Gen 5 mandated nannies

[PDCjonny]

Here's a question.
The Gen 5 will have mandatory nanny systems as we all know.
And we assume they will be overridable.

So you get in a serious accident. (God Forbid)
Insurance company/police investigator checks onboard computers and discover you had all the nannies shut off.
I'd say your going to get screwed.

And sued for driving the car on the street in a driver chosen unsafe manner.
Imagine pleading innocent in front of a jury but you had all factory nstalled safeties OFF.

So in effect this will basically force you to have nannies on at all times on the street?

 

[Canyon707]

What would be the problem with that. Or do you race on the streets? I think not.....

 

[C.Hermsen]

That will not be the case.
Every other sports car on this planet has over ridable nannies, and no has has ever gotten in trouble for turning them off.

 

[PDCjonny]

What would be the problem with that. Or do you race on the streets? I think not.....

Oh yeah that's right.
No Viper owners ever drive aggressively or street race.
They would always leave the nannies on...

 

[1.8t]

Take off the tin foil hat. I came from the C6Z world and this was a passing fad over there too as those cars had onstar which had the ability to pull data such as speed whenever they chose. So let's say you get into an accident and you don't have an onstar membership. Theoretically, the insurance company could still ask onstar to pull this information and provide it to them. The reality is this does not and will not happen. The computers aren't there as witnesses, they are there as safeguards. Laws will have to be passed to make this kind of thing admissible in court.

 

[Canyon707]

Not saying that would be the case just saying it's only a button away either way you go. I don't street race. Although I have but it became very expensive. Lesson learned.. Fortunately I live near a track. the last CHP told me drive there or nowhere. I got what he was saying. They seem to see you way before you see them.

 

[viperdrummer]

Most cars I have currently have the option of turning off things like traction control and so long as the manufacturer allows it it is probably not an issue. If that changes and you as an owner have affirmatively taken steps to overside safety features I suspect you would be liable to the extent any of your injuries were enhanced by the lack of working safety features. Still a tough argument for insurer.

Where you are really at risk is with a passenger. If a passeneger were maimed or killed and it was later learned that you disconnected safety features you are up sh#t creek. Hell, I tell folks not to even take the annoying airbag stickers off visors.

 

[PDCjonny]

Take off the tin foil hat. I came from the C6Z world and this was a passing fad over there too as those cars had onstar which had the ability to pull data such as speed whenever they chose. So let's say you get into an accident and you don't have an onstar membership. Theoretically, the insurance company could still ask onstar to pull this information and provide it to them. The reality is this does not and will not happen. The computers aren't there as witnesses, they are there as safeguards. Laws will have to be passed to make this kind of thing admissible in court.

*** are you talking about? Not talking about Onstar.
There have been plenty of cases where in accident reenactment scenarios they have pulled the information from a cars onboard computer to calculate speed at impact and other factors.
They can even tell when and if the driver applied brakes etc. Not there as witnesses? Does not and will not happen??? Hardly.

 

[MarcRoth]

Nanny or no Nanny.... They have been there for years on other models, do you think it is going to make a different in court ? Your looking way to far into it. Look at air bag info and the famous "black box " I would be more nervous about talking on a cell phone.

 

[bluesrt]

you cannot get in trouble for turning off the nannies,but you can get in trouble for ****ing something up.

 

[redtanrt10]

John, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know all the new rules with privacy or the cases involving reviewing the on-board computers.

But, I recently retired from an auto company, where the on-board computer definately comes into play is if you blame/sue the manufacturer claiming the car caused the wreck. For example, if you say the throttle stuck open and the car was defective, they can then defend themselves and look at the on-board. (You may or not believe how many people blame the car for their mistakes). Remember the Prius guy in San Diego that made national news calling 911 and saying the throttle was stuck on the freeway. Eventuallly, since he blamed Toyota, they examined the on-board and found that he tapped the brakes 200 plus times but never really tried to stop with the brakes. Long story short, because he went after the manufacture they could examine the computer.

