Gen 4 ACRX Headers now available from DC Performance!
- Thread starter Dan Cragin
- Start date
All the testing done at texas motorsports ranch the a few weeks ago were done with AR HEADERS.I know ARH rushed a few sets to woodhouse for testing.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
The Laguna record 1:33 was done using the Belanger headers BTW.
I guess that record could be broken again now that they have a header that clearly makes more power then the Belangers.This fact being proven at arrow racing on the dyno.This being the reason why Chrysler has choosen these Headers to be on the acr-x and not the Belangers.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
NASTY,
The actual FACTS are a little more complicated than that so I would refrain from making such matter of fact statements. And for the record dyno numbers mean nothing in the "real world" and when the Belangers were developed (along with the Gen4 motor at Mclaren) They had to be detuned to work with the "factory" controller so you did not have to use the (non existent) Mopar PCM without getting a check engine light.
There is MUCH more on the table in the Belangers proven design if Lou decides to tune that power back into a subsequent design. He has also proven time and again that his headers in the real world will beat and 5 into one design and I'm sure if prodded he would have NO reservations about a shoot out where "dynos" mean nothing.
This is by no means a statement to offend my close friends at Arrow or SRT. They make very good business decisions and have track records to prove it. Much love to you guys.
The actual FACTS are a little more complicated than that so I would refrain from making such matter of fact statements. And for the record dyno numbers mean nothing in the "real world" and when the Belangers were developed (along with the Gen4 motor at Mclaren) They had to be detuned to work with the "factory" controller so you did not have to use the (non existent) Mopar PCM without getting a check engine light.
There is MUCH more on the table in the Belangers proven design if Lou decides to tune that power back into a subsequent design. He has also proven time and again that his headers in the real world will beat and 5 into one design and I'm sure if prodded he would have NO reservations about a shoot out where "dynos" mean nothing.
This is by no means a statement to offend my close friends at Arrow or SRT. They make very good business decisions and have track records to prove it. Much love to you guys.
NASTY,
The actual FACTS are a little more complicated than that so I would refrain from making such matter of fact statements. And for the record dyno numbers mean nothing in the "real world" and when the Belangers were developed (along with the Gen4 motor at Mclaren) They had to be detuned to work with the "factory" controller so you did not have to use the (non existent) Mopar PCM without getting a check engine light.
There is MUCH more on the table in the Belangers proven design if Lou decides to tune that power back into a subsequent design. He has also proven time and again that his headers in the real world will beat and 5 into one design and I'm sure if prodded he would have NO reservations about a shoot out where "dynos" mean nothing.
This is by no means a statement to offend my close friends at Arrow or SRT. They make very good business decisions and have track records to prove it. Much love to you guys.
I guess from your statment you have a close relationship with Belanger and will go to bat for them any time and i commend you for that.If at any time you can find in my statment were i put down Belanger I would understand your anger i never said anything derogatory about Belanger they make a excellent product for specific applications. I also know you being a smart person would never make a statment were you insist that no one could ever build a better header than Benlanger!
there is no reason to get nasty about having a great new header option
I find myself in agreement with Mark.......... nasty you are not doing your brand any favors by making blind, categorical newbie pronouncements. The process was much more complicated, and the HP incremental is not something to grandstand about.
Do not be confused,,,, the Laguna Seca 1:33.9 production car record setter was a stock motored ACR. Stock in every way including OE Cup Tires. The same streetcar that we all buy when we choose an ACR.
The ACR-X prototype was almost 3 seconds faster than the stock ACR that day! It was equipped with Belanger Headers in that prototype, as well as the prototype that amazed everyone at Sebring.....
It is a good thing for the Viper community to have header options, and many people shied away from Belanger for being too loud.... they now have another option in ARH. You need to choose your header based on several factors that are important to you..... not just a single digit HP increment. Some Factors important to a racecar may be contraindicated for a streetcar! So select your header wisely..... and be grateful for another option, from ARH.
Thanks to Dan for posting the meat and potatoes information.
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Once again i was not bashing anyones headers.I was stating facts and the actual dyno showed much better low and mid range torque and overall power then the other brand.Yes now we have a choice.
Well said Jon. There are alot of things to consider when purchasing a set of headers. M&M Performance has the only one that does not need the mopar pcm on a gen 4. The construction of all the manufacturs listed here is top notch. They will all have very similar hp numbers on a stock car. I would like to see a dyno comparison between the Belanger, American Racing, and the M&M Performance. It would have to be on the same day, same dyno, and same car to get a real number.
Different strokes for different folks. 
