Judge and he heard both sides

He heard how you shipped the roll hoop cores but did not want to pay for the hoops

He heard how you felt you should not have to pay state tax

He heard how you did not want your CF spoiler I made for you in plain weave Carbon Fiber as you have bought another
and how you do not want any of the parts you ordered any more.

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

This spoiler is in the classifieds for sale

He heard how you did not want to pay shipping and you did not want to pay for the box.

The Judge tried to offer up a mediation which you refused as you had "bought another spoiler"

The Judge made a decision that is good for both parties, I will sell the stuff I made for you to someone else, you will get a refund of what you paid and I will eat the carbon roll hoops made for you, as I offered to do in court to help expedite the process anyways...

I waited the 30 days as it says to in the Judgement, (this is an appeal period)

You waited the 30 days as it said to as well.

You then emailed me on the 13th and asked that I contact you by the 20th or you would post up a thread like this.

I contacted you on the 19th and you posted up a thread anyways.

You asked for payment by paypal as a "gift"

I have agreed and told you payment is being arranged.

This is all extra drama, but that seems to be what you want and what you strive for.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Did you forget to send the money? I am truly beyond the mediation part and would like to move on. You had ample opportunity to make things good for the last seven months, making the payment to satisfy the outstanding judgment against you is the only part you should do at this time. I am glad you managed to come up with the photos of the correct spoiler now, beats sending me 3 year old photos of wrong part as you have done before ending up in court. To make clear, I ordered THREE parts from you, this is a photo of ONE part only and long after I had to sue you. Please pay up and let us all move on.

So NOW YOU ADMIT that you ordered the Roll Hoops, LOL

You said the opposite in court, that is called Perjury!

Thanks for finally admitting that Peter,

 

[PeterMJ]

Make the payment and I hope VCA takes notice of your demeanor.

So NOW YOU ADMIT that you ordered the Roll Hoops, LOL

You said the opposite in court, that is called Perjury!

Thanks for finally admitting that Peter,

 

[GTS-R 001]

Make the payment and I hope VCA takes notice of your demeanor.

Peter,

Perjury is perjury

 

[PeterMJ]

Look in the mirror to see the perjurer. You have until the end of today to comply with the court order and pay off the judgment against you. You had 30 days to file an appeal. As it is, the judgment is final and should you not comply, I'll take the appropriate steps to collect my money, including interest and any legal fees that I may incur during the collection process. I also hope that should you fail to pay the judgment, VCA will take appropriate steps to stop your behavior. I'll post update upon your payment or by the end of the day.

Peter,

Perjury is perjury

 

[ViperJohn]

Peter, Hope it all works out in the end. The message you reference was BVP (Before Viper John).

I also want to thank Greg for jumping in on this situation as well. Its been a hectic past 24 hours for me.

QUOTE=PeterMJ;3234566]Here is a message I received from VCA Forum Staff on 8/19/13 after posting a thread in Gen 4 section:

"Be advised your new thread has been moved to the vendor area, please do not start any more vendor related threads in the main forums." I have also, at the same time, placed an inquiry regarding my issue, using the inquiry form available under CONTACT US option. I am not sure what else was I supposed to do? If you say you had no knowledge of anything happening, then again, this just proves my point about vendor feedback as a dead end venue with nobody caring what is in it, doesn't it? The only reason why you contacted me was in a thread back in October. Do you think there may be an issue here and perhaps I may have a point regarding buyer issues and system designed to protect vendors? To make clear, I stated in my PM in October that I was not sure if there was anything you could do due to so much time passed and me resorting to court proceeding after running out of any other options. I also forwarded you all information you asked but never heard back from you again. Apparently you assumed there was nothing for you do because I was not sure if there was anything that could be done?

Fast forward to me being away from this forum, I responded to your PM as soon as I logged on the forum and simply pointed you out to the thread, after telling you that I have a judgment against Prescott.[/QUOTE]

 

[PeterMJ]

I am a patient person and will see it to the end. Thank you very much for looking into this.

Peter, Hope it all works out in the end. The message you reference was BVP (Before Viper John).

I also want to thank Greg for jumping in on this situation as well. Its been a hectic past 24 hours for me.

QUOTE=PeterMJ;3234566]Here is a message I received from VCA Forum Staff on 8/19/13 after posting a thread in Gen 4 section:

"Be advised your new thread has been moved to the vendor area, please do not start any more vendor related threads in the main forums." I have also, at the same time, placed an inquiry regarding my issue, using the inquiry form available under CONTACT US option. I am not sure what else was I supposed to do? If you say you had no knowledge of anything happening, then again, this just proves my point about vendor feedback as a dead end venue with nobody caring what is in it, doesn't it? The only reason why you contacted me was in a thread back in October. Do you think there may be an issue here and perhaps I may have a point regarding buyer issues and system designed to protect vendors? To make clear, I stated in my PM in October that I was not sure if there was anything you could do due to so much time passed and me resorting to court proceeding after running out of any other options. I also forwarded you all information you asked but never heard back from you again. Apparently you assumed there was nothing for you do because I was not sure if there was anything that could be done?

Fast forward to me being away from this forum, I responded to your PM as soon as I logged on the forum and simply pointed you out to the thread, after telling you that I have a judgment against Prescott.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Free2go]

Yes, kudos to Greg.

