First day at the track

[SilveRT8]

Local Club had a Track day yesterday and my new GTS had about 900 miles on the clock, so I decided to go and try her out, but taking it easy as I'm a good but not a Pro driver. This was only my 10th Track day overall, 5 with my 08 Viper and 4 with the 12 Caddy CTS-V. Before going in I was a bit nervous as I did not know how the car would react and I had not heard back from many other members tracking the Gen 5 yet, so I shut the AC off put the suspension in Race mode and left Traction control full on. First impressions : WOW !! This car really shines on the Track, it felt at home right from the start. I was amazed at how easy and predictable it is to drive fast, going only about 8/10's. Biggest surprise was how strong the brakes are, finding myself breaking way too early at the beginning and how well it grips in corners, you feel like your driving WITH the car and not against it at all. Race mode suspension felt just right too for an amateur like me, I feel the Pro drivers will prefer a even stiffer set-up, probably like the T/A will have. Power is strong and smooth all the time with enough torque available at all times that I left it in third even through the slower corners but still coming out strong. Total I had 5 sessions of 20 to 30 minutes each and my summary is : Pure joy, Sex on wheels ! As much I as enjoy driving this car on the street, you realize it was designed with the Track in mind, and can only dream what a dedicated ACR would feel like. Even though I took it easy and felt like I did not push the car near it's limits, I was surprised the see the G meeter registering 1.48g one way and 1.25 the other. So for those who have not yet tracked the car, you will simply love it ! Thanks SRT for building my dream car ! Ralph, Merci mon Ami !

 

[ViperSmith]

Claude, great to hear. Did you find the cars power more "accessible" than your other Viper?

 

[JAY]

The G meter display is cool !

 

[johniew398]

Thanks for posting your first day at the track. It sounds like it is easier to control than other generations.

 

[SilveRT8]

Claude, great to hear. Did you find the cars power more "accessible" than your other Viper?

Power feels similar to my 08 with headers and Mopar PCM, but the shorter gearing makes it available right now in a smoother way.

 

[Allan]

Cool.
My old dinosaur car doesn't have a g-meter display like that.
I have to rely on looking at the passenger's face when they get out of the car.

 

[SilveRT8]

Thanks for posting your first day at the track. It sounds like it is easier to control than other generations.

Yes, for me anyway, I felt much more in control, like you're 'one' with the car.
Not being a Pro driver, I was always scared of pushing my 08, spun it on the track once, and now feel very confident in this one.
The car made me feel like I'm a better driver, being able to concentrate more on taking the apex just right instead of trying to control it through the turn

 

[SilveRT8]

Cool.
My old dinosaur car doesn't have a g-meter display like that.
I have to rely on looking at the passenger's face when they get out of the car.

Wait till you see the really good drivers starting to post their G meeters pics. I was taking it easy and felt I was far from reaching the car's limits

 

[CHAP4034]

Hi Claude

I passed by Icar yesterday and I saw your car at the track

You have a very very beautiful car

 

[ViperSmith]

ESC has saved my ass once so far. Spirited driving on back country roads and hit the gas a bit too hard coming out of a turn. Felt the backend kick slightly - but obviously didn't end badly. It is more of a "hey dummy" input.

 

[SilveRT8]

Hi Claude

I passed by Icar yesterday and I saw your car at the track

You have a very very beautiful car

Thanks, I would have liked to meet with you
Next time ask Andras : Where's the old guy with the white pony tail !

 

[kratedisease]

Wait till you see the really good drivers starting to post their G meeters pics. I was taking it easy and felt I was far from reaching the car's limits

Glad you enjoyed your day at the track. That is what the Viper was intended for.

 

[Boxer12]

Off to a good start! Enjoy her like she was meant.

 

[madninjaskillz]

Love the G meter. 1.01 G on skidpad huh? I know the track is a bit different, but **** IT Motor Trend.

 

[VENOM V]

That's awesome Claude, finally some track reports on the Gen V! That's the experience I was hoping you would post. I did some spirited driving up in the hills above my house yesterday and was just digging it!

I'm getting my GoPro dialed in for my maiden track day this Friday, thanks to some nudging from Allan. I'm also going to try out TrackAddict on my iPhone 5. In addition to video, you can record lap times, and it also displays the track layout, speed, G levels, and perhaps other stuff. You can combine those displays with the higher quality GoPro video with RaceRender 2.

