F12 around Laguna Seca

[01viper4me]

Cool car to watch and listen to... but even more interesting that a Viper with two different sets of tires, loose drivers seat, pedal issues, and body parts falling off smoked the F12's time around Laguna Seca

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txmTgLFGdRo

 

[TrackAire]

Great video, thanks for posting.

Here are a couple of thoughts after watching the video:

Bass Price: $322,638.00
Price as tested: $434,144.00

-$111,506.00 in options?......for that kind of money I would hope it would include a hot a$$ Italian model to keep you company every time you took the car to the track

-Interesting that the new C7 stops in a shorter distance.....although I'm sure the F12's brakes should fade less or at least you'd hope so.

-I know that this is a grand touring car, but I am surprised that the track time wasn't a little faster, conditions looked good.

-Check out the front splitter at 9:40 of the video. Those chips are pretty bad. I'm guessing a replacement splitter is going to run over $10K.

Cheers,
George

 

[Torquemonster06]

I cringed when I saw those chips. Cool video though.

 

[v10enomous]

Viper looks better too...

I think these guys all practice their laugh in awe routine at home in front of the mirror.

 

[ViperSmith]

Great video, thanks for posting.

Here are a couple of thoughts after watching the video:

Bass Price: $322,638.00
Price as tested: $434,144.00

-$111,506.00 in options?......for that kind of money I would hope it would include a hot a$$ Italian model to keep you company every time you took the car to the track

-Interesting that the new C7 stops in a shorter distance.....although I'm sure the F12's brakes should fade less or at least you'd hope so.

-I know that this is a grand touring car, but I am surprised that the track time wasn't a little faster, conditions looked good.

-Check out the front splitter at 9:40 of the video. Those chips are pretty bad. I'm guessing a replacement splitter is going to run over $10K.

Cheers,
George

lol, most buying an F12 don't care if it beats a Dodge around the track

It is an F12, it doesn't have to.

Family friend has an F12, it is HOT

 

[jsd512]

The f12 does not have to beat the Viper? Explain that kind of position. This car is a colossal failure, even more so than the Viper. Of course, that is my opinion. 322K, car should **** the Viper in every category. Good for Ferrari, being able to build a poor performing car and get 322K for it. Jesus, status is the only selling point?

 

[SnakeBitten]

Pretty cool car and video. Some design ugliness in the bodywork but it seems modern Ferrari's just dont have the elegance they used to design wise. I wouldnt judge this car against a Viper or vice versa. Different animal.

 

[ViperSmith]

The f12 does not have to beat the Viper? Explain that kind of position. This car is a colossal failure, even more so than the Viper. Of course, that is my opinion. 322K, car should **** the Viper in every category. Good for Ferrari, being able to build a poor performing car and get 322K for it. Jesus, status is the only selling point?

listen troll, no one cares what your mindless opinion.

 

[jsd512]

Answer the question. BTW, not a troll. If I need to be, I can be. I'll leave it to you. Calling someone a troll just because they play devils advocate, is pretty weak. Besides, you have no idea who I am. Watch who you judge.

 

[former345bhpLS1]

Impressive car, I also figured it would be faster, but these numbers continue to highlight the limits of F-R (front/mid-engine - Rear drive) cars in a straight-line. Can only put so much down through the rear tires even with modern rubber.

The big surprise is the weight, which is also the likely answer on the lap times. 4003 lbs! Funny that Ferrari quotes a dry weight of 3362 and curb weight of 3593, I guess that doesn't include the fluids...and the the interior...and the transmission...

Still a beautiful car and very fast.

The f12 does not have to beat the Viper? Explain that kind of position. This car is a colossal failure, even more so than the Viper. Of course, that is my opinion. 322K, car should **** the Viper in every category. Good for Ferrari, being able to build a poor performing car and get 322K for it. Jesus, status is the only selling point?

Well...hard to call it "poor performing" when it has the most powerful normally aspirated engine in production (or ever for a real manufacturer??) and runs low 11s @131 mph. It's definitely not a failure, because it will sell very well, make lots of money for the company, and be tremendous fun to drive. That's the real objective. I think you can safely claim that there is little to no correlation between MT Laguna Seca lap times and vehicle profits.

Though that does raise another important question. The F12 is a "colossal failure" because it is not faster than the Viper at Laguna Seca and the Viper is also a failure even with the lap record at Laguna Seca...so what constitutes success?