I think if you turn off stability control, get the car sideways and hit someone there's no extra penalty. Mike

 

[PDCjonny]

I'm just paranoid.....LOL
If I recall, didn't virtually every instance of a claimed defect involving a Toyota be proved false?

 

[redtanrt10]

I'm just paranoid.....LOL
If I recall, didn't virtually every instance of a claimed defect involving a Toyota be proved false?

Yeah, I think so. I also remember the housekeeper up your way that ran her bosses Prius into a stone wall, turned out to be BS too.

 

[1.8t]

*** are you talking about? Not talking about Onstar.
There have been plenty of cases where in accident reenactment scenarios they have pulled the information from a cars onboard computer to calculate speed at impact and other factors.
They can even tell when and if the driver applied brakes etc. Not there as witnesses? Does not and will not happen??? Hardly.

Jesus your dense. The onstar was an EXAMPLE. I thought you might use that thing between your ears and see that, but I guess I must continue to spell it out. "Plenty of cases where accident reenactment scenarios have pulled information to CALCULATE speed" - Um the computer will tell you exactly the speed at impact, no need for calculating. However, any accident scene investigator has always and will always be able to calculate speed, when the brakes where applied, etc. This has NOTHING to do with your computers.

Please provide proof of your plenty of examples.

 

[PDCjonny]

Here you go noob.
You've been here a month, and already proved your useless.
Do a search for black boxes and police prosecution, took all of two minutes...

http://govpro.com/fleets/gov_imp_43417/

Going back to 2003 black box info used in court; http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/blackbox/

http://www.allvoices.com/news/5542539-police-learn-to-use-black-boxes-to-analyze-crashes

Black boxes give police and lawyers information to prosecute: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/833768/posts

Police use black box to prosecute man: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in Government/Police State/cars_spying_on_drivers.htm

So now that you look like a fool, will you be joining the VCA or just mooch off the website?

 

[SBMIANO]

Dont buy a 2013 and stick with the raw one. Go out and have at it!!!!! Get some work done boys your companies are losing money by the minute.

 

[vdogg]

Bring on all the nannies! This would make the Viper much more streetable. I have 08' ACR and rarely drive it on the street, never let anyone else drive it, etc because of no nannies. The car is dangerous w/o a lot of common sense and the right conditions. On the other hand, my '11 CTS-V has excellent nannies and is a joy to drive on the street. Just make sure they can all be disabled so we can track the car properly.

 

[Dom426h]

Jon, i dont understand the point in this thread. Why would you try to predict something that has already happend.

If you want to know the question to this answer with real world experiences than simply ask the guys over on the Vette forums.
There are plenty of guys with Vettes(and several other makes) that the first thing they do after starting the car up is turn Off the tractioncontrll and/or other nannies.

 

[PDCjonny]

Bring on all the nannies! This would make the Viper much more streetable. I have 08' ACR and rarely drive it on the street, never let anyone else drive it, etc because of no nannies. The car is dangerous w/o a lot of common sense and the right conditions. On the other hand, my '11 CTS-V has excellent nannies and is a joy to drive on the street. Just make sure they can all be disabled so we can track the car properly.

Oh boy.

Is that you Chuck RT/10 using an AE?

 

[PDCjonny]

Jon, i dont understand the point in this thread. Why would you try to predict something that has already happend.

If you want to know the question to this answer with real world experiences than simply ask the guys over on the Vette forums.
There are plenty of guys with Vettes(and several other makes) that the first thing they do after starting the car up is turn Off the tractioncontrll and/or other nannies.

Sorry, I guess the point was that since the Viper is transitioning to the nannies in 2013, whether someone could be held liable in a lawsuit more readily if it was proven they had all the nannies turned off at the time. Since it could be proven with the black box they were off at the time, I would think that could be exploited in a law suit or criminally.

More of a general question about nannies I guess.

There have been several cases here on Long Island where black box evidence was introduced.