A couple of questions:

How does it compare to the CTS-V?
What did you think of the Corsas? I've got the choice of running my standard P Zeros or the Corsas. I'm thinking that for the first track day, I'll do the standard P Zeros, then next time slap the Corsas on. I have two sets of wheels/tires, so I have that flexibility.
Any more track days planned? If you're like me, you will have the urge to track as often as you can, LOL.

Good times!

Todd

 

[SilveRT8]

Hey Todd
To answer a few questions, Yes I did like the Corsas and never felt them overworked or anything wrong. I would definitly use those for the track as that's where they shine.
This was our Club's last track day, so I'm already anxious to go back next Spring.
The CTS-V is a very easy car to track, this one I was able to push it to the limits, but you could feel the weight is a penalty in corners and under hard breaking. It surprised quite a few drivers who did not like seeing a Caddy emblem almost attached to their rear bumpers. The onboard G meeter recorded 1.08 in the Caddy. Fun car for a track day, but more street oriented than Track and not in the same league as the Gen5.

As far as using Cell phone devices, our Club does not allow them for safety reasons listed below. It does take some of your concentration away, mainly the first time on the track in the new car. I do not say dont use it but beware of what happened to others :

SAFETY REMINDER

Here are some interesting statistical facts that we noticed. You won’t need much clarification to understand them !
We noticed a very dangerous tendency with cell phones : drivers use them to measure their performance !
We had several accidents due to these devices in Calabogie and Mont-Tremblant.
It is strictly forbidden to use any type of device to measure your performance during our events.
Especially don’t use those blind devices that tell you “accelerate” into the wall, yes they do …
We will be very strict on this point, NO TIMING device during our events.
Our liability insurance is very clear on this point.
There are racing schools if you decide to time your laps.
If you have an Electronic Stability protection on your car, PLEASE don’t turn it off.
Several guys smashed their cars because they tried to be better than their car computer !
95% of accidents happen with slick tires (Ex: Hoosier).
80% of accidents happen to drivers who try to impress the other participants
70% of accidents happen to intermediates drivers whose experience is less than 20 days on the track. This is equivalent to four years of good track experience.
50% of accidents happen to people who arrived late, after or shortly before the start of the safety briefing.
40% of accidents have happened with a passenger
80% of mechanical failures happen to cars whose preparation was completed 4-5 days before the event.

Those who regularly lap at ICAR or St-Eustache are our safest drivers !
If you have any survival instinct you memorize this information and you will take steps not to fall into these driver categories.

 

[JETSTAR]

Great to see you are enjoying you car the way God and Ralph intended

 

[Bruce H.]

Great to get some owner track feedback, and glad to hear you quickly had a comfort level with it. Still some Calabogie Lapping Days left. I'm looking forward to LCMT on 9/25 and CMP on 9/27.

 

[VENOM V]

Hey Todd
To answer a few questions, Yes I did like the Corsas and never felt them overworked or anything wrong. I would definitly use those for the track as that's where they shine.
This was our Club's last track day, so I'm already anxious to go back next Spring.
The CTS-V is a very easy car to track, this one I was able to push it to the limits, but you could feel the weight is a penalty in corners and under hard breaking. It surprised quite a few drivers who did not like seeing a Caddy emblem almost attached to their rear bumpers. The onboard G meeter recorded 1.08 in the Caddy. Fun car for a track day, but more street oriented than Track and not in the same league as the Gen5.

As far as using Cell phone devices, our Club does not allow them for safety reasons listed below. It does take some of your concentration away, mainly the first time on the track in the new car. I do not say dont use it but beware of what happened to others :

SAFETY REMINDER

Here are some interesting statistical facts that we noticed. You won’t need much clarification to understand them !
We noticed a very dangerous tendency with cell phones : drivers use them to measure their performance !
We had several accidents due to these devices in Calabogie and Mont-Tremblant.
It is strictly forbidden to use any type of device to measure your performance during our events.
Especially don’t use those blind devices that tell you “accelerate” into the wall, yes they do …
We will be very strict on this point, NO TIMING device during our events.
Our liability insurance is very clear on this point.
There are racing schools if you decide to time your laps.
If you have an Electronic Stability protection on your car, PLEASE don’t turn it off.
Several guys smashed their cars because they tried to be better than their car computer !
95% of accidents happen with slick tires (Ex: Hoosier).
80% of accidents happen to drivers who try to impress the other participants
70% of accidents happen to intermediates drivers whose experience is less than 20 days on the track. This is equivalent to four years of good track experience.
50% of accidents happen to people who arrived late, after or shortly before the start of the safety briefing.
40% of accidents have happened with a passenger
80% of mechanical failures happen to cars whose preparation was completed 4-5 days before the event.