 

[ViperSmith]

Answer the question. BTW, not a troll. If I need to be, I can be. I'll leave it to you. Calling someone a troll just because they play devils advocate, is pretty weak. Besides, you have no idea who I am. Watch who you judge.

No you are a troll. You have trolled the Gen V forum since you joined with constant negativity.

Go away.

 

[DMan]

Randy hot lapped the GT500 almost a full second faster. Let's say no one cares if it beats the viper but you'd think someone with an Italian sounding last name would be wincing a little by running slower than an American muscle car with a solid axle. But it's like comparing a timex to a Rolex, the timex keeps better time but the Rolex looks cooler and makes you look also cooler. LoL

Neat vid. I know there are F fans that are as passionate about these babies like crazy, it's all good. Personally, I don't get it, but then half the world doesn't get my love of the viper so go figure.

 

[SRTviper]

You guys the f12 is not a dedicated track car it is a every day DD ferrari. 2nd even a california doesn't have to beat a viper, it is a ferrari plain and simple. It really doesn't matter if it is slower or not. If you are a bench racer who only cares about 0-60 and track mag times then exotic ownership is not for you. Just buy a zr1 or viper because nothing will be faster for cheaper.

 

[vancouver-gts]

Friend of mine has a 599 GTB, less power than the F12 but not by much. He couldn't care less if a Viper would beat him or not, he cares more about the quality that is put into these cars. Would never see his car at the drag strip that's for sure.The V 12 pulls hard from stop about 3.6-3.8 sec 0-60 but doesn't have the low end torque of the Viper, it feels linear like a superbike pull. He's quite surprised how hard my car pulls from stop but I have 4.10 rear so no surprise there,lol. I can imagine how the F12 could have performed at LS if it was put on a diet to match the weight of the Viper.
Overweight is a huge penalty when checking HP per tonne stats. Another friend's Ultima GTR's 2.5 sec 0-60 time is proof of that.

 

[DMan]

You guys the f12 is not a dedicated track car it is a every day DD ferrari. 2nd even a california doesn't have to beat a viper, it is a ferrari plain and simple. It really doesn't matter if it is slower or not. If you are a bench racer who only cares about 0-60 and track mag times then exotic ownership is not for you. Just buy a zr1 or viper because nothing will be faster for cheaper.

Disagree there a little bit. I wouldn't own one not because I'm a bench racer focused on mag stats, I hit the track over a dozen times a year in the cars & the bikes, I just don't get spending that kind of cash on something that's slower than plenty of other cars, unless you're just totally in love with the look or are passionate about the manufacturer or haeritage - those two things I get for sure. Guys who buy these and never as much as push the car are like Rolex buyers IMO, they just want to be seen in it. Which is fine, not judging, but it's not my thing, but like I say, my stuff isn't most people's thing so it's karma, lol.

Like was posted above, I agree that mostly no one considering to pick one of these up is weighing it against the viper, GT500 or GTR at all, let alone on perf numbers ... they're either just crazy about the car for their own reasons and want it, or just want to be seen driving it, either way, I understand it.

 

[BigDawg]

Ferrari is artwork. That is how you are supposed to look at it. Sure performance is important to an extent, but that's not why most Ferrari owners I know buy them. It is handcrafted excellence.

 

[01viper4me]

We all have our reasons of why we buy a car, so I understand why some people buy a Ferrari. That being said, Ferrari used to stand for the pinnacle of engineering and performance. They were also extremely exclusive and rare. Guys used to have to modify their street cars to hang with Ferrari. Now Ferrari is still priced for exclusivity; however, they produce more than 4,000 every year. So now they cost hundreds of thousands more than other cars, don't perform close to some of the competition (with the exception of the Enzo or LaFerrari), and they aren't exclusive anymore. So then I look at a new Viper and see a much better looking car (personal taste), a beautiful interior, better reliability, better performance, a true manual transmission and more exclusivity. But to each their own I guess.

