First ticket in the Viper.....CA owners, I need advice!! Help!

[ghayes420]

ok so here is the story...there is a abandoned naval base in the city I live in, Alameda,CA. I have taken the Viper out to this (now city owned) naval base on several occations to take full advantage of the very wide old runway strip. This is a safe spot to run, I often will see others out there as well. This is in a non-residential area and the only business nearby is a health club that backs up to the runway. So I am out there,not goofing off, but simply testing out the new mods that I added. I did not even spin the tires as instucted by my tech with the new rear end for the first 500 miles. On the third pass I was up to about 125mph and here comes a city cop with lights-a-blazin. I was scared shitless, I thought he was going to tow me. He asked me if I new how fast I was going. Being an idiot and scared out of my mind, I cooperated as politely as possible. "about 100 I said." Admitting guilt like a scared bunny rabbit with a shotgun to his head. He proceeded to tell me that somebody from the health club called and complained about cars running fast. Remember there were others before me that day, they just stopped to watch me run. He told me that he could tow my car and take me to jail. By this time ***** is starting to go down my leg. He left to let me sit in my ***** stained pants while two more cops show up and have a round table discussion as to my fate. Here is the real kicker....as they were talking a mother and her two kids come out to ride bikes from the health club to the middle of the runway to talk to the police. Having a family of my own I circled the runway twice to make sure there were no people nearby. He came back and gave me a ticket for a "misdomeanor reckless driving" and tried to say that there were children nearby which is complete crap. To be specific, the ticket reads only "23103(b)- Reckless driving off street facility". Nothing mentioning speeds or anything else. I have to go to court on Dec 14th. I want to know what I can expect. Can I go to traffic school to get this off the record? Is this going to be points for sure against my record? How big is the ticket going to be?

Has anybody in CA ever dealt with this? Thanks for all your help!

 

[Jim Wilson]

Not sure, but if you were not on a city street, I don't think they can legally ticket you.

 

[VPRVENM97]

Sorry to hear that....

Short answer to your question, get a lawyer for this one.

Abandoned runways are often used for Autocrossing or driver training classes. In those cases public access such as pedestrians, bicyclists, etc. are restricted and the organizers have authorization from the property owner / manager. Not sure about the runway at Alameda NAS but first of all did you have permission from the people in charge of the airstrip? And second, if you were to lose control at 100 MPH, could a reasonable and prudent person say that absolutely no one in the area was in danger?

Reckless Driving

23103. (a) Any person who drives any vehicle upon a highway in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty of reckless driving.

(b) Any person who drives any vehicle in any offstreet parking facility, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12500, in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty of reckless driving.

The key element is "willful and wanton disregard for the safety...." The State has to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. This is where you need an attorney to speak for you. You'll need documentation such as distances and photographs.

23103 CVC is a misdemeanor and probably not eligible for traffic school and yes, it would probably be a couple points but you'll have to check with DMV to find out exactly how many.

 

[Camfab]

Sorry to hear that....

Short answer to your question, get a lawyer for this one.

A good lawyer will get it reduced to a one point ticket or less.

 

[VPRVENM97]

Ok, looking at 12500(c) CVC the runway may not qualify as "off street parking facility"

12500 (c) A person may not drive a motor vehicle in or upon any offstreet parking facility, unless the person then holds a valid driver's license of the appropriate class or certification to operate the vehicle. As used in this subdivision, "offstreet parking facility" means any offstreet facility held open for use by the public for parking vehicles and includes any publicly owned facilities for offstreet parking, and privately owned facilities for offstreet parking where no fee is charged for the privilege to park and which are held open for the common public use of retail customers.

Like I said, get a lawyer, you might have a defense because the courts may view the State as not having all the elements of 23103 (b) CVC

 

[ghayes420]

Thanks for the advice. I was hoping I could avoid the lawyer, but apparently not. I can say that yes, without a doubt no other persons or property was in danger of my actions, even at 100mph, unless i passed out at the wheel and swerved a 1/4 mile off the airstrip and into the health club. What worries me about fighting this is 1.) I admitted (idiotically) to speeding and gave him my speed 2.) Those kids starting riding out on their bikes to see what was going on and three officers will testify that there were children present at the scene.

So I am not too confident about my chances here...that's why i am on the fence about getting a lawyer.

Thanks again for your advice.

 

[Vic]

Tell the judge the truth, that the kids were attracted by the huge commotion and spectacle made by the police, but prior to that time there wsn't anyone within a 1/4 mile.

 

[Warfang]

Tell the judge the truth, that the kids were attracted by the huge commotion and spectacle made by the police, but prior to that time there wsn't anyone within a 1/4 mile.

Yeah... the truth is the only thing that is going to get you out of this one. Having a lawyer will help too. Either way you look at it, you'll get at least a point. The old airfield is not for the public to do test runs on their modded cars. "That's what drag strips are for" is what they'll say. I know the Porsche club have autocrosses there every now and then, but they have an ambulance on hand, insurance for the event and most likely a city permit. I know people that film there all the time, and they get a permit for every outing.