Those who regularly lap at ICAR or St-Eustache are our safest drivers !
If you have any survival instinct you memorize this information and you will take steps not to fall into these driver categories.

Holy crap, what does it mean if all of those categories apply to me?

All kidding aside, the guy that caused a two car crash at my last track event was a clown. He wasn't paying attention and wasn't taking things seriously, as if he were playing a video game. Next thing you know, he totalled his S2000 along with a heavily damaging a brand new Audi TT RS.

That 95% statistic is the reason why I'm thinking about starting on the standard P Zeros rather than the Corsas. Street tires are more forgiving and talk to you loudly when sliding. I'm also debating whether to sell the Corsas and pick up some Hoosiers, awfully tempting.

I'm also a big fan of track insurance, no way I'm tracking the Viper without it. Speaking of which, you mentioned something about your club's insurance. Does that also cover the cars, or just something that you damage at the facility?

 

[SilveRT8]

The 95% statistic applies to Non-Pro drivers like you and me who track with slicks, dont do the Hoosiers untill you're a Pro, Corsas are fine.
Only thing different I would try next time is to go in Sport mode to see the difference in behavior. Our track insurance does not cover the cars or damage to the facility, you pay for everything material you break !

 

[VENOM V]

The 95% statistic applies to Non-Pro drivers like you and me who track with slicks, dont do the Hoosiers untill you're a Pro, Corsas are fine.
Only thing different I would try next time is to go in Sport mode to see the difference in behavior. Our track insurance does not cover the cars or damage to the facility, you pay for everything material you break !

I've heard that in recent times they've improved both the R6's and the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups, and the transition from sticking to sliding is more smooth and controlled. I wonder if that 95% stat applies to today's tires. In any case, good advice. Take it slow, work up to it. I will take less chances in the Viper than the Camaro. I drive the Camaro very hard at the track, it is very controllable as you approach the car's limits. I've read you have to be on your game with the Viper if it decides to get squirrely.

 

[Boxer12]

About tire chose for track use. The thing that is misleading about statistics is the tendency to draw 'cause' and 'effect' conclusions. Simple example: If the guys running slicks are driving 10/10's, and the guys running streets are driving 7/10's, of course the most accidents will occur with the guys running slicks who are running 10/10's because there is such a slim margin of error. If you will be running 10/10's, then run slicks because they offer a greater margin of error at the edge (whereas street tires will tend to give away sharply, slicks don't). Also, forget about the tire squealing noise to judge your speed or something, it won't help you in the middle of a corner. JMO!

 

[DMan]

Holy crap, what does it mean if all of those categories apply to me?

All kidding aside, the guy that caused a two car crash at my last track event was a clown. He wasn't paying attention and wasn't taking things seriously, as if he were playing a video game. Next thing you know, he totalled his S2000 along with a heavily damaging a brand new Audi TT RS.

That 95% statistic is the reason why I'm thinking about starting on the standard P Zeros rather than the Corsas. Street tires are more forgiving and talk to you loudly when sliding. I'm also debating whether to sell the Corsas and pick up some Hoosiers, awfully tempting.

I'm also a big fan of track insurance, no way I'm tracking the Viper without it. Speaking of which, you mentioned something about your club's insurance. Does that also cover the cars, or just something that you damage at the facility?

You can get trackday insurance on your car itself. I did this for VOI12, it can be had for any trackday that doesn't involve timing, the timing is critical as mentioned above, if there's any timing, even if it's not competitive, then there's no isurance coverage, so for ex you can't get it for drag racing even just for a track rental/tuning because every run is timed. I'd have to look up the cost, it wasn't bad actually and there was a VCA discount. I admit I don't get trackday insurance on my GT500, which is what I mostly track. If I had a new gen5, I'd agree, I'd consider the track insurance a cost of playing and opt for it every time it's available.