 

[TrackAire]

Any accident that involves serious injury or death, the vehicle needs to be put in a locked and non accessable location asap. If you have any personal wealth or assets and somebody gets hurt or killed in an accident (even if it was not your fault), immediately have the car taken to a mini storage or other lockable location where only you have access. The local impound yard is not safe, even if the owners/cops claim it is off limits to everyone. Any vehicle with an OBDII system has the potential to give up information. During the Prius b.s., Toyota claimed they only had two laptops in all of the USA that had the ability to download the data, so it was very difficult for them to examine all the cars that had these unattend acceleration claims (convenient, huh??)


You guys with the nanny fears kill me. The reality is this, 99% of us on this board could not beat a professional race car driver on a road course if we turned the nannies off and he left the nannies on. If you were that good, you wouldn't be posting on this board, you'd be a paid professional race car driver.

During the Bondurant driving school, the Grand Sport Corvettes had the nannies turned on.....if I hit the apexes correctly and did everything right, I didn't even know they were there. But if I missed an apex or did something stupid, they'd kick in. A pro diver would probably be faster in the dry with the nannies turned off, but it would be interesting to see what setting they would select if the nannies were adjustable (like on the Ferrari 599 GTO) and they had to race in the rain.

Cheers,
George

 

[1.8t]

Here you go noob.
You've been here a month, and already proved your useless.
Do a search for black boxes and police prosecution, took all of two minutes...

http://govpro.com/fleets/gov_imp_43417/

Going back to 2003 black box info used in court; http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/blackbox/

http://www.allvoices.com/news/5542539-police-learn-to-use-black-boxes-to-analyze-crashes

Black boxes give police and lawyers information to prosecute: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/833768/posts

Police use black box to prosecute man: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in Government/Police State/cars_spying_on_drivers.htm

So now that you look like a fool, will you be joining the VCA or just mooch off the website?

Oh no, tough internet warrior calls me a noob.

http://govpro.com/fleets/gov_imp_43417/ - This tells you NOTHING about the circumstances that this information was used.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/blackbox/ - This pertains to Canada.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/833768/posts - "Crash investigator Sergeant Dave Leitman uses the new technology to pinpoint a dead driver's actions". The accident involved a fatality.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in Government/Police State/cars_spying_on_drivers.htm - "Sheryar Qamar, 20, of Michigan City, was charged Tuesday with reckless homicide, criminal recklessness with a vehicle, causing the death of another person while operating a motor vehicle, drunken driving, underage drinking and five other offenses. " - Another fatality accdient. Witness accounts and the drivers account were 2 different stories. Said black box was used as the differential.

See the trend here? If you severly injur or kill someone or yourself, then they *might* use this information if there is conflicting information...and they most certainly should. You make it out like this if the first thing any cop is going to ask for. Better yet, why the hell did you even post this thread if your answer existed from a 2 minute search?

If this means of gathering data is to become the norm and not just used under extreme circumstances, laws WILL have to be passed as I have said. Hell, they even say this in the links you have provided.

And yes, I will gladly mooch off of the website as I am well within my right to do so and almost every other enthusiest website is free.

 

[Paul Hawker]

From a different perspective. I would not be surprised to learn that the next generation Viper is not faster with the electric enhancements turned on than off.

The SRT guys are pretty performance oriented. Electronic enhancements can be skewed towards slowing the car down for safety, or making it even faster when engaged.

Traction control can make launching a high HP car much easier and more consistent.

Electronics can be used to optimize limited slip differentials, or to subtly apply braking to just one front wheel to straighten out a potential spin. My Jeep has electronic sway control to stop dangerous trailer oscillations. Never know it is there till you need it, then it just does its job, and turns itself off when the sway is under driver control.

I personally believe that the use of electronic performance enhancements will make the new Viper faster around most courses than we can drive them without engagement.

A well designed launch control can eliminate that all too common embarrassment of going up in smoke against another driver.

