Gen 3 throttle body
- Thread starter X-Metal
- Start date
BAD 2TB
Viper Owner
Sign me up. Too good of a deal to pass on!!
Copperhead245
Enthusiast
Same boat (including stocks) - but no regrets here. By the way "Nader", did you figure out what's up with your idle (mine is still dead on)?
I'd like to see "independent" test results as well. Since have no "before" reference and have done other mods as well, if/when I get on a dyno that won't help. But again, no regrets because I certainly did/do feel an improved throttle response - thanks Gary (X-Metal).
Just to be fair to those that might not know, Sean Roe (whom I've bought a few things from) is also selling a TB for considerably less (for a one-off price). I believe Sean claims improved response but not increased HP (which makes some sense to me) - so that's even more reason I'd like to see proof that X-Metal adds HP.
Did I mention "no regrets" - definately worth the bang-for-the-buck...
Ron
No regrets either. definitely better throttle response which is immediately noticeable.
As for my idle, I did get the new tps sensor when it was at Tators. Idle is better but still hangs a bit. Chuck reset my computer and cleared it but not sure if I still need to pull the battery, if that will make the difference. I am going to try that this weekend as well as pull the tb off and reinstall to ensure it is seated correctly. At that point i made try to dial in the volts on the TB using a volt meter. From what I have heard, the volts need to fall within a certain range. I think the engineers said .6 to .8 at idle.
Maybe Gary can chime in here. Since others who have purchased, including yourself, have no problems, that leads me to believe something is off with mine. However I do find it odd that prior to my puchase others have mentioned this problem with other TBs. I think RSI makes one also.
I will get to the bottom of it one way or another.
As for my idle, I did get the new tps sensor when it was at Tators. Idle is better but still hangs a bit. Chuck reset my computer and cleared it but not sure if I still need to pull the battery, if that will make the difference. I am going to try that this weekend as well as pull the tb off and reinstall to ensure it is seated correctly. At that point i made try to dial in the volts on the TB using a volt meter. From what I have heard, the volts need to fall within a certain range. I think the engineers said .6 to .8 at idle.
Maybe Gary can chime in here. Since others who have purchased, including yourself, have no problems, that leads me to believe something is off with mine. However I do find it odd that prior to my puchase others have mentioned this problem with other TBs. I think RSI makes one also.
I will get to the bottom of it one way or another.
B767DRIVER
Viper Owner
I purchased Sean Roe's TB recently and have compared side by side with a friend's x-metal. I will have to say both are of quality craftsmanship. Roe's does require you to remove and reuse stock bearings with which I see no problem. All the necessary items to remove bearings come with the kit. Instructions are very detailed. I don't anticipate it taking more than 20 minutes start to finish to install. I will update you folks tomorrow evening....
B767DRIVER
Viper Owner
Roe throttle body installed today. Took 35 minutes from opening the hood to shutting it. VERY easy install. Removing the stock bearings and reinstalling was very simple procedure with the tools supplied by Roe. Throttle response is greatly improved. Haven't dynoed but will soon. Not expecting too much based on what Roe has told me. No false expectations. Although it does feel stronger...
viperDoug
Enthusiast
I would be interested in a group buy as well. Any insight on this Gary? The holidays are coming and my wife is asking me for ideas.
Thanks!
Thanks!
HI-NOS-Viper
Enthusiast
I would be interested in a group buy on this. Hey Gary, how about Venom membership discount as well? 
viperDoug
Enthusiast
Gary, do you mind if we start a new thread about a group buy, since this thread is very old and most people probably aren't looking at it anymore? What would be the price if we got 25 members to join the group buy?
Hamrhead
Enthusiast
**edited**
i think its a great idea: how about this: we can start a new thread, and
$357 plus shipping for a GB. and we can start shipping next week.
fqberful
Enthusiast
I am also in @ $357 plus shipping.
viperDoug
Enthusiast
This is great Gary! I will start the new thread and let me know when we can start ordering (sending you money). I don't want to cheat you if we don't get enough people, so you let us know when it is enough to start the ordering for this price.
Doug
Doug
HI-NOS-Viper
Enthusiast
I am in as well. Give me the details.
thanks!
i started a GB thread here for us:
http://forums.viperclub.org/tuning/608173-x-metal-thottle-body-group-buy.html#post2460510
viperbilliam
Enthusiast
Has anybody received theirs yet?