 

[v10enomous]

I was at a show over the weekend of all exotics and there were hoards of Ferraris and Lambos and McLarens and other high dollar marques and a lot of their eccentric owners. I enjoyed seeing all of those cars but none of them move me the way the GenV does with it's great curves and monster na motor and huge tires. Nothing against those other cars and the people who own them and I won't generalize too much because I know regular guys with both Vipers and Italian exotics but I just don't relate to that whole scene. Besides I look awful in really tight clothes and pointy leather shoes

We all have our reasons of why we buy a car, so I understand why some people buy a Ferrari. That being said, Ferrari used to stand for the pinnacle of engineering and performance. They were also extremely exclusive and rare. Guys used to have to modify their street cars to hang with Ferrari. Now Ferrari is still priced for exclusivity; however, they produce more than 4,000 every year. So now they cost hundreds of thousands more than other cars, don't perform close to some of the competition (with the exception of the Enzo or LaFerrari), and they aren't exclusive anymore. So then I look at a new Viper and see a much better looking car (personal taste), a beautiful interior, better reliability, better performance, a true manual transmission and more exclusivity. But to each their own I guess.

 

[CA97GTS]

I have seen one Ferrari at the track....a couple of Vipers, a quite a few Vette's. Lot's more Vette's
made, and more F-cars than Vipers.....
Still, I say almost no Ferrari owners track their cars, not a lot of Viper owners, or even Vette owners
compared to how many Vette's are made.
Sure the people on VCA and Alley may track the Vipers more than average Joe, but still low percentage.

Few can drive any of these cars at the level/times that these drivers can do.....
So all this track time stuff if pretty meaningless in real life other than bragging rights .....

I was looking at fast times at Seca, and saw that a Tesla S did a 1:48, not bad for a
all electric behemoth 4 door....
I bet that beats some inexperienced average joe times in a Fcar or even a Viper-

 

[SRTviper]

Disagree there a little bit. I wouldn't own one not because I'm a bench racer focused on mag stats, I hit the track over a dozen times a year in the cars & the bikes, I just don't get spending that kind of cash on something that's slower than plenty of other cars, unless you're just totally in love with the look or are passionate about the manufacturer or haeritage - those two things I get for sure. Guys who buy these and never as much as push the car are like Rolex buyers IMO, they just want to be seen in it. Which is fine, not judging, but it's not my thing, but like I say, my stuff isn't most people's thing so it's karma, lol.

Like was posted above, I agree that mostly no one considering to pick one of these up is weighing it against the viper, GT500 or GTR at all, let alone on perf numbers ... they're either just crazy about the car for their own reasons and want it, or just want to be seen driving it, either way, I understand it.

It isn't about speed again. Speed is there, more than you need on the street which this car is. It may not be faster but it does everything else better. It is an every day super car while the viper still isn't there yet. It is more refined, has a better interior, exterior, engine, you name it. It may not be faster but that is not how you rate the car overall. But yes a lot of people buy ferraris to show off which is understandable too. But I think that mentality applies more to porsche 911s with the exception of the turbo than any other car or brand.

 

[SRTviper]

We all have our reasons of why we buy a car, so I understand why some people buy a Ferrari. That being said, Ferrari used to stand for the pinnacle of engineering and performance. They were also extremely exclusive and rare. Guys used to have to modify their street cars to hang with Ferrari. Now Ferrari is still priced for exclusivity; however, they produce more than 4,000 every year. So now they cost hundreds of thousands more than other cars, don't perform close to some of the competition (with the exception of the Enzo or LaFerrari), and they aren't exclusive anymore. So then I look at a new Viper and see a much better looking car (personal taste), a beautiful interior, better reliability, better performance, a true manual transmission and more exclusivity. But to each their own I guess.

Again this is not true. Yes they are not as fast around the track but that doesn't mean they don't perform better. Being able to drive fast without chaos and in a comfortable and predictable manner is better engineering than a car you have to wrestle to go fast in. But again the f12 is not a track car. A 458 would be better to compare. But I doubt many people would choose a viper over a 458. Even people on this board.

 

[CA97GTS]

Rumor is that the C7 did a better time than the F12..... Not posted yet, or confirmed.
If true, that is pretty awesome for a $60 K Vette.

 

[mnc2886]

Rumor is that the C7 did a better time than the F12..... Not posted yet, or confirmed.
If true, that is pretty awesome for a $60 K Vette.

The C7 apparently had a 'Ring run, but that time hasn't been posted yet either that I've seen. Will be interesting....

 

[v10enomous]

Interesting how well American cars fare against the more expensive imports at Laguna Seca.


http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

 

[CA97GTS]

Did not best the F12, but we are talking tenths......and a little better than
the 911.... For so much less $$$...

The thing about the C7 is that in a year or so, discounts will abound, and a Z51 with minimal options
can roll out the door, tax license, everything, at around $60K.
Way more within reach of so many more than double the price 911's, and of course $400 K Ferrari's.......
That's the beauty of the car, attainable -