Gen 4 --fact or myth

[viperdrummer]

Apologies if this has been exhausted but as a new owner of an 09, I was wondering if 08 and 09 are officially considered Gen 4s. I have had all 3 Gens (2 Gen 3s) but frankly cannot see why the 08-09 versions would warrant a new designation even with the upgrades.

 

[2001ViperGTS]

Then should Gen 2s be considered a different generation from Gen 1s?

 

[alpine7822]

From what I understand, the designation actually deals with the motor. The 08s introduced the new 600hp motor. While the hood and drive-by-wire were added, the body and interior pretty much identical to the prior Gen 3s...when at CAAP, I was told they consider the 08-09 a Gen 3.5. If you are basing it on the motor only, then it is the 4th gen.

 

[Dads Toy]

wow, you have 5 vipers and are not a VCA member. I am looking forward to joining. BTW, I am very jealous.

 

[JonB]

Apologies if this has been exhausted but as a new owner of an 09, I was wondering if 08 and 09 are officially considered Gen 4s. I have had all 3 Gens (2 Gen 3s) but frankly cannot see why the 08-09 versions would warrant a new designation even with the upgrades.

You and I agree, but DODGE MARKETING (S.S.) replied in post # 29 of this thread:

http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-srt10-coupe-discussions/607736-2008-viper-gen-3-3-5-4-a-2.html

 

[1BADGTS]

Hi drummer,all you have to do is step on the gas in a Gen 4 and you will know right away LOL.

 

[albinonile]

I can honestly say my new 08 feels like a completely different car than my 04--but that was a vert and this one is a coupe.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I go by the industry norm for a description of a new vehicle or new generation. That is the body or chassis must be changed significantly. In this case the chassis is the same and the body is the same (with a new hood). I know of no car in history that was considered new based on a new powertrain alone. For example the Corvette C2 started with a 327 and ended with a 427 and was still a C2. Much bigger change.

For the Viper it seems people want to designate things for personal reasons. Whether it is to help sales (read marketing) and show newness or improve personal vehicle value (read owners). I do know that when the 2003 was started Team Viper tried to state it as "Chapter 2." That is 2nd generation. Unfortunately, so many owners used Gen 2 for the 1996 Coupe the Chapter 2 version did not hold. For the 2008 they started to call the engine the 4th generation of the engine. And that would be quite accurate as the 1992-1996, 1996-2002, 2003-2006 and 2008+ have significant differences in the engine (blocks, heads, etc).

But now that the Gen 4 name has been firmly established I reluctantly am going along with it. Consistency is also important.

This is coming from a powertrain guy (engineer in powertrain for what seems like an eternity) and someone who believes the engine is the core of an automobile.

 

[Les Quam]

My recollection is that last year when Viper engineers particpated in a Q and A on this forum they indicated that they considered it a gen 4? Owning both generations there is a dramatic difference in the engine and trans on the gen 4 over the gen 3. Gen 4, I think is the best Viper yet by a wide margin.

I also think that Porsche's 911 chassis and design remains evolutionary from each generation, yet each is considered a new generation. The 996 to 997 series really wasn't much more than a minimal body change with some HP increases yet was considered the next generation I think?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Well is a Corvette ZR1 a C7 or is it still a C6? I would say it has more difference from a 2009 C6 Corvette than a 2008 Viper has from a 2003 Viper.

From an inside perspective we designate vehicle changes as c/o (carryover), MCA (mid cycle action - which externally would be considered as a refresh), and major (new). Only major is considered a generational change. And 2008 was not a major.

 

[Les Quam]

Not being a Corvette guy I have no idea what generation the 09 ZR-1 is other than being in the ugly and very fast generation? The last Vette I owned was a 1991 ZR-1 and I haven't followed them since then. I don't have the engineering expertise to intelligently argue with anyone on this Gen 3.5 or Gen 4 issue. I was justing relaying what I remember the SRT engineers telling us last year and my own driving impressions from my 06 coupe to my 08 coupe.

 

[WANTED]

I go by the industry norm for a description of a new vehicle or new generation. That is the body or chassis must be changed significantly. In this case the chassis is the same and the body is the same (with a new hood). I know of no car in history that was considered new based on a new powertrain alone. For example the Corvette C2 started with a 327 and ended with a 427 and was still a C2. Much bigger change.

For the Viper it seems people want to designate things for personal reasons. Whether it is to help sales (read marketing) and show newness or improve personal vehicle value (read owners). I do know that when the 2003 was started Team Viper tried to state it as "Chapter 2." That is 2nd generation. Unfortunately, so many owners used Gen 2 for the 1996 Coupe the Chapter 2 version did not hold. For the 2008 they started to call the engine the 4th generation of the engine. And that would be quite accurate as the 1992-1996, 1996-2002, 2003-2006 and 2008+ have significant differences in the engine (blocks, heads, etc).

