Front Splitter for Gen II?

[dave6666]

Grcforce327 has Steve's splitter installed on his Gen1. I'm going to be installing Steve's splitter on my GenII over the winter, probably in February. I'll post pics/how to when I get to it. Here's Grcforce327's splitter side show: http://rides.webshots.com/slideshow/579898603VTBbvY

Very nice looking.

Zee'ster... Insert comments about "aircraft pop rivets" and "slinkys" here -->> [ _____________ ]

 

[ZYellow01RT]

It wasn't really that difficult. I drew a line 1" inside of the outside edge of splitter. Then drew second line 2" in from outside edge. Then drew 45% angle between the two lines where I thought they looked good on the car. Sanded the edge smooth and painted with "Rally black" paint.

Gorgeous...great job. I may do a similar mod to my AF as well someday if I start seeing damage due to the extended "lip" on the splitter. So far I've been lucky in that respect.

Your AF splitter is the Daytona version, correct?

 

[bluesrt]

 

[ZYellow01RT]

You are simply a ***** LOL. Your flimsy stick-on "ground effects" are sure winning the popularity contests here!

Are you seriously back?

*sigh*...here we go again...having to respond back to Mr. Sensitive.

Would it make you feel more comfy if I hammered/drilled/screwed/pounded/splayed/welded/whatever more on my splitter like you did, David?

I'm looking to make you happy. We're all trying to be just like you.

 

[ZYellow01RT]

Autoform's real splitter is quite a bit nicer than the garage-hatched/hack sawed/pop-riveted/"I hit a curb at 40 mph but I'm still happy" model. Looks good!

Fixed it for you, amigo.

 

[bluesrt]

 

[ZYellow01RT]

Your cereal is done and your bottle is warm. *Feeding time*

You are either entirely dumb or just being the back end of a mule about it. Only an idiot would take your text as a compliment. The rest of us have an IQ above 14 and can see the insult.

Let's see...so far the names are "dumb", "idiot", "*****".... unfortunate that you have carried the VA mentality to a classy VCA thread. Any other names you want to share?

Still don't understand why you consider the word "homemade" as in insult, if it's all that and a bag of chips.

You missed the point of my last question entirely.


Tell you what....I'll give you another chance to "splain" here ---> [ ].

 

[ZYellow01RT]

Very nice looking.

Zee'ster... Insert comments about "aircraft pop rivets" and "slinkys" here -->> [ _____________ ]

Aw geez, David...haven't we been through this already?

Please use the search function so that I don't have to repeat myself.

 

[KNG SNKE]

Honestly Dave has one of the best looking splitters for the Gen 2.

 

[ZYellow01RT]

Honestly Dave has one of the best looking splitters for the Gen 2.

It's all a matter of taste. Our opinions can all be expressed here without personal attacks on other versions. This is the VCA thread and not VA.

It started out as a gentle poke and obviously went too far. Let's all get back on the high road and get this thread back on track.

Mr. Sensitive - apologies for any digs. Was never intended seriously anyway.

Carry on.

 

[ViperTony]

Gentlemen, please let's help the OP with his splitter decision and refrain from the insults. I mean, if you're going to insult each other at least do it right over at the alley where the name-calling creavity really gets interesting. But seriously, the OP is simply looking for splitter recommendations. On that original topic, I'd rank Dave's Splitter #1, Steve's #2 and Autoform #3. Time-permitting I would try to fabricate a splitter ala Dave style. At one point, I had spec'd out a nice fiberglass sheet from McMaster. The design process ended there, lol.

 

[dave6666]

It's all a matter of taste. Our opinions can all be expressed here without personal attacks. Not cool.

Coming from the guy that made the first personal attack in this thread.

Wow. I feel dumbed just responding to you.

 

[bluesrt]

 

[ZYellow01RT]

Coming from the guy that made the first personal attack in this thread.

Wow. I feel dumbed just responding to you.

You should. You're the one who took it way too personally and started down the low road.

We can't all be like you. Don't be so sensitive to other peoples' input.

But whatever...apology issued anyway. Now run along.

 

[bluesrt]

 

[KNG SNKE]

OP, look up 97snk's car. He has a custom splitter on it and it is the one that I plan on recreating for my car.