 

[TrackAire]

Hey Todd
To answer a few questions, Yes I did like the Corsas and never felt them overworked or anything wrong. I would definitly use those for the track as that's where they shine.
This was our Club's last track day, so I'm already anxious to go back next Spring.
The CTS-V is a very easy car to track, this one I was able to push it to the limits, but you could feel the weight is a penalty in corners and under hard breaking. It surprised quite a few drivers who did not like seeing a Caddy emblem almost attached to their rear bumpers. The onboard G meeter recorded 1.08 in the Caddy. Fun car for a track day, but more street oriented than Track and not in the same league as the Gen5.

As far as using Cell phone devices, our Club does not allow them for safety reasons listed below. It does take some of your concentration away, mainly the first time on the track in the new car. I do not say dont use it but beware of what happened to others :

SAFETY REMINDER

Here are some interesting statistical facts that we noticed. You won’t need much clarification to understand them !
We noticed a very dangerous tendency with cell phones : drivers use them to measure their performance !
We had several accidents due to these devices in Calabogie and Mont-Tremblant.
It is strictly forbidden to use any type of device to measure your performance during our events.
Especially don’t use those blind devices that tell you “accelerate” into the wall, yes they do …
We will be very strict on this point, NO TIMING device during our events.
Our liability insurance is very clear on this point.
There are racing schools if you decide to time your laps.
If you have an Electronic Stability protection on your car, PLEASE don’t turn it off.
Several guys smashed their cars because they tried to be better than their car computer !
95% of accidents happen with slick tires (Ex: Hoosier).
80% of accidents happen to drivers who try to impress the other participants
70% of accidents happen to intermediates drivers whose experience is less than 20 days on the track. This is equivalent to four years of good track experience.
50% of accidents happen to people who arrived late, after or shortly before the start of the safety briefing.
40% of accidents have happened with a passenger
80% of mechanical failures happen to cars whose preparation was completed 4-5 days before the event.

Those who regularly lap at ICAR or St-Eustache are our safest drivers !
If you have any survival instinct you memorize this information and you will take steps not to fall into these driver categories.

Very informative list. I hate when guys come in late or miss most of the morning meeting....I always wonder if they fully understand the passing rules, etc....makes me nervous to be on the track with them.

I'd like to add a couple more things that I've found cause issues.

-Brakes...either they overheat, fade, rotors break, anti lock wigs out, etc....but this is often a recipe for going through the corner and into the wall, etc.

-Fluid on the track.....one of those things that can make you wreck even though you were doing everything correct. Usually results in wrecks at braking points or at corners. Just a chance you take on the track. Hopefully the flaggers see the issue and throw up the warning flag.

-Fatigue, both physical and mental....you'd think by the 4th or 5th session you'd be running faster because of more track time. I often see people start to completely miss apexes, braking points, etc. Physical fatigue can be part of the issue but it is usually mental fatigue and lack of concentration. If you miss a couple of apexes on a single lap, bring it in and think about it. Skip a session, sit in an air conditioned room, have something to drink and relax. Not worth wrecking yourself or somebody else because you want to get as much track time as possible.

Cheers,
George

 

[TrackAire]

You can get trackday insurance on your car itself. I did this for VOI12, it can be had for any trackday that doesn't involve timing, the timing is critical as mentioned above, if there's any timing, even if it's not competitive, then there's no isurance coverage, so for ex you can't get it for drag racing even just for a track rental/tuning because every run is timed. I'd have to look up the cost, it wasn't bad actually and there was a VCA discount. I admit I don't get trackday insurance on my GT500, which is what I mostly track. If I had a new gen5, I'd agree, I'd consider the track insurance a cost of playing and opt for it every time it's available.

There was a thread on the fordgtforum a while back discussing track day insurance and making sure you don't under-declare the value. Does anybody have experience in this and what these guys are discussing regarding to losing your car:


"Just called Lockton to discuss how this insurance program would pay out for a loss.

First this is "my" understanding and not the official "word"... For that each policy holder would have to call and talk with Lockton themselves.

The policy requires a 90% "Stated Value" from KBB, Edmunds, etc .

The pricing is based on the "Stated Value"... approx 60/10k..

In the event of a total loss, they would pay a maximum of 100,000...

