Fatal Crash on NJ TPK

[Warfang]

Agreed 100%. As soon as I read alcohol was involved, my sorrow for the driver went to zero.

I tend to agree, but just to give the guy a small benefit of the doubt... HOW much alcohol was in his system? I mean if he had one beer an hour before he drove, that's technically having "alcohol in his system." Unless he was hungry and 99 lbs when he drank, that would hardly impair anyone's driving abilities.

Sounds to me like he was an idiot without any help from the booze doing 140 with no seat belts.

 

[Vypr Phil]

Very sad indeed....my condolences to the families.

My sympathy to the truck driver.

My thoughts certainly also go out to the family of the driver; unfortunately, this young man wrecked a good part (maybe the best part) of his life in a brief instant.

Inexperience+Drinking+Speeding+Not Wearing Your Seatbelt=Fatal Cocktail.

This reminds me of a similar situation, but with a much luckier outcome, not so long ago:

http://forums.viperclub.org/showthread.php?t=601634

Why anybody would drive a Viper without seatbelts is totally beyond my understanding......

Like so many of us, I frequently drive my Viper at similar speeds, but am always in full control of my abilities and do only so if the road is wide open and there is no chance of me endangering anyone.

To me, the best and safest way to find your limit and your Viper's limit is to attend Viper Days and repeat the process as many times as you like, for you will always learn new things and become a better, safer and more alert driver.

Any of you reading this thread, if you have not been at "Viper Days", you really don't know what you are missing.

Safe & sane Vipering!

Vypr Phil

PS: An ugly thought just crossed my mind: imagine Lindsay Lohan in a Viper? Then again, she exhibited her less than spectacular driving skills more than once in her AMG MB SL65.....

 

[mike & juli]

Vypr Phil - Like so many of us, I frequently drive my Viper at similar speeds, but am always in full control of my abilities and do only so if the road is wide open and there is no chance of me endangering anyone.

VyperPhil---therein lies the problem!!!! Don't you think these young drivers thought the same thing????? ESpecially their ages--they feel invincible. They also believe they are 'in full control of their abilities'....NOT so at those speeds and alcohol involved. My sympathies are like yours, with the truck driver who had to see this coming at him.
We really NEED to have the Viper Days as you suggested too, to SHOW these young inexperienced drivers HOW to really DRIVE these and all cars.....it's a tragedy that maybe will do some good in waking some 'kids' up....but I'm doubting it....juli

 

[Vypr Phil]

Vypr Phil - Like so many of us, I frequently drive my Viper at similar speeds, but am always in full control of my abilities and do only so if the road is wide open and there is no chance of me endangering anyone.

VyperPhil---therein lies the problem!!!! Don't you think these young drivers thought the same thing????? ESpecially their ages--they feel invincible. They also believe they are 'in full control of their abilities'....NOT so at those speeds and alcohol involved. My sympathies are like yours, with the truck driver who had to see this coming at him.
We really NEED to have the Viper Days as you suggested too, to SHOW these young inexperienced drivers HOW to really DRIVE these and all cars.....it's a tragedy that maybe will do some good in waking some 'kids' up....but I'm doubting it....juli

Well Juli, don’t disagree with you here.

What must be said however is that the Viper is a brutal beast, will turn on you as fast as the white tiger turned on Roy Horn, has no respect for anybody, will reward a competent driver with exhilaration beyond compare but will mercilessly try to dispatch a fool to his grave.