Did you tell the cop it was bogus... that the kids only came after the commotion he and his pals made? Not that they would listen, but it would have been worth a shot.

Never be afraid of cops (unless you're a felon)... don't be dumb and mouth off, but they're not a hair more special than you are.

 

[Carleton]

Start Here: Alot of good ideas.

http://www.ticketassassin.com/index.html

 

[ghayes420]

Hey Carleton, have you ever tried this or heard of anyone who used this ticketassassin.com? I am interested.

 

[Gerald Levin]

Lawyers are like dentists, most people avoid them to the max. But when the shiite hits the fan, if you have the finances, there is no better cure for the pain that you could be faced with than to bite the bullet and hire the professional. You don't have much choice. Spend the cash, get out of pain and get this resolved professionally.

 

[Abq Bill]

Try

http://www.motorists.org/issues/tickets/index.html

Good Luck

 

[KMODStang]

Reckless driving in NJ is a 5 point ticket. If you went to traffic school in NJ it takes off 2 points. IDK what it is in Cali, but im sure its similar. Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[SoCal Rebell]

Call "Traffic Ticket Assist" they specialize in this sort of stuff. They are located in Glendale and have gotten me off of 3 tickets, they are good, will cost you around $400. 818-244-4447, they also go by Law Offices of Robert A. Koenig & Associates. You can use my name as a referral Ron Wasserman.

Believe me, save yourself alot of grief, call them, they are not too far from you. "Reckless" is a 2 pointer, that's bad.

 

[Carleton]

Hey Carleton, have you ever tried this or heard of anyone who used this ticketassassin.com? I am interested.

My best friend is right now using this site to contest a ticket where the cop said he went thru a red light. This was a big intersection where the yellow is only a 2 second light.

 

[ghayes420]

I thought I would update the few of you interested on what happened with this case:

I found out that an attorney would cost me $2000 - $3000. I used the referals above along with referrals from my friend who is an attorney in SF (unfortunatly does not do traffic cases) and the above price is accurate. My friend even made a few calls to the DA himself to see if he could get the charges reduced over the phone but was unsuccessful. He spoke with another DA from an adjacent county and she suggested that I just go represent myself. I did a little research and came to court this morning. I told the judge I was going pro per and pleaded NOT GUILTY. This is technically true as read by law as noted above by VPRVENM97 for a 23103b. The DA talked with me that same day about a plea deal. HE tells me that in the police report, the arresting officer reported I was going between 120-150mph (completely false) and that there were bystanders within 40 feet of my car at that time (also completely false). I told the DA, first this was not parking lot and second there were no people present. I said that I was willing to go to trial if necessary. He offered to reduce the charge from a misdomeaner to a speeding infraction. This would only be a 1 point violation. I told him I would accept the deal if and only if they allow for traffic school to remove the point from my record. He agreed and so I had to pay $500 for the speeding ticket and $29 for traffic school. So after some research (thanks to Carleton for the ticketassasin.com website, they helped alot) I ended up paying $529 for no points. This is better than the $3029 I would have paid for an attorney and got the same deal. I am quite upset that my local law enforcment, that I pay my taxes to, would flat out lie to the DA to try and get their charge convicted. A-holes.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for their help and advice in getting this matter resolved. Happy Holidays

 

[Warfang]

I thought I would update the few of you interested on what happened with this case:

I found out that an attorney would cost me $2000 - $3000. I used the referals above along with referrals from my friend who is an attorney in SF (unfortunatly does not do traffic cases) and the above price is accurate. My friend even made a few calls to the DA himself to see if he could get the charges reduced over the phone but was unsuccessful. He spoke with another DA from an adjacent county and she suggested that I just go represent myself. I did a little research and came to court this morning. I told the judge I was going pro per and pleaded NOT GUILTY. This is technically true as read by law as noted above by VPRVENM97 for a 23103b. The DA talked with me that same day about a plea deal. HE tells me that in the police report, the arresting officer reported I was going between 120-150mph (completely false) and that there were bystanders within 40 feet of my car at that time (also completely false). I told the DA, first this was not parking lot and second there were no people present. I said that I was willing to go to trial if necessary. He offered to reduce the charge from a misdomeaner to a speeding infraction. This would only be a 1 point violation. I told him I would accept the deal if and only if they allow for traffic school to remove the point from my record. He agreed and so I had to pay $500 for the speeding ticket and $29 for traffic school. So after some research (thanks to Carleton for the ticketassasin.com website, they helped alot) I ended up paying $529 for no points. This is better than the $3029 I would have paid for an attorney and got the same deal. I am quite upset that my local law enforcment, that I pay my taxes to, would flat out lie to the DA to try and get their charge convicted. A-holes.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for their help and advice in getting this matter resolved. Happy Holidays

Great to hear!