 

[dave6666]

The Red RT is me ..... I view the screws as sacrificial given that the splitter being lower and projected out scrapes a lot. I like the look, but more like the fact that the cables attach it to the frame so at speed, the splitter pulls the car down, not the fascia. Additionally, Steve said that he can make a track extension for mine similar to the ACR track extension .... functionality rules

You have to remember, that even though the splitter may deform the pliable fascia, it is still generating down force. The only thing that would dictate that a very rigidly mounted blade, versus a blade that deforms / deforms the bodywork, that either one of those would generate different levels of down force than the other, would be the gap between the blade and the fascia changing, and the distance from the road surface to the blade.

Most of the blade type splitters I have seen do not fill the gap between the blade and the body. This probably creates drag. Just guessing there. Also guessing that as the blade is forced down and the gap widens, the drag there increases. Don't know how that affects the aero under the car though, as 1/4 to 1/2" lower of the blade should change the air under there quite a bit.

Although I've never qualified my design in a wind tunnel, I did close the gap to the body and made it very rigid to the body. If I would have attached it t the frame that cantilever would have minimal structural enhancement that distance out in my opinion. I also did the SRT type cutout in the front, but if I had gone with the full profile like many are, I would have used cable supports. Too much down force on the bigger blade.

 

[PDCjonny]

I was under the impression that a front splitter without a corresponding functional wing to balance the air pressure will only destabilize a car at higher speeds.

 

[dave6666]

I was under the impression that a front splitter without a corresponding functional wing to balance the air pressure will only destabilize a car at higher speeds.

You are not incorrect that you have heard that. I have also. Part of the reason I went with the SRT profile was to reduce effectiveness. I also though have side splitters and a good sized rear diffuser. Does all that "balance?" No clue.

 

[ZYellow01RT]

You have to remember, that even though the splitter may deform the pliable fascia, it is still generating down force. The only thing that would dictate that a very rigidly mounted blade, versus a blade that deforms / deforms the bodywork, that either one of those would generate different levels of down force than the other, would be the gap between the blade and the fascia changing, and the distance from the road surface to the blade.

Most of the blade type splitters I have seen do not fill the gap between the blade and the body. This probably creates drag. Just guessing there. Also guessing that as the blade is forced down and the gap widens, the drag there increases. Don't know how that affects the aero under the car though, as 1/4 to 1/2" lower of the blade should change the air under there quite a bit.

Although I've never qualified my design in a wind tunnel, I did close the gap to the body and made it very rigid to the body. If I would have attached it t the frame that cantilever would have minimal structural enhancement that distance out in my opinion. I also did the SRT type cutout in the front, but if I had gone with the full profile like many are, I would have used cable supports. Too much down force on the bigger blade.

Doubt that any minute gaps between the blade and fascia creates any measureable drag, unless the gap increase results in turbulent (vs. laminar) air flow at speed. Of course, one of the factors you didn't mention was the performance differences between materials (i.e., carbon fiber vs. fiberglass), and how the former material would flex far less than the latter. At higher speeds, the more rigid blade material (estimated shear modulus at 2.0 GPa or greater) would likely keep any turbulent air flow to a minimum, regardless of any initial gaps.

 

[dave6666]

Doubt that any minute gaps between the blade and fascia creates any measureable drag, unless the gap increase results in turbulent (vs. laminar) air flow at speed. Of course, one of the factors you didn't mention was the performance differences between materials (i.e., carbon fiber vs. fiberglass), and how the former material would flex far less than the latter. At higher speeds, the more rigid blade material (estimated shear modulus at 2.0 GPa or greater) would likely keep any turbulent air flow to a minimum, regardless of any initial gaps.

I would speculate that the gap on the stock nose, coupled with a flat blade type diffuser, of which that gap in car aero terms is "huge," that the air flow there is quite turbulent.

Regarding material properties, the 3/8" thick FRP that I used does not flex at all in the direction of imposed force. At all. It's tested.

 

[ZYellow01RT]

I would speculate that the gap on the stock nose, coupled with a flat blade type diffuser, of which that gap in car aero terms is "huge," that the air flow there is quite turbulent.

Regarding material properties, the 3/8" thick FRP that I used does not flex at all in the direction of imposed force. At all. It's tested.

All polymers flex. The question is at what force.