Vypr Phil

 

[mike & juli]

Vypr Phil - Like so many of us, I frequently drive my Viper at similar speeds, but am always in full control of my abilities and do only so if the road is wide open and there is no chance of me endangering anyone.
Well Juli, don’t disagree with you here.
What must be said however is that the Viper is a brutal beast, will turn on you as fast as the white tiger turned on Roy Horn, has no respect for anybody, will reward a competent driver with exhilaration beyond compare but will mercilessly try to dispatch a fool to his grave.
Vypr Phil

EXACTLY!!! Which is why young inexperienced drivers should NEVER be allowed to drive a Viper...or a Z06, they gotta do what we all did, work UP from lower hp cars. You made sense also....so I wasn't disagreeing with you, only pointing out that the driver may have felt the same way you feel when you 'think' you are ' in control '. These can come ass-end around soooooo quickly on ya!!! Hope some of these younger guys or even guys considering a Viper who have NEVER driven one see all of this and make themselves wonder--and then take a driver's course BEFORE attempting to drive a Viper. ~juli

 

[viperchick12]

Very sad situation and I feel for the families

I do however disagree with those of you who do not think that people under 25 should own or drive Vipers

I got my first Viper at age 16 and I still have a Viper at age 25 (and its supercharged). Besides the speeding ticket for going 57 in a 45, I have never had any other accidents or tickets. Sure I have "tested" its limits a few times, but only under more "secure" circumstances (drag strip, etc) and never with someone else in the car with me.

It has nothing to do with age... it is about driver knowledge, skill and ultimately "respect"
and YES you CAN have driver knowledge and skill at age 25

 

[mike & juli]

Very sad situation and I feel for the families
I do however disagree with those of you who do not think that people under 25 should own or drive Vipers
I got my first Viper at age 16 and I still have a Viper at age 25 (and its supercharged). Besides the speeding ticket for going 57 in a 45, I have never had any other accidents or tickets. Sure I have "tested" its limits a few times, but only under more "secure" circumstances (drag strip, etc) and never with someone else in the car with me.
It has nothing to do with age... it is about driver knowledge, skill and ultimately "respect"
and YES you CAN have driver knowledge and skill at age 25

Kudos to you for probably being one of the very few youngest drivers of a Viper!!! They demand respect, and it seems you are one of the ones who would give that....more power to you! That IS encouraging to read that. ENJOY! ~juli

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

Very sad situation and I feel for the families

I do however disagree with those of you who do not think that people under 25 should own or drive Vipers

I got my first Viper at age 16 and I still have a Viper at age 25 (and its supercharged). Besides the speeding ticket for going 57 in a 45, I have never had any other accidents or tickets. Sure I have "tested" its limits a few times, but only under more "secure" circumstances (drag strip, etc) and never with someone else in the car with me.

It has nothing to do with age... it is about driver knowledge, skill and ultimately "respect"
and YES you CAN have driver knowledge and skill at age 25

Well congrats because you are the exception and not the norm.

"It has nothing to do with age... it is about driver knowledge, skill and ultimately "respect"
and YES you CAN have driver knowledge and skill at age 25

Actually it has everything to do with age. With age comes experience and wisdom. It's just that your perception of each is different. You can indeed have driver skill at age 25 that is no doubt, but imagine how much skill you will have when you get more time behind the wheel. And while you do know to take it to the track for "testing the limits", how many do not? We read and see the stories of people street racing and the vast majority of these individuals are in the age group discussed above.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

It has nothing to do with age... it is about driver knowledge, skill and ultimately "respect"
and YES you CAN have driver knowledge and skill at age 25

You're a chick. Chicks typically don't do go hot rodding around stupidly like guys do. Typically. Usually. Mostly.

 

[mike & juli]

You're a chick. Chicks typically don't do go hot rodding around stupidly like guys do. Typically. Usually. Mostly.

oooooooooooooo, not so fast!!!! THIS chick has done all the same things you 'guys' have done!~! Why do you think I'm on these forums?!! ~juli
(but you are correct--typically/usually/mostly--at least the gals I know, also)

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

You have to wonder what possessed him to be so utterly irresponsible.

Irresponsible about what - 21, married with a kid on the way? - or 4am, no seatbelt, drunk at 140mph?

 

[mike & juli]

Irresponsible about what - 21, married with a kid on the way? - or 4am, no seatbelt, drunk at 140mph?

