Fender bender. Now I wish for ABS.

[AviP]

I had a minor fender bender today. I was changing lanes at around 30mph when the traffic in front of me stopped abruptly. My line of sight was blocked by a butt-ugly H2 and I skidded into an ML500 at under 10mph. The front bumper has paint damage and the left headlight is out of alignment.

All along I was happy not to have ABS, but now I feel the need for it. Is is easy to convert a non-ABS car to ABS?

-Avi

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

No easy ABS conversion.

 

[JonB]

Is is easy to convert a non-ABS car to ABS? -Avi

Not easy.
But it IS about $9000.

Sorry for your grief, and LMK if I can help w/ a nice OE facia......

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Skid? Fronts, fronts & rears? (I know, I have an agenda... )

 

[VIPERCANE]

Those damn H2s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Blamed for everything from destroying the eco to causing accidents.

 

[DodgeViper01]

Yeah the conversion is around 9K. It is EXPENSIVE and totally not worth it. Just upgrade for that money.

 

[jimandela]

Tom has the plan!
congrats Tom!
all non abs should consider his mod.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

ABS will not stop your car any sooner than non-ABS. The advantage of ABS is that it allows you to lay on the brakes while maneuvering without spinning out. Compare the stopping specs from a 2002 Viper to any of the previous years and you will not see a significant difference if any.

At 30mph a Viper's steering wheel can be turned pretty d*mn sharply and the big meats will still hold. I’m guessing you probably had no way out – curbs on one side, cars on the other? Sorry ‘bout the bad luck, could of happened to anybody.

 

[Dimitrios]

sorry to hear. as long as no one got hurt ans you are fine. thats GTS of yours looked sweet. get that baby fixed.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

ABS will not stop your car any sooner than non-ABS. The advantage of ABS is that it allows you to lay on the brakes while maneuvering without spinning out. Compare the stopping specs from a 2002 Viper to any of the previous years and you will not see a significant difference if any.

At 30mph a Viper's steering wheel can be turned pretty d*mn sharply and the big meats will still hold. I’m guessing you probably had no way out – curbs on one side, cars on the other? Sorry ‘bout the bad luck, could of happened to anybody.

Sorry Dead wrong. ABS definetly will stop your car sooner, as it goes to the threshold of your tires ability to grip, to stop you as quick as possible. Now if he did not SKID, then he didnt use the breaks enough that ABS would have helped, but he SAID HE DID skid, so they would have helped. Chuck, have you ever stomped the breaks in an 01-02 ABS and then did it back to back with say a 2000 ?? I did, ask John Freeman. Big difference.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Chuck, have you ever stomped the breaks in an 01-02 ABS and then did it back to back with say a 2000 ?? I did, ask John Freeman. Big difference.

No, I haven't personally made the test. Did you do several runs with ABS and without, measure the difference and average them, or was it SOTP? The slightest difference in reaction time will result in a significant difference in stopping distance from 60mph.

I am reiterating what was said by instructors at the Justin Bell racing school. I have also researched the stopping distances between the years and 122ft 60-0 was what I found throughout 92-02.

I knew this would start a debate. Maybe I'll dig up a few flatspotters I have laying around and do my own test. LOL

 

[DodgeViper01]

A little fight erupting here. I always thought ABS stopped you sooner, at least that is what the mags have said and what I have experienced. Just my .02

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I always thought ABS stopped you sooner, at least that is what the mags have said and what I have experienced. Just my .02

It might, but I don't know how significantly. Nobody ever bragged about how much more stopping power the ABS Vipers had over previous years. It wasn't until the SRT came out when folks really got impressed.

Here are two articles with Viper specs...

The 97 60-0 is 124 feet.
http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars_trucks/1997/8/showdown_new_muscle_cars/print.phtml

The 02 60-0 is 122 feet.
http://www.fast-autos.net/dodge/dodgegtsfinal.html

If anyone has more documentation I'd like to see it.

 

[GCHDEALER]

My understanding of ABS was to enable you to steer the car in one direction or the other while applying full brakes. If you do not have ABS and apply full brakes you will start to skid and even if you turn your wheels you are still heading strait, until you release the brake pedal. ABS does not lock up this giving you a fair chance to steer out of a situation.

 

[Viperfreak2]

ABS will stop a bad driver much faster. Someone who has professional track experience will be able to stop a non-abs car MUCH shorter by threshold braking.

That said: The right front always locked up on my 99 making me lift to keep from bald-spotting the tire or spinning. The GTS had ABS and was much 'easier' to stop, but not a shorter distance. The SRT is the best! Of anything! The sophistication of the ABS system makes as much a difference as the bigger rotors/pads/etc. How quickly the system can detect and control the locking wheel is critical. Try the anti-locks in a early Saturn.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I think the ABS or not discussion assumes the brake system and vehicle weight is already reasonably well balanced, front to rear or side to side. On OEM setups, it's not. How many of us have StopTech brakes, corner weight the car, 40mm rears, different pads, disabled prop valves, etc, etc?

