Fluids and How many Quarts?

[yekta]

I can't seem to find a thread with this topic for my second gen. I was hoping to find a pinned thread that listed what brand, type of fluid is needed, and how much of it.

I am looking to flush all the old fluids and replenish them all as I de-winterize. Located in PNW, my car is an 02 RT/10

Here is what I am going for so far, please correct me if I am wrong, and feel free to pin this to the top if it is helpful for everyone

Engine Oil, Mobile1 15W50 of 12 quarts? (Chose it for its extra zinc content)
Brake Fluid, Motul 660 of 2 quarts? (The last thing I want failing are brakes)
Coolant, Mopar 50/50 Premix Antifreeze of 2 gallons? (after reading so many threads decided to go with factory recommendation)
Transmission Fluid, Mopar Manual Transmission Lubricant of 4 quarts? ( same idea as the coolant)
Diff Fluid, Mopar Gear Oil? How many quarts?

Cheers

 

[MoparMap]

Some of it will depend on what you want to do with the car.

That oil seems awfully thick to me, but I guess it depends on your climate and engine condition. I think 5W-20 is what I run in my gen 3 and was the factory fill. 12 quarts is also a little extra. Pretty sure it's only 10.5 qts (or just call it 11) with a filter change.

As for the brakes, isn't 660 race fluid? That might actually not be the best idea on the street. My understanding was that it was more temperature resistant, but also more likely to absorb moisture. I've just used a general DOT 4 in the past, but don't think you can really go wrong with any option as long as it's fresh. 2 quarts sounds like an awful lot, but guess it depends how you want to bleed it. Pretty sure 1 quart would be plenty.

Not sure on the gen 2s, but I believe the factory fill on the gen 3 coolant is Zerex G05, just packaged in Mopar bottles and tinted differently. At least that's what I put back in mine when I did my engine rebuild and maybe one fill before that and it's been working well. I think the earlier cars might use something different though. 2 gallons sounds about right though, especially if you're only doing a radiator style flush.

On the transmission fluid front, you have two main options. The original cars used Dexron III I believe, but later switched to the Mopar lube (which is Castrol Syntorq). The change was mostly to address the "neutral gear rattle" noise more than more protection as I understand it. Just about every other T56 based transmission in the world uses ATF and seems to work fine. The Mopar/Syntorq can be really hard to find and quite expensive, so ATF is a decent backup option. I emailed Tremec and asked them their recommendation when I put a T56 in my 67 Dart and they just said ATF. 4 quarts is what I see in my service manual.

I don't know what the actual diff fluid is though. That's one I've yet to find the manufacturer for. I've just stuck with the Mopar stuff as well, but make sure you get the friction modifier to go with it. Service manual says 45 oz or ~1.5 quarts. Says 4 oz of friction modifier, but most just dump the whole bottle in as I think it's maybe a 6 oz bottle or something.

 

[yekta]

Thank you that was very informative

 

[MO_Better]

I would say for the brake fluid, if you are doing a complete flush 2 quarts actually might not be enough. This is because its hard to know when you've gotten to the fresh fluid if the fluids are similar in color (so you have to overdo it, which is unfortunately a bit wasteful). I think I used 3 quarts last time I did it just to make sure. Even better though, when possible its helpful to pick a different color fluid so its obvious (which is why ATE Super Blue brake fluid is formulated in both Blue and Gold color as well - makes it very easy to flush). As for Motul 660, it is DOT 4 and doesn't necessarily absorb moisture any differently than any other fluid, so it should be fine for the street - the recommendation to flush it frequently mainly comes from extreme conditions that it is subject to when racing. HOWEVER it is pretty expensive and I would agree that it is overkill for the street. But it you track your car, it's a good choice.

Just my two cents, but of course as with all advice, take it with a grain of salt!

 

[Steve-Indy]

yekta, congrats on your Gen II (2002 R/T 10).

You are getting some great info here from experienced guys who are always willing to share their knowledge. If you do not have a 2002 owners manual and a 2002 service manual, I would strongly suggest that obtain them.

The problem with posting a list of "fluids" is that many of the OEM "factory fill) fluids have been discontinued by Mopar and the original manufacturers. To further complicate matters, Mopar seems to change part numbers, names, and package designs every few years making finding the correct fluid difficult.

Then there is the problem with manual misprints, conflicts between service manuals and owners manuals, mistakes, and "carry-overs" from older models that are very hard to decipher unless one has all of the manuals, TSB's as well as inside contacts, and a parts guy who handles enough Vipers to know ( and care) about these issues.

Another issue is not just generational, but running changes within generatIons. One cannot afford to make guesses in this area.

Yes, it takes a lot of extra effort to keep all of these fluid related issues up to date...noting that all of my comments revolve around OEM "factory fill's"..with many exceptions being made for extreme duty uses(racing) or climate extremes.

If you have a specific question or difficult time selecting a "proper" fluid (or a safe replacement/ substitute fluid), feel free to call me. 317 402 9013

Finally, there are fluids that "seem" to be correct...but can be harmful...so, careful and do your research.