EXACTLY!!!! ~juli

 

[Warfang]

oooooooooooooo, not so fast!!!! THIS chick has done all the same things you 'guys' have done!~! Why do you think I'm on these forums?!! ~juli

...to spread good cheer, invoke flowery thoughts, and clean up after us?

(sooooo kidding! I'm soooo in trouble, but it was soooo worth it!)

 

[TSR6]

People under 25 should not own or drive a Viper period.

Age has nothing to do with it. It's the knowledge, skills and maturity, or lack there of for the individual regardless of the number of years they have been around. There are a lot of people under age 25 that shouldn't drive a Viper, or any high horsepower car. But there are also just as many people over the age of 25 that I wouldn't trust with a 4'****** mini-van let alone a Viper. Age means nothing.

I do however disagree with those of you who do not think that people under 25 should own or drive Vipers

It has nothing to do with age... it is about driver knowledge, skill and ultimately "respect"
and YES you CAN have driver knowledge and skill at age 25

Exactly. I first drove a Viper at age 17, learned how to drive a manual in the mall parking lot. After one circut around the mall, took it out on the street. Took the same Viper to prom at age 18, and still drive that same viper quite often to this day ( im 22 now ). But thats OK, the Viper is a piece of cake to drive compared to my circle-track race car.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

My condolences to the family and those affected with this horrific crash.

I tell my kids "nothing ever good happens after midnight".

Seat belts are like my penis, I always have it on when I drive.

Too many mistakes made here, and often only one is enough; speed, impaired, no seats belts, inexperienced, young and invincible.
So tragic,
A proud dad of 18 and 14 boys

 

[SnakeBitten]

My heartfelt condolences to all involved yes even including the driver....He did an unbelievably stupid thing and got tagged and cost a loved one their life...We all do stupid things when we were young and yes that includes driving drunk..Yes even good people do stupid things..Most of us however never got this sevare a penalty....Am I condoning his choice???Hell no....but it wont be an easy life for him anymore and not just because of possible jail time......Hes got to live with the fact that his stupidity cause the death of someone he loved....that to me is worse than the jail sentence.....He must be in much deserved anguish right now.....Just imagine the pain his family is going through....There wont be forgiveness for him for a long time.....His suffereing will last longer then when his jail term is up......Wouldnt wish this on my worse enemy...

BTW it isnt just Vipers that the inexperienced drivers kill themselves in....We got several recent deaths in our car community involving 350z's.....Much less dangerous than a Viper but mix any decently powered car with teenagers or imaturity and there is a recipe for disaster....I wouldnt buy my teenager[if I had kids] a 350z much less a Viper....If they were to buy it on there own then Id say a prayer everytime they took it out....Again my sympathies to all parties involved...

 

[valentine_viper]

This one really hits close to home for me... literally. I also have a red '04, live in NJ and drive on the turnpike regularly. Why does it always seem to be the red ones??

Hate to say it, but anyone who thinks they can drive at 140 mph on a public road and be totally in control is kidding themselves, even if they are stone cold sober and have the driving skills of Louis Hamilton. Way to many uncontrolable varibles on public roads; other traffic, debris in the road, animals, *** holes, and a hundred other unexpected possibilities.

Save that kind of driving for the track, period.

That said, my deepest condolences to the families involved.

Be safe!

 

[mike & juli]

...to spread good cheer, invoke flowery thoughts, and clean up after us?
(sooooo kidding! I'm soooo in trouble, but it was soooo worth it!)

Good one, Warfang!!~~!! You are SO in trouble!! ~juli

 

[viperchick12]

I guess I had a small "advantage" in my younger years because I was able to practice driving some of the used cars that were traded in. I know when I was 11 (and the Vipers had first been introduced), I took an old 5-speed Dodge Avenger and put about 2,000 miles on it learning how to drive a manual.

