Gen III heads on a Gen II

[FATHERFORD]

If there is a thread somewhere that gives more detail then please link..

Stock for stock will I see a gain in power?

If I ever decided to get some work done to the gen 3 heads will they outperform ported Gen 2 heads?

Does any port matching work need to be done to the intake?

Are the exhaust ports on the heads the same so my current long tubes just bolt up?

Gen 3 heads require Gen 3 valve covers?

Any more info would be helpful... Thanks

 

[plumcrazy]

yes but then there are other problems. i know ya need a gen3 intake and i think there's an issue with bolts for the headers or something

 

[FATHERFORD]

yes but then there are other problems. i know ya need a gen3 intake and i think there's an issue with bolts for the headers or something

From a little reading I know the gen2 intake can work if a little port matching is involved. And that there are "claims" they have more potential.

Interesting on the headers.. I wonder what all is different.

 

[ViperTony]

I'd contact Greg Good and ask him his opinion on this. I don't think anyone knows heads better than Greg. If it were me...I'd take off my GenII and send them to Greg to let him do his magic.

 

[plumcrazy]

i agree, call greg. he knows the answer for sure.

and honestly, why not just port the gen2's you have already ?

 

[chimazo]

You can use the GEN2 intake with the GEN3 heads, as you indicated, but from what I was told, the problem is that the power steering mount is integral (cast-in bolt holes) to the heads of GEN2 and not GEN3, though I don't know if that is just a matter of drilling & tapping the driver-side head or not.

I'm guessing if that was all there was to it, more would have done it, because the GEN3 heads account for most of their power increase (not the small increase in cubes). They have 1.7 roller rockers (though not roller tipped), and I'm 99% sure they also have a larger intake valve, plus supposedly better ports.

 

[FATHERFORD]

i agree, call greg. he knows the answer for sure.

and honestly, why not just port the gen2's you have already ?

Because I might be able to get some gen 3 heads for nothing. Just exploring my options. I'll have to give greg a call.

You can use the GEN2 intake with the GEN3 heads, as you indicated, but from what I was told, the problem is that the power steering mount is integral (cast-in bolt holes) to the heads of GEN2 and not GEN3, though I don't know if that is just a matter of drilling & tapping the driver-side head or not.

Interesting.

I'm guessing if that was all there was to it, more would have done it, because the GEN3 heads account for most of their power increase (not the small increase in cubes). They have 1.7 roller rockers (though not roller tipped), and I'm 99% sure they also have a larger intake valve, plus supposedly better ports.

Yeah, from what I had read, is the gen 3 heads full ported should put out "50rwhp" more then gen 2's full ported.

I'm just weighing my options here.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Is there an easy reference to this 50 hp benefit? I ask because the cam phasing feature on the Gen 3 adds to the top-end breathing due to lobe timing; being a lowly Gen 1 owner I haven't kept up with any OEM porting improvements (worth 50 hp, anyway.)

 

[FATHERFORD]

Well I read that somewhere, either on this forum or the alley. The threaded ended though before any true evidence came about.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

I don't know about gaining 50 hp over a really good set of Gen 2's, but the cfm gain is potentially 30 cfm on the intake side. 305 cfm for the Gen 2 and 335 cfm for the Gen 3. I guess on a boosted car the gain would be 50. But not on an N/A car imo.

Tony Armour and I did a set of Gen 3 heads for his 96 Blue/White.

You can retain the Gen 2 intake. It bolts right up. But the header bolt pattern on 3 cylinders of each side are different than the Gen 2. We fixed that by welding the outside of the head and drilling/tapping new header bolt holes where needed. Some space/adaptor plates could be made instead.

Then some bosses need to be spun out on a lathe and welded onto the front of the drivers side head to mount the power steering pump. Tony has a jig for that (actually it's sitting in my shop).

It's not a really hard mod. You can get 30 more cfm and the castings are plentiful. The port walls are much thicker than a Gen 2, I know that.

 

[1TONY1]

It's not a really hard mod.

It wasn't real hard for me....I built the jig. Greg is probably way understating the work he did to convert these over. Welding, drilling, tapping welding some more etc. etc.

Also you need a place for the water temp sensor and some year models have a water ****** on the back of the pass head....mine did...other years it is blocked off and goes to the front of the engine.

 

[FATHERFORD]

So in other words, unless one was to do all the work their self, it really wouldn't be worth it for an n/a motor?

Still might need to be something for me to look into.

 

[plumcrazy]

i bet greg can talk you out of it. he does some good work on these gen2 heads and for a very decent price. call him and ask.

and tony, WHY would YOU go thru all that work by the way ? whats the benefit for YOU with the way you are going ?

 

[1TONY1]

i bet greg can talk you out of it. he does some good work on these gen2 heads and for a very decent price. call him and ask.

and tony, WHY would YOU go thru all that work by the way ? whats the benefit for YOU with the way you are going ?

This was back in 2006....Everybody going one way, I tend to go the other
doesn't always turn out very well but I like to be different

As some other Roe guys can attest....maybe it worked out this time

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

So in other words, unless one was to do all the work their self, it really wouldn't be worth it for an n/a motor?

Still might need to be something for me to look into.

It depends on what your hp goal is. That would determine if you NEED better heads than can be made from Gen 2 castings.

If you're willing to do some of the work yourself, like install the power steering pads, you could save some money on the job.

But with Striker heads out there, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me to throw a bunch of money into a factory casting anymore, *unless* you want something that is unique. By the time you figured everything up between going Strikers or modifying Gen 3's, I'd bet the difference wouldn't justify doing the Gen 3's.

Maybe I'm getting lazy? Maybe just tired, and I'm still at work this late.

 

[FATHERFORD]

Well thanks for all the input Greg. I think you talked me out of doing the swap.


I was trying to look for a "cheap" budget swap for me, but it looks like it's just not worth it now.

 

[ollikoi]

This is my solution

 

[NI-KA]

This is a really old thread. More recent info out there.

Not sure what the picture of the stock headers means.

Or are confusing headers with valve heads?

 

[WDW MKR]

This is a really old thread. More recent info out there.

Not sure what the picture of the stock headers means.

Or are confusing headers with valve heads?

He modified his manifolds to match the GEN3 bolt pattern.

 

[WDW MKR]

NI-KA, your PM box is full. Trying to send you a message.

 

[NI-KA]

Gotcha on the modified bolt pattern.

Leave me a message by clicking on my tag - NI-KA and check yours as well - left message there.

 

[NI-KA]

that is to say go to the "view profile"