 

[PDCjonny]

It hasn't hurt the GTR any, that car can run the ring without a driver.

 

[viperdrummer]

It hasn't hurt the GTR any, that car can run the ring without a driver.

as long as you don't have to look at it.

 

[Flexx91]

Sorry, I guess the point was that since the Viper is transitioning to the nannies in 2013, whether someone could be held liable in a lawsuit more readily if it was proven they had all the nannies turned off at the time. Since it could be proven with the black box they were off at the time, I would think that could be exploited in a law suit or criminally.

Criminally, probably not as there is no legistlation to support criminal negligence or worst by disabling a feature that can be disabled. In a civil case maybe but the plantiff will have a difficult time proving negligence on your part and also proving that the disabling of the feature (which is allowed to be disabled) "directly" contributed to the accident.

 

[Timnineside]

It hasn't hurt the GTR any, that car can run the ring without a driver.

AGREED! Keep in mind the GTR comes with a "Black Box" installed. A friend of mine has one, and voided his warranty because he raced it using race mode, and something with his launch control. Needless to say 20K wasted cuz the company offers BS that they know will break.

Point, I think everything will be okay, but take blame where it is due. Keep in mind DOT tires etc, and if they can put it on a car, someone can take it off! Insurance companies will always try to find ways to rip people off.

 

[Shandon]

Any accident that involves serious injury or death, the vehicle needs to be put in a locked and non accessable location asap. If you have any personal wealth or assets and somebody gets hurt or killed in an accident (even if it was not your fault), immediately have the car taken to a mini storage or other lockable location where only you have access. The local impound yard is not safe, even if the owners/cops claim it is off limits to everyone. Any vehicle with an OBDII system has the potential to give up information. During the Prius b.s., Toyota claimed they only had two laptops in all of the USA that had the ability to download the data, so it was very difficult for them to examine all the cars that had these unattend acceleration claims (convenient, huh??)


You guys with the nanny fears kill me. The reality is this, 99% of us on this board could not beat a professional race car driver on a road course if we turned the nannies off and he left the nannies on. If you were that good, you wouldn't be posting on this board, you'd be a paid professional race car driver.

During the Bondurant driving school, the Grand Sport Corvettes had the nannies turned on.....if I hit the apexes correctly and did everything right, I didn't even know they were there. But if I missed an apex or did something stupid, they'd kick in. A pro diver would probably be faster in the dry with the nannies turned off, but it would be interesting to see what setting they would select if the nannies were adjustable (like on the Ferrari 599 GTO) and they had to race in the rain.

Cheers,
George

I did the bondurants grand prix and found the nannies on the corvett a royal pia! I would put the car into understeer on purpose coming out of the corner and it would just crap out. Im not a pro but i am a track rat. Nannies will slow you on a track when you get to the piont your pushing the car anywhere near its limits. On the street i see no reason to ever turn them off. It doesnt make anyone less of a man to have added safety. On a track i believe its a crutch for anyone trying to learn true car control.

 

[PatentLaw]

Computer information is utilized all the time in serious accidents. You can say that it is not all that you want, but you don't know what you are talking about. Unfortunately, I have personal experience with it.

If your experience is different, then maybe you might want to get a new lawyer or a clue.

Believe me, when 7 or 8 figures is on the line, every piece of data is and will be used.

As far as the insurance companies goes, I would assume that they will price out the policy with you always defeating the safety feature. If you use it, then it is to their advantage. This is just common sense. Just saying....

Then again.....I am just an enthusiast, so what the heck do I know.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

We have three times as many lawyers as any other country on Earth. And more than half the politicians are lawyers (talk about a conflict of interest). There is no doubt, that group of oppressive liberty-stifling unethical, lying, greedy **** will continue to eat away at people's freedom "in the name of safety" because "no expense is too great for safety." Used to be there was no expense too great for freedom, but that was a long time ago.

Take a look at this board and all those who have no problem with nannies as long as they can be turned off. Way to go. It's those guys that opened the door not me.