My parents also made me attend Skip Barber Driving School in Sebring, FL, before even considering turning me loose in the Viper. Not saying that a 2-day driving school will make you the best, most experienced driver by any means, but I did learn a lot and it definately made me understand the importance of respecting the vehicle I was driving.

The funniest part of the whole 2-day experienced was the last event in which they let us autocross race the Vipers through a very small track that was set up and I beat a professional autocross driver by 1/10th of a second on my lap time.

About 2 months later, I was cruising around town in a 94 RT/10. I actually drive more carefully in the Viper because I don't want anything to happen to it. I have found myself endangering my own life and health in my other vehicles much more than in my Viper.

 

[DodgeViper01]

I wouldnt drive my viper 5 ft without a seatbelt on. Scares the **** out of me when I hear about stories like this.

Exactly. The car is too fast to not wear seatbelts.

 

[DodgeViper01]

People under 25 should not own or drive a Viper period.

...but they can drive 400HP Civics? That comment makes no sense.

 

[DodgeViper01]

Very sad situation and I feel for the families

I do however disagree with those of you who do not think that people under 25 should own or drive Vipers

I got my first Viper at age 16 and I still have a Viper at age 25 (and its supercharged). Besides the speeding ticket for going 57 in a 45, I have never had any other accidents or tickets. Sure I have "tested" its limits a few times, but only under more "secure" circumstances (drag strip, etc) and never with someone else in the car with me.

It has nothing to do with age... it is about driver knowledge, skill and ultimately "respect"
and YES you CAN have driver knowledge and skill at age 25

Very well said.

 

[Fast Viper]

People under 25 should not own or drive a Viper period.

I could see where you're comming from, but I totally disagree. It's people like this that make the younger folks look bad. Whether he was a good driver, or a bad driver, he was an intoxicated driver. And that says it all. Don't Drink and Drive!

 

[HYPRVYPR]

I think we can all agree that each case and each person should be judged on their individual merits. My 18 year old son has racked up 3 speeders in the last 18 months. He has been hounding me increasingly to take my '02 GTS out, especially since he found out I've got an '08 on order. (I guess he figures the '02 doesn't mean anything to me anymore??). In his case, I would sooner turn him loose in a shopping mall with an *** than give him the keys to my Viper. It is, as we all agree, an unforgiving beast and is still teaching me a thing or two, even after over 30 years of driving some very fast cars.

 

[Vypr Phil]

This one really hits close to home for me... literally. I also have a red '04, live in NJ and drive on the turnpike regularly. Why does it always seem to be the red ones??

Hate to say it, but anyone who thinks they can drive at 140 mph on a public road and be totally in control is kidding themselves, even if they are stone cold sober and have the driving skills of Louis Hamilton. Way to many uncontrolable varibles on public roads; other traffic, debris in the road, animals, *** holes, and a hundred other unexpected possibilities.

Save that kind of driving for the track, period.

That said, my deepest condolences to the families involved.

Be safe!

Valentine Viper,

I appreciate and respect your comment but will offer a counterpoint.

Hate to tell you this but in Germany, 140 mph is an average cruising speed for many cars, and yes, people are in complete control because they have to meet much tougher requirements and thresholds for passing a driver’s test. Another issue is that in Europe people understand the protocol of high speed driving, are much more respectful of other drivers and above all, check their rear view mirrors constantly, even when driving down the autobahn at 160 mph, because even then, there may still be somebody faster than you. And over there, the left lane is for passing only, not mindlessly daydreaming at the wheel.

I grew up over there, got my initial driver’s license there, still travel there once in a while, and would never feel in any kind of danger at 140 mph. Actually, after slowing down from 190mph to 140mph, you really don’t feel like you are going fast. However when I drive at these speeds here, I get annoyed at feeling guilty for going so much above our speed limits.

On a final note, I would rather drive 200mph on the autobahn than 100 mph on any of our SoCal freeways.