 

[WANTED]

I am a patient person and will see it to the end. Thank you very much for looking into this.

[/QUOTE]

Look in the mirror to see the perjurer. You have until the end of today to comply with the court order and pay off the judgment against you. You had 30 days to file an appeal. As it is, the judgment is final and should you not comply, I'll take the appropriate steps to collect my money, including interest and any legal fees that I may incur during the collection process. I also hope that should you fail to pay the judgment, VCA will take appropriate steps to stop your behavior. I'll post update upon your payment or by the end of the day.

Originally Posted by GTS-R 001

Peter,

Perjury is perjury

yes you are patient, lol.

 

[intense5.5]

Peter, why not link this thread to all his "for sale" threads here and on the other forums?

 

[PeterMJ]

Peter, why not link this thread to all his "for sale" threads here and on the other forums?

I do not think this is allowed under forum rules, no matter how tempting and logical this may be.

 

[PeterMJ]

Well, I would say the day is over...

PayPal balance: $0.00 USD

Why am I not surprised that he broke another promise? I guess we shall see what VCA will do. In the meantime, I will have start collection proceedings. I see he is "building" another spoiler, God help those who will fall for it...

 

[Oilman1934]

How many people are gonna buy from this guy,it should be written in the owners manual "do not buy from Vipair performance".

 

[1stSgt Viper]

And just what would you expect the VCA to do to help him? Please spell it out. Does this mean that every time that there is a dispute between a member and a vendor that the VCA should insert itself in the dispute? Who is going to take the time to do that? Who would volunteer to do that?

Is the VCA now going to set up a free mediation service? Good luck with that. I am sure that the new club will not have a different policy on this issue. To do so would make no sense.

The most a club can do is establish a specific policy regarding what acts, and how many of them, on the part of a vendor should result in that vendor having its right to advertise on its site and in its magazine revoked. A complainant would then have to produce a preponderance of evidence that such acts had been committed by the vendor and the vendor would have to be given a right to respond. Even this would be time consuming and if the vendor did not care about loss of the advertising, it would have no effect. Then there is the issue of whether it would be ethical and legal for a club to threaten a suspension unless a judgment was paid. In some circumstances it might be in others probably not.


As for raffles, there were quite a few as I recall. All but one was handled perfectly. But even the alleged to be imperfect one had winners who were awarded and received the prizes. So I think to many of us, any alleged defects are nothing but the sour grapes of some who lost the raffle.

Sorry, but this is a lot of sour grapes! http://forums.viperclub.org/forums/296-Vendor-Review-Vipair-Performance-Products

 

[Fatboy 18]

I Would like to thank Peter MJ for posting all this information up, and to other members for posting the Link to the Vendor reviews.

I hope Peter MJ gets his monies back, as for who said what etc, That is not for us to argue, The Vendor has had Judgements against him, made in a court of law. Case closed.

Its **** like this that Car club members need to know!

 

[PeterMJ]

I Would like to thank Peter MJ for posting all this information up, and to other members for posting the Link to the Vendor reviews.

I hope Peter MJ gets his monies back, as for who said what etc, That is not for us to argue, The Vendor has had Judgements against him, made in a court of law. Case closed.

Its **** like this that Car club members need to know!

Very well put. This guy had plenty of opportunity to fix the damage he inflicted and prevent what takes place now. Apparently he either does not understand or refuses to understand that the judgment against him is final and the only thing he should do now is to pay up and show at least a trace of integrity and honesty. Nothing good can come out of this for him, absolutely no sense of self preservation on his part and obviously a complete disregard for the letter of law.

 

[Free2go]

How about scrapping the insurance that's provided to VCA members on sponsored track days etc. and insuring us against unscrupulous vendors embedded here....: )? I believe it was very kind of Greg to step up and try to help resolve this particular issue with Peter and demonstrates the type of leadership needed to create an environment of accountability.

 

[PeterMJ]

How about scrapping the insurance that's provided to VCA members on sponsored track days etc. and insuring us against unscrupulous vendors embedded here....: )? I believe it was very kind of Greg to step up and try to help resolve this particular issue with Peter and demonstrates the type of leadership needed to create an environment of accountability.

I guess we shall see. Seeing how things are still "unclear" to VCA representatives and continuous demeanor of Prescott in the meantime and no money being paid, my conclusions certainly differ from yours.

 

[PeterMJ]

Payment made. Let us just hope this situation can be avoided in the future, not through the vigilance of car owners but safeguards a car club should create to protect everyone.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Payment made.

Yes Peter,

Exactly as I said I would pay it after you requested a "gift" through Paypal on Thursday evening.

 

[PeterMJ]

Thank you. Let us hope our paths never cross again.

 

[Nsane1]

So since there seems to be a lot of piling on and "hearsay" going on here. I will close this thread since payment has been made. We have a vendor section, which is the right place for this, I might suggest Peter (assuming as an enthusiast you can access) you post your review in that section. PLEASE try to be un-emotional (I know it would be hard for me if I were in your shoes) and be fact-based, those become more impactful in the long run.

I'm glad we could assist (in a small way, admittedly) in getting this one to resolution... Happy holidays all!
Greg