BAD 2TB
Viper Owner
I got mine 3 days ago. Number 11 on the list. Already got it on and it looks GREAT.
guys here is where you want to look for shipping updates:
http://forums.viperclub.org/tuning/608173-x-metal-thottle-body-group-buy-6.html#post2473137
redtanrt10
Enthusiast
Put my new TB on yesterday. I'm having some idle issues similiar to what NADER posted awhile back. When I first started up the car, idle was @ 900 which is what mine normally runs when cold (so I thought all OK). Went for a drive later, idle at 900-1000 vs. normal 750 warm. Also idle hangs up around 1,200, etc. Drove car 20-30 miles with 3 re-starts hoping the computer would learn and re-adjust.
NADER sent me a PM back, and suggest I share w/the board and Gary.
His fix; Reset the PCM. To do so disconnect the battery and plugs going to the PCM for a few hours. This will drain all memory. Make sure you disconnect the plugs to the computer, not just disconnect the battery.
I'll try this tonight or tomorrow.
Also, in the written instructions of removing the screws from the throttle shaft it notes there may be burrs on the tips, not just locktite. First 3 were just locktite, 4th must have had a burr. Long story short, 2 hours drilling the screw, finding an open hardware store on New Year's day to find a 6mm tap, after snapping the tip. (Good news the kit has new screws!) Look close at the ends for burrrs!
Throttle response greatly improved! Hoping NADER's tip will fix the idle.
NADER sent me a PM back, and suggest I share w/the board and Gary.
His fix; Reset the PCM. To do so disconnect the battery and plugs going to the PCM for a few hours. This will drain all memory. Make sure you disconnect the plugs to the computer, not just disconnect the battery.
I'll try this tonight or tomorrow.
Also, in the written instructions of removing the screws from the throttle shaft it notes there may be burrs on the tips, not just locktite. First 3 were just locktite, 4th must have had a burr. Long story short, 2 hours drilling the screw, finding an open hardware store on New Year's day to find a 6mm tap, after snapping the tip. (Good news the kit has new screws!) Look close at the ends for burrrs!
Throttle response greatly improved! Hoping NADER's tip will fix the idle.
the throttle shaft and its screws are 5mm, not 6mm. are you sure that is what you bought?? please make sure you got a 5mm tap, and not a 6mm!!
glad you got you TB on and running! note at the top of the instructions, it says to unplug your ECM and battery BEFORE starting the install. that is paramount, so the ecm adapts to the new TB upon start up. if you guys ever have a question, please dont heistate to call me. please take your time and follow the instructions step by step, and please read thru them to familirize yourself with the install.
here is the first page of the instructions:
Disconnect your battery and ecm BEFORE you start!!
Xmetal Billet Throttle body:
Remove the stock throttle body from vehicle, start by removing the cables, they are removed by pushing down on the plastic detainment cable end and sliding it off of the throttle linkage. Then remove the 4 mounting bolts that mount the throttle body to the intake manifold. Then remove the vacuum line from the bottom of the throttle body. Check the factory oring on the intake, and make sure it is still in its groove.
Next, remove the tps sensor using a torx t-20. ONLY TURN THE SCREWS AN 1/8 TURN AT A TIME, THEN TURN THEM BACK IN AGAIN A 1/8 TURN, do this repeatedly until you remove the screw. We do this because the factory loctite on the screws can damage the threads if you just keep backing them out with out carefully breaking up the loctite by turning the screws out a little then back in. set the Tps and its screws to side.
Removing the throttle blades:
Open the throttle all the way and using a small fine toothed file, file the backside of the throttle blade screws. From the factory they create an intentional burr on the throttle shaft threads to lock the screws into place. Some are just loctited.
We are going to file this down to make getting the screws out easy and to file the burr down so we can pull the shaft out of the throttle body. Next do the same procedure to the 4 mounting screws on the throttle blades as you did with the TPS screws. Take your time and turn the screw out a 1/8 of a turn then back in, take your time with this step!!
Now look at the throttle blades, you will notice there is a pair of stamped lips on the stock blades. These steps only allow the blades to slide in from one direction. Open the throttle blades all the way and simply pull them out of the shaft away from the steps\
Once you have the blades out. Take a finger nail file or the like and sand down both sides of the 4 bolt holes to eliminate any and all burrs!!
Run your finger over the shaft and check for burrs. If you have it all smooth then grab the shaft by the linkage assembly and pull it straight out. Use a twisting motion as you pull.