Just my $0.02, mostly a matter of perspective ……

Vypr Phil

 

[F4PHANTOM]

Well, yes I've driven drunk before, yes I've driven 195 MPH before(not drunk), but no I've NEVER driven without my seat belt on. Someone said above that the kids think it is "new cool" to drive without belts on...well sorry no sympathy here...that is just STUPID!...thin the herd.

 

[F4PHANTOM]

Valentine Viper,

I appreciate and respect your comment but will offer a counterpoint.

Hate to tell you this but in Germany, 140 mph is an average cruising speed for many cars, and yes, people are in complete control because they have to meet much tougher requirements and thresholds for passing a driver’s test. Another issue is that in Europe people understand the protocol of high speed driving, are much more respectful of other drivers and above all, check their rear view mirrors constantly, even when driving down the autobahn at 160 mph, because even then, there may still be somebody faster than you. And over there, the left lane is for passing only, not mindlessly daydreaming at the wheel.

I grew up over there, got my initial driver’s license there, still travel there once in a while, and would never feel in any kind of danger at 140 mph. Actually, after slowing down from 190mph to 140mph, you really don’t feel like you are going fast. However when I drive at these speeds here, I get annoyed at feeling guilty for going so much above our speed limits.

On a final note, I would rather drive 200mph on the autobahn than 100 mph on any of our SoCal freeways.

Just my $0.02, mostly a matter of perspective ……

Vypr Phil

Agree 100%.

 

[propsail]

Valentine Viper,

I appreciate and respect your comment but will offer a counterpoint.

Hate to tell you this but in Germany, 140 mph is an average cruising speed for many cars, and yes, people are in complete control because they have to meet much tougher requirements and thresholds for passing a driver’s test. Another issue is that in Europe people understand the protocol of high speed driving, are much more respectful of other drivers and above all, check their rear view mirrors constantly, even when driving down the autobahn at 160 mph, because even then, there may still be somebody faster than you. And over there, the left lane is for passing only, not mindlessly daydreaming at the wheel.

I grew up over there, got my initial driver’s license there, still travel there once in a while, and would never feel in any kind of danger at 140 mph. Actually, after slowing down from 190mph to 140mph, you really don’t feel like you are going fast. However when I drive at these speeds here, I get annoyed at feeling guilty for going so much above our speed limits.

On a final note, I would rather drive 200mph on the autobahn than 100 mph on any of our SoCal freeways.

Just my $0.02, mostly a matter of perspective ……

Vypr Phil

Except we're not talking about the autobahn, we're talking about driving in a country that gives licenses away like it's a birth right. After all, we can't even parallel park ourselves. Now the cars have to do it for us. Some States now permit the elderly to drive "only" at certain hours of the day because it's too dangerous for them to be on the road during rush hours. I'm sure your confidence in your abilities is probably well deserved, however, I wouldn't be so trusting of everyone else on the road.
My .02

 

[gtsviper]

Interesting responses on this thread....
21 yrs old + 140mph+ alcohol=an idiot
If he wasn't driving a Viper few would have noted this and they wouldn't get much sympathy. I feel sorry for the parents of the kid who died, the widow and future child of the idiot driver and his parents. I may feel sorry for the passenger but if he was drinking also (at 17) then he might have presented the same danger to other drivers in the future. Don't get me wrong...I've done a lot of stupid things as a kid and have been very lucky to have skated but I sure didn't do them in a Viper....I might have been dead too.
Just another point of view.

 

[Mike Dolan]

As idiotic as the drivers actions appear, I don't think any of us want them to receive capital punishment, which is pretty much what the passenger received.

It's pointless to try and speculate what the drivers thoughts were, and almost all of us have done foolish things in our life, especially when we were kids.

It does make me wonder though what was going on though for a couple of kids to be out drinking & driving a Viper at 4AM.

Regards,
Mike Dolan