But now that the Gen 4 name has been firmly established I reluctantly am going along with it. Consistency is also important.

This is coming from a powertrain guy (engineer in powertrain for what seems like an eternity) and someone who believes the engine is the core of an automobile.

Finally someone gets it right.

 

[Makara]

From what I understand, the designation actually deals with the motor. The 08s introduced the new 600hp motor. While the hood and drive-by-wire were added, the body and interior pretty much identical to the prior Gen 3s...when at CAAP, I was told they consider the 08-09 a Gen 3.5. If you are basing it on the motor only, then it is the 4th gen.

Well why don't we call it generation 2 then because if just going by exterior, the gen Is and the gen IIs were pretty close other than the hood, exhaust, and wheels? So that would make the 2003s Gen IIs.

I consider them to be Gen IVs because I like the 08s and 09s but think the 03s-06s are butt ugly

 

[black mamba1]

Gen 4. Gen 3 looks similar, but thats where the resemblance ends. Gen 4 is new engine, new drive by wire, new tranny, etc. Totally different car. And much better than Gen 3. If all Dodge did was add better gearing and changed the intake, ok, u have a Gen 3.5....but the 08+ Vipers are totally different (much better) animals, and their test data confirms that in every cateragory.

 

[bluesrt]

i have a 08,in these shakey times they are cheating on the new generation car,its a gen 3 in my opinion with some nice upgrades.arnt new generations come with differant styled interiors and body? like a 82 corvette and a 84,now thats a new generation

 

[bluesrt]

Gen 4. Gen 3 looks similar, but thats where the resemblance ends. Gen 4 is new engine, new drive by wire, new tranny, etc. Totally different car. And much better than Gen 3. If all Dodge did was add better gearing and changed the intake, ok, u have a Gen 3.5....but the 08+ Vipers are totally different (much better) animals, and their test data confirms that in every cateragory.

a 84 corvette and a 89 corvette are the same generation,if u drive a 84 and then a 89,u will throw bullets at a 84..

 

[bluesrt]

I am a new owner of a 2009. I love it. I have driven a 2005 vert and a 2006 coupe. I can tell you I think there is a big difference between the Gen III and Gen IV.

The whole car feels more refined and the was what I was after when buying the 2009. When I bought the 2009 I wanted a 600hp stock car that is in its 2nd year of production to avoid first year hiccups from the manufacturer. My vote is call it anything you like but the car is definitely a different driver in terms of 2005 or 2006. Like anything it has just gotten better. The 2003-2006 Gen III's are great cars no doubt. The 2008 and 2009 have just matured a bit in a proven chassis.

good words bro!!!!

 

[albinonile]

all right--it is on----the gen 3s vs the gen 4s out in the parking lot at 3pm----no blades and I have ponyboy and sodapop curtis on my side---lets do this for Johnny!!

 

[black mamba1]

a 84 corvette and a 89 corvette are the same generation,if u drive a 84 and then a 89,u will throw bullets at a 84..

I had an 88 Vette. Yeah, the 84 had Crossfire injection, the 85 had Tune Port w/ iron heads, then from 86 onward, TPI w/ aluminum heads. But Vettes and Vipes are two different animals. The only resemblence w/ the 84 and 89 are the bodies. And thats the only resemblence w/ the Gen 3 and Gen 4 Vipers. This argument is similar to how many angels can you fit on the head of a pin.

It really boils down to nomenclature. It is whatever we say it is. Even w/ in the Gen 3 series, the 03 is different than the 04, which is different than the 05's and 06's. The differences are subtle, but they are there.

 

[GR8_ASP]

BM1 I agree, but it is also important to maintain some level of consistency from make to make and model to model. I am not aware of any other manufacturer (or press for that matter) that would call an engine or driveline change generational. Body and chassis are the 2 core things which drive a new generation. And that does not include minor improvements like shock and rolll bar characteristics.

And as to the angel comment that would only apply is there was a fairly standardized method of determining the number of angels on the head of a pin. This is not the first car.

 

[bluesrt]

BM1 I agree, but it is also important to maintain some level of consistency from make to make and model to model. I am not aware of any other manufacturer (or press for that matter) that would call an engine or driveline change generational. Body and chassis are the 2 core things which drive a new generation. And that does not include minor improvements like shock and rolll bar characteristics.

And as to the angel comment that would only apply is there was a fairly standardized method of determining the number of angels on the head of a pin. This is not the first car.

very well stated,i totally agree

 

[black mamba1]

Gr8 always out-thinks me! So, if we remove the Gen 4 title for the 08's and after, should we eliminate the Gen 2 label from the Gen 1? It would seem to me we would have to. Vettes are mass produced like cup cakes, so numerous changes w/in the same model designation is to be expected. But Vipers are hand built and are limited edition.....soo....does that mean the standard is 3 angels per pin-head? Or two...if both are overweight?