I'm glad we have more header options now but like everyone else I'd like to see an Apples-Apples comparison between the different headers. Peak HP/TQ increases are one measure, some folks look for that metric, others look for where the power/tq has shifted under the curve, higher RPMs/lower RPMs, etc. Things get a bit more complicated with the GenIV...i.e. Mopar PCM/No Mopar PCM, CEL, NO CEL, etc. Just the facts please.
I'm glad we have more header options now but like everyone else I'd like to see an Apples-Apples comparison between the different headers. Peak HP/TQ increases are one measure, some folks look for that metric, others look for where the power/tq has shifted under the curve, higher RPMs/lower RPMs, etc. Things get a bit more complicated with the GenIV...i.e. Mopar PCM/No Mopar PCM, CEL, NO CEL, etc. Just the facts please.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
Not mad at all and competition is good for the Viper world. I just want everyone to hear the other side also as yes I/we do have a long relationship with Belanger since he has been doing headers for the Viper a LONG time and worked very closely with SRT for most of those years.
Everyone has an opinion on what works best for material, design, size and coatings. I just did not think all the hype about being "chosen" for the ACRX was needed. Belanger never posted about all the Mclaren testing and SRT work he did before the Gen4 was even released. He just let the performance speak for itself. Maybe he just is not internet savy as you at promoting.
It takes Lou a lot more than a couple days to engineer a product though so maybe that is his real down fall. I know that if he needs to he will certainly up the ante again and keep this fight alive! Good luck to you both because as it was said competition is a good thing!
Everyone has an opinion on what works best for material, design, size and coatings. I just did not think all the hype about being "chosen" for the ACRX was needed. Belanger never posted about all the Mclaren testing and SRT work he did before the Gen4 was even released. He just let the performance speak for itself. Maybe he just is not internet savy as you at promoting.
It takes Lou a lot more than a couple days to engineer a product though so maybe that is his real down fall. I know that if he needs to he will certainly up the ante again and keep this fight alive! Good luck to you both because as it was said competition is a good thing!
Just so you understand my intent was not to bash anyone.Bye the way all those test were done same day same dyno same motor within one hour of each other. Also the AR headers are all 304 stainless steel not mild steel no need for coating.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Just because a part is "chosen" for the ACRX does not mean it is the fastest. It might be the cheapest just as easily.
The ACRX is designed to be a single class track racer. All the cars should be the same, with the difference being due to preparation, strategy and the driver.
Future testing and development will decide which header is best for your personal Viper.
Would like to see some of the Hype taken out of this offering. There is some danger in being too brash in your promotions.
Both American and Belanger have great reputations in the Viper community.
The ACRX is designed to be a single class track racer. All the cars should be the same, with the difference being due to preparation, strategy and the driver.
Future testing and development will decide which header is best for your personal Viper.
Would like to see some of the Hype taken out of this offering. There is some danger in being too brash in your promotions.
Both American and Belanger have great reputations in the Viper community.
It'd be great to see the comparisons between the headers overlayed on one dyno chart if possible. That would pretty much answer a lot of questions here. Any dyno's showing your headers on a GenII? Thanks. - Tony
The dyno graph you see on this thread was done on a chassis dyno with a 2008 viper from stock to headers no tune. The tests done at arrow racing were done on a gen three on a engine dyno.
Hi Nasty. I could not help but notice that you joined this Forum on 3/9/2010 as an enthusiast. This thread appears to contain your initial posts. Do you own a Viper? If so, is it a Gen IV? Other than reading the data in this thread, what other experience do you have with this subject? Mark Jorgensen and Jon B have extensive experience and knowledge of and with the subject matter.
The ACRX has forged pistons and an offroad controller. Whether or not the new headers have equal or added value to a stock ACR or a stock street Viper during real world track or street use remains to be determined. There is extensive real world data ( not just dyno results) with respect to the Belangers and many posts on the VCA Forums describing same. I, like a number of those above, believe that an apples to apples comparison needs to be done and not just on a dyno.
One last thing. The only hostility or anger that I perceive in any of the above posts was in your initial post and one of the follow up posts. But this should be of no surprise to you. After all, you are the one that selected your Avatar and internet handle and you chose the word NASTY.
Disclaimer. I do not have after market headers on any of my cars. I do not know Mr. Belanger other than the fact that he appears to be someone who has shown loyalty to the Viper and the VCA.
The ACRX has forged pistons and an offroad controller. Whether or not the new headers have equal or added value to a stock ACR or a stock street Viper during real world track or street use remains to be determined. There is extensive real world data ( not just dyno results) with respect to the Belangers and many posts on the VCA Forums describing same. I, like a number of those above, believe that an apples to apples comparison needs to be done and not just on a dyno.