VERY IMPORTANT!---TAKE A PIECE OF SANDPAPER or A PIECE OF SCOTCHBRITE AND GENTLY SAND/POLISH THE THROTTLE SHAFT. POLISH THE SHAFT AND REMOVE AS MUCH PAINT ON THE SURFACE AND ELIMINATE ANY BURRS AND ALSO THIS WILL TAKE OFF ANY LOOSE PAINT ON THE SHAFT! MAKE SURE TO DO THIS!!
Take the X-Metal Throttle body and insert the shaft halfway into the throttle body. With the spring positioned as you see in the picture, twist the shaft to wind the spring and then slide the shaft into the throttle body the rest of the way. The spring is only wound a little bit, just from where it contacts the throttle body and the other end attaches to the throttle linkage.
You may have to use a small screw driver to pry the spring into place over the linkage. Once you have it on the linkage, push the shaft in the rest of the way. Make sure the spring’s hooked end is over the cut out tabbed area on the linkage-see picture
redtanrt10
Enthusiast
Gary,
I stand corrected, it was a 5MM tap, re-looked at the $40.00 tap kit I bought @ Lowes yesterday! (Can't price shop or find a selection of tap's on New Year's Day).
Also, you are correct with the instuctions to disconnect the ECM, we neglected to do this!
I stand corrected, it was a 5MM tap, re-looked at the $40.00 tap kit I bought @ Lowes yesterday! (Can't price shop or find a selection of tap's on New Year's Day).
Also, you are correct with the instuctions to disconnect the ECM, we neglected to do this!
wooooooooooosh, (sigh of relief!)
i was worried you used a 6mm tap!
rock on my brother!
Hey Gary. I just wanted to let you know that after several hundred miles, a new tPS and completely reseting the computer by unplugging the battery, I am still getting idle hang. Also the car idles high - around 800 or so.
To help detail the problem I took a movie of the tach while in NY traffic. You can see when I move the car slowly then push in the clutch and the rpms fall. It usually hangs at 1000 rpm for a few seconds then falls to 750 or so. Sometimes it falls below 1000 then creeps back up then 4 or 5 seconds later falls to 750 or so again. Note when you simply rev the motor with engaging the clutch it falls fine back to idle. You can see each of these instances in the movie.
I will post it shortly.
By the way I left you a message yesterday.
Thanks for your assistance.
Tom
To help detail the problem I took a movie of the tach while in NY traffic. You can see when I move the car slowly then push in the clutch and the rpms fall. It usually hangs at 1000 rpm for a few seconds then falls to 750 or so. Sometimes it falls below 1000 then creeps back up then 4 or 5 seconds later falls to 750 or so again. Note when you simply rev the motor with engaging the clutch it falls fine back to idle. You can see each of these instances in the movie.
I will post it shortly.
By the way I left you a message yesterday.
Thanks for your assistance.
Tom
fqberful
Enthusiast
I had the same issue. I took some measurements between the throttle arm and the area where the stop screw is. I then by feel backed out the set screw until the throttle plate hit the TB, then put the screw back in enough to prevent the plate from hitting. The idle problem went totally away, works really good. I measured a 0.029 gap between the arm and the housing with the stop screw in the as delivered condition and about 0.010 after my adjustment. given the production tolerances here this will have to be done by feel, but as long as you get it where the throttle plate doesn't hit the inside of the TB and is a bit more closed it should help. As I said, it completely fixed my issue which was identical to what you described.
It is critically important you have the throttle blade as perfectly centered as possible when you initially put this thing together, that's what the deal with the paper between the blade and the TB when you tighten the screws is all about.
HTH
Interesting. I am glad you figured it out. I would love to hear Gary comment on this as he mentioned not to touch the stop on the throttle body.
I did do the paper thing and it went fine. What i did notice however is there is a tiny bit of side to side movement of the blade in the throttle body itself. Did you notice that as well?
fqberful
Enthusiast
My side-to-side is a few thousands at most. I know he warns against changing that stop but if you're careful and insure you set it so the plate doesn't hit the body then a small adjustment is just that. This was my last ditch effort to fix this issue and it worked. Given the edge area of this plate, even a small gap could easily over run the the ability to compensate of the IAC. Now I'll do this prior to installing the next one.
Taking an initial measurement of the lever to the body next to the stop is an easy way to return it to the factory setting just in case and to see how much of a change you really made.