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Score one for the good guy! Congrats!

"I am quite upset that my local law enforcment, that I pay my taxes to, would flat out lie to the DA to try and get their charge convicted. "

Sad? Yes. Surprising? No.

 

[VPRVENM97]

Glad to hear that you got it resolved.

I still believe that the State's case lacked the "Corpus delicti" or body of the crime. The DA should not have even filed on this case and you were given a deal because they knew they didn't have a case. Plea bargaining is like playing poker. He had a weak hand and was bluffing to see if you would fold first. Since you were in pro per he probably figured he could out bluff you. Would you have a good chance of beating it in a jury trial? Probably. Is it worth your time? Probably not.

You did good, congrats!

 

[propsail]

QUOTE: "Sad? Yes. Surprising? No."

...that light was yellow, I swear; I wasn't speeding, officer,honest; I wasn't talking on the cell phone, not me, officer; honestly, I only had 2 beers; Oh,no officer,those aren't my drugs in the car, etc., etc, etc.

 

[Leslie]

Yes, you can get out of it if you have the cahoonaas $$$$

I was going 120+ on a KY highway with another sports car, passed a van which HAPPENED to have a state trooper in it with his kids. He called his buddies and they were waiting for me and my friend at our exit, they had guns drawn and made us sit in our cars for about an 1/2 hr while a buddy of mine (NY cop) tried to talk them out of impounding our cars and throwing us in jail.

They let us go on 'reckless driving', but he didn't know our speed since he was off duty.

We hired a lawyer to handle it, $1K, never went to jail, never went to court, no points, NOTHING. It was all taken care of with one call.

Should have been 6 pts on our record from what we were told!

 

[99 R/T 10]

Above are two current police officers on this board, VPRVENM97 Whom I have met and have great respect for. He was instrumental in not trying to get ghayes420
out of an infraction persay, but to educate him on his options/rights in the matter. He has my utmost respect!

Then there is propsail............................

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

QUOTE: "Sad? Yes. Surprising? No."

...that light was yellow, I swear; I wasn't speeding, officer,honest; I wasn't talking on the cell phone, not me, officer; honestly, I only had 2 beers; Oh,no officer,those aren't my drugs in the car, etc., etc, etc.

I have no doubt cops put up with crap like that ALL the time, but in this case, when the cops arrived they could see the scene and see that noone was within 40' of the Viper. The owner even ADMITTED going 100mph or so. Just because policeman have to put up with excuses all day long that doesn't mean they should nail the one guy being honest and make up lies on him. I honestly believe most cops are good people, some just have their priorities out of whack.

 

[propsail]

QUOTE: "I have no doubt cops put up with crap like that ALL the time, but in this case, when the cops arrived they could see the scene and see that noone was within 40' of the Viper. The owner even ADMITTED going 100mph or so. Just because policeman have to put up with excuses all day long that doesn't mean they should nail the one guy being honest and make up lies on him. I honestly believe most cops are good people, some just have their priorities out of whack. "


My only point is, I don't know GHAYES420 at all. I also don't know the cop. Who's telling the truth, I have no idea. So in this particular case I don't take one side over the other. That's all I'm saying. No offense intended toward anyone.

~Craig

 

[VPRVENM97]

Hey Mike, thanks! You coming out to the PRK to visit the folks this year?

 

[XS TORQ]

Just FYI - I used ticketassasin.com about 18 months ago, and I beat my ticket.
Sorry about the late reply, but thought I'd chime in anyway.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Hey Dave,
No, doing my last year in the Army in Sinai, Egypt. Will have 20 and time to call it quits. In the sping of 08, I am planing on driving from Chicago (RTE 66) to LA. Spend some time with family in the south, then up the coast on PCH to the bay area. Maybe we can hook up then,

 

[VPRVENM97]

Hey Dave,
No, doing my last year in the Army in Sinai, Egypt. Will have 20 and time to call it quits. In the sping of 08, I am planing on driving from Chicago (RTE 66) to LA. Spend some time with family in the south, then up the coast on PCH to the bay area. Maybe we can hook up then,

Mike,
Enjoy your time with the Pharoahs. Watch our for guys running around with vests on and shouting, "Allahu Akbar."

That should be an awsome drive on RT 66. Let me know when you're coming to town. First round's on me. Be safe and keep the rotor side up.

 

[Triple7]

Here in the totally screwed up state of Georgia we have a violation called "laying drag". If you spin your tires in your own driveway you can be ticketed for this moving violation. My 18 year old son was ticketed for spinning his tires on his GMC HD2500 in an empty parking lot. It cost him $500 for a lawyer that made it all go away. I learned way back in 1988 (after getting nailed drag racing on the street in my '87 Grand National) that with a traffic offense in which no injury or damaged is caused, paying the right lawyer the right amount of money takes care of it. After all, all the judges and 90% of the legislators in this country are lawyers.