The difference between "Stated Value" and the 100,000 would be the owners loss..

They would take the car...

So, someone insuring for 105,000 ( 5k deduct) would pay approx 630 dollars and another for 200,000 would pay 1200 dollars.. they would both get 100,000.

They would both lose there cars.

If people "under state " there value, They could (maybe) reduce the 100k by the percentage of undervalue, or worst.

There policy does not have language that specifically states this, but if people started to do this, they would probably write it into the policy..

They probably don't insure a lot of cars valued above 100k for "Rally" events. My guess..

Again, for clarification : call Lockton (866) 582-4957"

I know that the Ford GT's value is usually upwards of $180k, but a new fully optioned GTS is right at $150K. If I'm understanding correctly, if the max payout is $100k, you'll get that but only if you give them the car in return. Any thoughts on this?

I did a track day last Friday where you could rent a transponder to view your track times. This may be enough to cause your track day insurance to void any claims......read the fine print, insurance companies are very good at covering their a$$es.

Cheers,
George

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Good info George and the part about being tired at the end of the day is probably the most valuable. With many events having four-five 20-30 minute sessions, it is not unusual for folks to run the equivalent of a Nascar Nationwide race in many cases. Two to two and a half hours of track time in a day , especially if warm , will sap folks strength and mentally the focus can become blurred. I run time trials, and it is very rare that anyone improves at the end of the day. Thanks for all the input from you, DMan, and Boxer 12, but let's hope we get plenty more data from Venom V and SilveRT8 on the Gen V at road courses around North America!

 

[Allan White Mamba 200/200]

I have been running R6s on my last three track days. Their feel is vastly superior to Corsa's and are good for about 3 seconds a lap (2.5mi.) Their break-a-way is smooth and controllable. I have been running them 31f/30r hot on about 85* days. Also, no more front end stability problems. I have 12 heat cycles on mine and think they will be ok for about 8 more. Allan

 

[VENOM V]

About tire chose for track use. The thing that is misleading about statistics is the tendency to draw 'cause' and 'effect' conclusions. Simple example: If the guys running slicks are driving 10/10's, and the guys running streets are driving 7/10's, of course the most accidents will occur with the guys running slicks who are running 10/10's because there is such a slim margin of error. If you will be running 10/10's, then run slicks because they offer a greater margin of error at the edge (whereas street tires will tend to give away sharply, slicks don't). Also, forget about the tire squealing noise to judge your speed or something, it won't help you in the middle of a corner. JMO!

I have been running R6s on my last three track days. Their feel is vastly superior to Corsa's and are good for about 3 seconds a lap (2.5mi.) Their break-a-way is smooth and controllable. I have been running them 31f/30r hot on about 85* days. Also, no more front end stability problems. I have 12 heat cycles on mine and think they will be ok for about 8 more. Allan

Great info Allan and Boxer, that's what I was looking for. Mark of Woodhouse also really likes the latest formulation of the R6s on the Viper. I tend to run pretty hard at the track, so I don't think I'll be soft-peddling the Viper after I get used to it.

In the short term, I could either run my street P Zeros or the Corsas. I run in the advanced group, and feel comfortable driving hard. If I run the P Zeros, I could sell the Corsas (they are brand new) and jump straight to R6s. So would you guys run the P Zeros or the Corsas for the maiden voyage?

 

[VENOM V]

Good info George and the part about being tired at the end of the day is probably the most valuable. With many events having four-five 20-30 minute sessions, it is not unusual for folks to run the equivalent of a Nascar Nationwide race in many cases. Two to two and a half hours of track time in a day , especially if warm , will sap folks strength and mentally the focus can become blurred. I run time trials, and it is very rare that anyone improves at the end of the day. Thanks for all the input from you, DMan, and Boxer 12, but let's hope we get plenty more data from Venom V and SilveRT8 on the Gen V at road courses around North America!

Amen to that! Can't wait to see how Halle Berry does when she's really *******, LOL

 

[Allan White Mamba 200/200]

V5, It would probably be good to run at least one weekend with the the Corsa's. If your feeling good about car and your skill level, then move on to the R6s. If you run the Corsa's hard you will soon find their limits. Most important - be SAFE! this car is very strong and it's a MUST to find it's limits in all situations before pushing to hard. Best of luck, Allan