Is your 3/8* thick material actually "CFRP" (carbon fiber reinforced polymer), or is it actually "FRP" (standard pultruded fiber reinforced plastic)? Big difference in shear moduli (i.e., rigidity).

For reference, the CFRP measures ~ 3750 GPa , while the FRP is magnitudes lower (~ 1.3 - 5.0 GPa). Still damn stiff, but the difference between the two materials is substantial.

 

[Fatboy 18]

MINE

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[ZYellow01RT]

You've got some serious aerodynamics going on there, bud. Looks great.

 

[dave6666]

All polymers flex. The question is at what force.

Is your 3/8* thick material actually "CFRP" (carbon fiber reinforced polymer), or is it actually "FRP" (standard pultruded fiber reinforced plastic)? Big difference in shear moduli (i.e., rigidity).

For reference, the CFRP measures ~ 3750 GPa , while the FRP is magnitudes lower (~ 1.3 - 5.0 GPa). Still damn stiff, but the difference between the two materials is substantial.

Great stuff. I'm sure my mom would be impressed. But after 30 years in engineering, I'm able to sift through what matters and what doesn't. Your points don't matter in this discussion in regards to the stresses on the fascia and it's members and the materials used to build them.

Um, how thick is, and what material is the Autoform stick-on splitter? Sure you won't post it. Just like you won't post how it attaches. I can understaned how it's embarrassing compared to these robust and fully functional units that everyone likes. Whoops, sorry. Most everyone likes.

 

[JonB]

That sure looks like the "Multi-Axis Aero Company" spliiter originally from Houston! Oldie-Goodie for sure.

MINE

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[JonB]

I was under the impression that a front splitter without a corresponding functional wing to balance the air pressure will only destabilize a car at higher speeds.

Some truth to that, depending on the shape and rake, but much more so in the reverse: A rear spoiler or wing, especially an adjustable one, with NO corresponding front downforce, can be dangerous at high speeds. In D6666 case, he has worked hard to 'prevent and evacuate' air from entering or staying under the car, minimizing lifting forces.

A real-world example is an ACR-X with their extra dive planes.... When ONE of em gets knocked off in close combat, the result is understeer-push at the limits, and slower lap times.....

[I think Dave6666 uses DAVE PLANES]

 

[dave6666]

Dave Planes. One (1) cs. (case)

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[Fatboy 18]

That sure looks like the "Multi-Axis Aero Company" splitter originally from Houston! Oldie-Goodie for sure.

Yea, thanks Jon,

I have it fitted with R clips so I can remove it in around 5 Min's, It was fun earlier this year at the Annual Government test center, when we tested the front brakes on the rolling road

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[ZYellow01RT]

Great stuff. I'm sure my mom would be impressed. But after 30 years in engineering, I'm able to sift through what matters and what doesn't. Your points don't matter in this discussion in regards to the stresses on the fascia and it's members and the materials used to build them.

Um, how thick is, and what material is the Autoform stick-on splitter? Sure you won't post it. Just like you won't post how it attaches. I can understaned how it's embarrassing compared to these robust and fully functional units that everyone likes. Whoops, sorry. Most everyone likes.

"30 years in engineering"? Surely not mechanical or structural engineering. Maybe industrial, but based upon your non-data-based assumption, revelations, and downright incorrect statements, you really do entertain me. As for my background in mechanical engineering (actually 30 years also, in design, manufacturing and research, unlike you), I think I am pretty qualified to sift through your diatribe of crapola.

I will give you some reading material and IM you with my last name so you can do a Google search on my patents in the field with which you (once again) proclaim yourself a friggin' know-it-all. IM sent. You wanna trade?

And your statement "your points don't matter in this discussion in regards to the stresses on the fascia and it's members and the materials used to build them"? You're joking right? That's the whole heart of the discussion, Einstein. Did your mom tell you otherwise?

And this Autoform attachment thingie really has you spooked....and am wondering why. Did you have some type of bad experience at the playground when someone took away a splitter-shaped popsicle or something?

Hey, if you want an award for a splitter that is radiation-hardened, 40 mph curb tested, and mommy-approved, I'll hit Kinko's and send a color copy your way. It will say "I acknowledge that David's pop-riveted, home-cooked version is probably stronger than the AF version". Sound good?