Have a great Spring with your new ride !!

 

[yekta]

Very insightful and great answers, thank you all for taking the time to reply.

Steve, you wrote it beautifully, and thank you for providing your cell, really means a lot. I've been researching a lot and I can understand what you are talking about as I've had years of t-56 (camaro, corvette) background and raced on these platforms.

I just hate to re-create a thread and go over something that has already been discussed in the past. Hate being that guy

Cheers and happy spring to us all!

 

[tophermecier]

The ATF vs 75w-85 manual trans lube has been a decades old debacle for the transmission and you’ll leave all the research with a bit of an open end. As others stated and sort of unofficially, you can run either. Tremec’s own manual says to run a Dextron III ATF, but to ultimately follow the Vehicle Manufacturer specification. I definitely get the feeling that the T56 would run on vegetable oil at this point! JK JK

Gear Noise and Clash was the reason behind Dodges TSB in 1998 and cars thereafter came with the 75w-85 Castrol Syntorq. My 1999 GTS service manual states to run 75w-85 and does not recommend ATF due to higher temperatures inducing the gear noise. Some trans builders will give you mixed signals; some say ATF and some say higher HP and speed applications should use the thicker fluid due to EP additives that help prevent gear wear.

I’ve run both, trans feel was maybe a bit less notchy in cold conditions with ATF. If I hadn’t done the work, I wouldn’t have known any better what was in it honestly. Ultimately, I follow the service manual and run the 75w-85, which is also in line with Tremecs own manual (follow the vehicle manufacturer).

FYI - 4 quarts will cover you. Mine took about 3.75q to start dripping from the fill hole.

Rear diff took about 1.4q. Take your time and really try and get all that old
fluid out when you extract, since these Gen 2 cars don’t have a drain plug.

While you’re under there, bleed your clutch. It’s often overlooked and my fluid looked good in the reservoir but was disgusting at the slave. Dirty fluid can ruin a slave cylinder.

 

[kssssnake]

I've always bled brakes with a clear hose attached to the bleeder and run it into a clear quart jar. You can see the fluid change color when the new stuff comes through. On most vehicles you can gravity drain the reservoir through the left front to get started.

 

[tophermecier]

+1 on the clear hose. If it’s a simple flush, a Mitivac vacuum bleed is great for this and no mess. I find that when you have air in the lines, a good ole power bleed with someone on the pedal works best.

The clutch is tough one to use a hose on. I use a small clear measuring cup tucked under the bleed valve to catch fluid as someone pushes the pedal. I can see the fluid getting clear through the bottom of the cup.

 

[littlecaars]

Good afternoon fellow snake lovers. I have a question concerning the clutch operation. After starting the car cold, the first shift is difficult to engage. Subsequent shifts are smooth and shifting with the engine off are smooth. To me, this indicates a slight drag on the clutch disk as a result of the pressure plate not fully releasing. This is a problem that I’ve had from purchase two years ago and it does not seem to be getting any worse. This is usually indicative of a weak slave cylinder. My question is would it be possible that it is also caused by old or contaminated fluid? Should I try a system bleed before dropping the transmission and replacing the clutch assembly? This is on a 2008 vert. The vehicle has 17K miles on it. Thoughts?

 

[tophermecier]

No leaks? Not losing fluid? I would definitely try a bleed. Old fluid with moisture can definitely become less effective at transferring pressure and who knows, you may have a bubble. A good bleed/flush before pulling the trans for the cylinder is worth the shot. You could bleed the master for the sake of being sure. You can likely pull the inspection cover and check for proper clutch disengagement as well.

The car not easily engaging 1st or reverse well is a symptom of it not fully releasing or dragging so slightly. You may notice the car almost tries to move a hair when you engage the gear from neutral on level ground. I had this with my Z06 and a faulting master cylinder.

 

[littlecaars]

Thank you, tophermecier. I think I will take your advice. I was looking for it to change over time in that it would slightly motivate when I put it in gear standing still. But that never happened.

 

[tophermecier]

Good Luck!

 

[Kevin M Melisz]

Ironically, I am in the middle of flushing my clutch fluid in my 2008. The car has only 12k on it and I didn't have any issue prior to flushing, just saw it was black and did it just for maintenance reasons. I was able to easily remove and refill the system by gravity bleeding. Everything seemed to work great, clean new fluid flowing out of the bleeder, however I can't seem to get pedal pressure back. It is as if I have a pocket of air stuck in the system. I have tried bleeding the system, as if I was bleeding brakes and still no luck. I have left the car over night and have no leaking out the slave cylinder, again leading me to air stuck in the system.

Any suggestions or help to getting the air out? Any advice is appreciated.

 

[MoparMap]

I found my bleed line didn't work all that well to begin with. It ended up coming out of the threads at the base of the bleeder stalk, making a bit of a mess. You'd still see that as a drip from the inspection panel though, and it wouldn't change you pedal issue. Just something to check if you aren't seeing fluid out of the bleeder itself.