One last thing. The only hostility or anger that I perceive in any of the above posts was in your initial post and one of the follow up posts. But this should be of no surprise to you. After all, you are the one that selected your Avatar and internet handle and you chose the word NASTY.
Disclaimer. I do not have after market headers on any of my cars. I do not know Mr. Belanger other than the fact that he appears to be someone who has shown loyalty to the Viper and the VCA.
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The coating makes a big difference for heat in the engine compartment. My personal opinion is that coated headers are the only way to go but that is just my .02
The dyno graph you see on this thread was done on a chassis dyno with a 2008 viper from stock to headers no tune. The tests that sold chrysler were done at arrow racing on a gen three on a engine dyno.By the way stainless steel headers cost more than mild steel and coating definitly wasnt the cost.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
Aren't SS headers more brittle over time with the heat generated? If you are using even "thinner" walled SS as stated will it not have a shorter life than the coated aluminized tubes? I'm not an engineer so it is an actual question for you. I also agree that the naked SS will generate a lot more under hood heat than the coated inside and out header.
ARH definitely make some nice products and as the others have said they have a great rep.
ARH definitely make some nice products and as the others have said they have a great rep.
Are those test results from Arrow available? I'm looking for a dyno chart that shows header-header comparison be it Belanger, ACRX, etc. done on GenII/GenIII/GenIV. Wishful thinking on my part. But I would think it's certainly doable on a GenIII/GenIV. Certainly someone, somewhere must've done at least a Belanger vs. ACRX header comparison on a GenIII - GenIV at some point.
BTW, Nasty if you own a Viper enter your VIN# in your profile and you'll be upgraded to "Viper Owner" here.
- Tony
Martin
Enthusiast
If someone really wants to promote a set of headers for street cars, please go out and get ARB certification so all of those people who live in emissions-controlled states (or states that are about to adopt stricter emissions regs) can buy them... Anyone can claim a few HP here or there, but what it comes down to is there is a very large community of Viper owners out there that can't buy a set unless they pass the smog **** check. First one to come out with that has a no-argument selling point to a LOT of owners...
Looks like I should chime in here as it looks like this new product thread is turning into
a forum for owners and vendors to voice their views on header design and brand loyalty. That was not my intent, but some good points have come up.
I have been involved in Viper performance since the beginning and have had the
opportunity to fit and test every Viper header that has been produced. Back in 1999 we tested 5 different types of headers on the engine dyno at Caldwell Development with very interesting results. What header you should use depends on the engine components used and how the vehicle is operated.
The 5 into 1 and Tri-Y header debate has been a hot topic among the Viper owners from the start. I remember the Belanger vs. SVSI header debates from years ago.
As an example, on our Viper Challenge racecars from years ago we used both Belanger and SVSI headers. The Belanger car would out pull the SVSI car out of the corners and the SVSI car would pull the Belanger car on the straights. Both products had their benefits.
In our shop we find the Belanger headers work best on stock engines and the 5 into 1 headers work best on built motors. One the Gen 4 production engine with the extra rpm limit and VVT we thought the ACRX header might work well. I have found the benefits of the Belanger header to be good average power and a cooler running exhaust. The benefits of a merge header is better peak power and a very nice sound.
I have had a long relationship with Belanger and Lou and support his product. I also support several other manufactures. I use what works best for the application.
The neat thing here is that there are options. As for as back to back tests and track comparisons, those are coming, but in the meantime we have two good options for the Gen 4.
a forum for owners and vendors to voice their views on header design and brand loyalty. That was not my intent, but some good points have come up.
I have been involved in Viper performance since the beginning and have had the
opportunity to fit and test every Viper header that has been produced. Back in 1999 we tested 5 different types of headers on the engine dyno at Caldwell Development with very interesting results. What header you should use depends on the engine components used and how the vehicle is operated.
The 5 into 1 and Tri-Y header debate has been a hot topic among the Viper owners from the start. I remember the Belanger vs. SVSI header debates from years ago.
As an example, on our Viper Challenge racecars from years ago we used both Belanger and SVSI headers. The Belanger car would out pull the SVSI car out of the corners and the SVSI car would pull the Belanger car on the straights. Both products had their benefits.
In our shop we find the Belanger headers work best on stock engines and the 5 into 1 headers work best on built motors. One the Gen 4 production engine with the extra rpm limit and VVT we thought the ACRX header might work well. I have found the benefits of the Belanger header to be good average power and a cooler running exhaust. The benefits of a merge header is better peak power and a very nice sound.
I have had a long relationship with Belanger and Lou and support his product. I also support several other manufactures. I use what works best for the application.
The neat thing here is that there are options. As for as back to back tests and track comparisons, those are coming, but in the meantime we have two good options for the Gen 4.
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