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

I always thought ABS stopped you sooner, at least that is what the mags have said and what I have experienced. Just my .02

It might, but I don't know how significantly. Nobody ever bragged about how much more stopping power the ABS Vipers had over previous years. It wasn't until the SRT came out when folks really got impressed.

Here are two articles with Viper specs...

The 97 60-0 is 124 feet.
http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars_trucks/1997/8/showdown_new_muscle_cars/print.phtml

The 02 60-0 is 122 feet.
http://www.fast-autos.net/dodge/dodgegtsfinal.html

If anyone has more documentation I'd like to see it.

Chuck, both interesting articles, really enjoyed the first one. The problem is, the 1st one seems legit, with serious attention paid to the testing, the second one, almost seems like the stats were just pulled from previous versions. Meaning the second one, talks nothing about actually testing those stats. Another important thing, is these were done by two different groups, with two different set of test equipment. I would expect a more acurate test to be one, where both cars were tested on the same section of track, at the same time, same conditions, same measuring equipment. I soon will be unable to participate in a "stock" breaking show down, as I have 4 way stop techs en route. But if anyone locally wanted to "see" the difference, I would be more then happy to show them. ABS is not just about turning and breaking. Its about shortest distance possible to stop in, within the max allowable traction.

 

[cayenne]

Even though it 'may' stop you sooner...it sure doesn't FEEL that way...I can't stand that choppy feeling when they kick in...I feel in less control with them. But, just a personal opinion...

C

 

[slaughterj]

Skid? Fronts, fronts & rears? (I know, I have an agenda... )

Tom, would your 40mm rear caliper piston solution work the same on Gen2s?

 

[Big Medicine]

ABS is for suckers.

 

[thebigsnake]

H-2 are butt-ugly.

 

[AviP]

ABS does not necessarily result in shorter stopping distances but just more consistent stopping distances, especially in the crappy driving conditions in NY. Add to that my lack of good braking control.

I was at Le Mans in 1998 to watch the Vipers. At that time, production GTSs didn't have ABS but the race GTS-Rs had ABS. I was shocked and asked the race drivers about it. They all stated that it was because of the consistency. And who were those race drivers: Justin Bell, Olivier Beretta and Tommy Archer to name a few.

 

[AviP]

Skid? Fronts, fronts & rears? (I know, I have an agenda... )

Front wheel skid. Can you explain your mod? Are they diferent calipers? Can the same effect be acheived with a different proportioning valve/setting?

 

[Viperfreak2]

Even though it 'may' stop you sooner...it sure doesn't FEEL that way...I can't stand that choppy feeling when they kick in...I feel in less control with them. But, just a personal opinion...

C

Try a new BMW at full anti-lock (from any speed). Not much in the way of noise or pedal kick. I watched an M5 come down from about 180mph to avoid hitting a fool who pulled into the autobahn fast lane without REALLY checking his mirrors. Needless to say, smoke rolling off all four tires for 5 seconds of full braking........no accident. My heart stopped just watching it!

How do I know he was doing about 180? I was doing 200kph (125mph) and he passed me like I was sitting still. I know what all the cars with the 155mph limit chip look like passing me. This guy had the chip disabled.

ABS is not for suckers.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Suckers are people who cant appeciate something that is TRULY better. ABS is better then NON.

But yeah, Dodge went through all the trouble to put ABS on the Viper, because they had nothing better to do.

Jon

 

[Achilles99]

There is a BIG difference for average drivers, even above-average, drivers...

ChrisGTS and I demonstrate the beauty of ABS everytime we autocross together. I lock up my wheels, and he doesn't

Sure, if you could PERFECTLY threshold brake everytime, then you wouldn't need ABS. Even the pros can't do that (case in point-Michael Schumacher's incident in Monaco).

I'm actually seriously debating on selling my 98 GTS and getting an 01 or 02 GTS...

 

[Big Medicine]

Performance cupholders are handy too. I wouldn't say you need them, if you are watching where you are going.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Slaughterj, The "40mm calipers" are simply modified OEM Gen 1/Gen 2 Brembo calipers. The process increases the piston size from the stock 36mm to 40mm, so you get more rear braking capacity. They bolt on just like OEM brakes, fit the same, don't have to cut anything off, and in fact, just by looking at the outside, you can't tell.

AviP, no, you can't adjust the proportioning, because you don't have enough rear brake to start with. You can only proportion (limit is a better description) brake capacity downward. Send me your email and I'll send you a little "Fact sheet" about the 40mm calipers.